Steampunk Vehicle Question

[devlin1]

That's great-- exactly what we were looking for in terms of clarification on the small vehicles. I agree that they should be built as personal equipment. Any ideas on how to add locomotive capability to personal equipment? Under the published rules, they're not allowed.

And what about those extra HS on the bicycle? What do you think of the Cramped deficiency to eliminate HS?

You'll have to forgive me; I'm a dyed-in-the-wool HERO gamer, and all these numbers and options are to me as shiny, jangling keys are to an infant.

 

[Coyotzin]

That's great-- exactly what we were looking for in terms of clarification on the small vehicles. I agree that they should be built as personal equipment. Any ideas on how to add locomotive capability to personal equipment? Under the published rules, they're not allowed.

That would depend... you could install a Feat on the skates to give the wearer the Run feat and make a judgement call that installing it multiple times would increase the speed at which the character moves.

For flight, you can install a Magic Effect to cheat a little.

One limitation on flying jetpacks is that they are more in the realm of pulp than steampunk; such machines would have to be big and unwieldy to keep to the flavour of the genre, which is one reason I limited the size of a vehicle's rider.

And what about those extra HS on the bicycle? What do you think of the Cramped deficiency to eliminate HS?

It's a solution, but like others have said, just because you have HS to spare doesn't mean you must use them. Like the rest of the system, HS are a loose guideline, this time representing the maximum amount of stuff you can insert into a machine of a given size category (note, it's size category, not actual physical size).

 

[devlin1]

That would depend... you could install a Feat on the skates to give the wearer the Run feat and make a judgement call that installing it multiple times would increase the speed at which the character moves.

For flight, you can install a Magic Effect to cheat a little.

These are both interesting solutions... I'll look into that. Thanks! I especially like the Magic Effect for Flight.

One limitation on flying jetpacks is that they are more in the realm of pulp than steampunk; such machines would have to be big and unwieldy to keep to the flavour of the genre, which is one reason I limited the size of a vehicle's rider.

Oh, I'm not talking about jetpacks-- I want big ornithopter wings attached to a large, bulky harness.

That is, my character wants them. I personally would be scared poopless of them.

It's a solution, but like others have said, just because you have HS to spare doesn't mean you must use them. Like the rest of the system, HS are a loose guideline, this time representing the maximum amount of stuff you can insert into a machine of a given size category (note, it's size category, not actual physical size).

I can feel my HERO training surging forth here, but if a machine is limited in some way-- say, it's smaller than other machines in its size category or has no room for cargo-- shouldn't there be a proportionate break in its costs? IMO, a bicycle should be easier to build than a car, even if they're both Large vehicles (although I question whether a vehicle such as a bicycle, which is generally smaller and lighter than its rider, should be considered Large).

In case I haven't said this already, I like the Amazing Machine creation rules and have had a lot of fun seeing what I could do with them. It's great to have the author himself on hand to help sort things like these out. I know we could just house rule everything, but I'd rather have the author's opinion first. I'm anal retentive that way....

 

[Coyotzin]

Oh, I'm not talking about jetpacks-- I want big ornithopter wings attached to a large, bulky harness.

Hmmm... ok; you can bend the rules and have the hapless wearer of such a contraption be its power source, and thus it occupies the slots reserved for a power source instead of those of a passenger/rider.

I can feel my HERO training surging forth here, but if a machine is limited in some way-- say, it's smaller than other machines in its size category or has no room for cargo-- shouldn't there be a proportionate break in its costs? IMO, a bicycle should be easier to build than a car, even if they're both Large vehicles (although I question whether a vehicle such as a bicycle, which is generally smaller and lighter than its rider, should be considered Large).

You have a point, but if you want to build a bycicle... well, use the normal Craft (mechanical) skill since a bycicle is not an Amazing Machine. A self-powered bycicle is one, and you can take two roads: do it with the rules as they are, or add a special feature to the normal bike. One of the many casualties of editorial cuts was rules to add Amazing Machine qualities to ordinary equipment in the Equipment and Wealth chapter.

In brief, add the CP cost of the feature to the item's purchase DC (if you're buying it from a crazy scientist ) or add it to the appropriate Craft DC and base materials' purchase DC. Normal items can accomodate only one or two special features, under the GM's judgement.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Welcome to mad science

Well, each size category covers a wide range of actual physical dimensions. A bycicle would be Large, but is on the lowest end of the Large scale opposite a steam-powered battle armor that is bordering on Huge, which also explains why a horse and a lion are both Large creatures too.

No, I have to disagree, a bicycle is on the lower end of Medium, let alone Large.

I think it is what is called in the world of Mad Science a 'mistake'. So I am dropping the mimimum size for a medium sized creature to a medium sized vehicle. To call a bicycle 'Large' is just plain silly, let alone roller skates.

The Auld Grump, 'course you might have been joking, but I do not actually have a sense of humor - merely an emulator.(and that version is a beta...)

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

Oh, I'm not talking about jetpacks-- I want big ornithopter wings attached to a large, bulky harness.

Hmmm... ok; you can bend the rules and have the hapless wearer of such a contraption be its power source, and thus it occupies the slots reserved for a power source instead of those of a passenger/rider.

Actually, one of the power sources is "work", which would really mean that the rider *is* the power source, right? No bending necessary.

BTW, thanks Coyotzin for chiming in on this thread! It will help in our game immensely! I'll be GMing devlin1. I gots me hands full!

 

[Coyotzin]

No, I have to disagree, a bicycle is on the lower end of Medium, let alone Large.

Thing is... my bycicle takes up more storage space than a big dog... remember that size categories are not about dimensions or even about mass, they are about general space. At least for the Amazing Machines system, I envisioned the 5-foot squares occupied by the machine rather than its dimensions.

I think it is what is called in the world of Mad Science a 'mistake'. So I am dropping the mimimum size for a medium sized creature to a medium sized vehicle. To call a bicycle 'Large' is just plain silly, let alone roller skates.

That is, of course, another solution, although no one called roller skates "Large"

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Let us take a look at a few of the creatures called 'Medium' in D20 and OGL. Bicycles still come under that heading. (A pony is 'medium', and a bike is much smaller than a pony. And a medium creature can ride a pony, so it seems like a work around with some evidence behind it to say that medium creatures can ride medium vehicles.A riding dog - (described as collies, huskies, and St Bernards are also medium. As are donkeys. And black bears. You can consider your bicycle large, but the evidence is against it.)

The Auld Grump

 

[Coyotzin]

Gah! You're completely right and my head was somewhere else.

Still, the purpose for the size limitation on vehicles was to account for all sort of clunky machinery; an ordinary bike would be Medium, right, but a tinkered over bycicle with a voltaic battery, autodirectional handle and a compensational gyrocorrector would become rather largish.

Or not, and it's one of the areas where the rules become fuzzy and you can make that bycicle as normal equipment and give it locomotion; to tell the truth I wasn't thinking about bycicles when I came up with the rules (partly because I was going to add that part about putting special features on ordinary equipment).

 

[TheAuldGrump]

'Sokay. I did a little Googling on motorcycles and powered bicycles and came across this... http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcmuseum/firstbike.html

The thing has iron tires! (Ouch.) But it was built in 1869 - a good time for a steampunk setting. Judging by the saddle it is still medium, though I do wonder about penny-farthing bicycles, some of those would if taken with the rider at least brush the large category. But I think for the most part large vehicles and larger are best with at least 3 wheels. (Penny-farthings were notoriously dangerous. Enough so that the proper name for what we picture as a bicycle today is 'Safety Bicycle', and was considered different enough from the previous penny-farthing design to win a seperate patent.)

Modern motorcycles cover the range between medium and large.

The Auld Grump