Steampunk Vehicle Question

[devlin1]

First of all, I recently got OGL Steampunk and think it's great. Now, my question.

I'd like to make a small vehicle that only seats one person, but it doesn't look like this can be done. Size Large vehicles end up with too many hard points (i.e., extra space) to seem small enough, and a Size Medium character, by definition, can't go anywhere in a Size Medium vehicle (since although he may able to fit, the rules specifically state that a character the same size category as his vehicle would be too heavy for said vehicle to move). I considered building a piece of personal equipment instead, but that doesn't allow for any sort of locomotion.

So how do you build a one-man submersible? Clockwork-powered rollerskates? A flying vehicle that's little more than a large pair of wings? These things seem to fit the genre, IMO, but I don't see a way they could be built.

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

Here's the rule for Passengers:

Vehicles can accomodate 1 additional occupant of two size categories smaller than the vehicle per unoccupied hard slot. The amount of room taken up by occupants smaller than this is halved for each size category smaller yet that they are. Vehicles require two hard slots per occupant of one size category smaller and double this for each size category larger. A structure cannot accomodate occupants of the same size category or larger than itself. It could but it would not move.

The clock-work powered rollerskates (and the pair of wings too) seem to me like they have to be personal equipment. I would house-rule that personal equipment be allowed certain modes of locomotion, depending on circumstance and GM approval. The rollerskates and wings don't need room for passengers, they just need straps. This would apply to something like the motorized skate-boards and foot scooters they have nowadays too.

Re: the one-man submersible... If a man is considered medium, I would think it would have to be at least large sized. The man needs to fit; then you'd also need room for the engine and the mode of locomotion and the air-supply and all that. In which case, the rules still work for that. Ain't no way you could make a medium sized submersible that could fit a medium sized man and still have it do everything it had to do.

 

[devlin1]

Thanks for the reply, but I can't shake this feeling that we could be having this conversation in person, what with you being the GM and all.

(That's just a little aside for the zero other people reading this thread.)

I guess part of my confusion is this: what is "Large"? How is that defined? The one-man submersible, f'rinstance, would be pretty big at Large. It'd have a couple leftover Hard Slots, which means leftover space. That's my issue with a one-man ornithopter, as well. IMO, there should be a deficiency to handle that, something like "Cramped," which would lower the base Hard Slots for a vehicle.

I mean, you know how much I like to limit my characters. If my supposedly one-man vehicle could still carry 32 pounds of cargo, I just couldn't sleep at night!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Well, it's at least 1 person higher than 0...

I ran into a similar problem while trying to design a parachute.

The Auld Grump

 

[devlin1]

Well, it's at least 1 person higher than 0...

I ran into a similar problem while trying to design a parachute.

The Auld Grump

Did you happen to hit upon a solution there?

I'm having HERO flashbacks. Or flashsideways, I guess.

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

Thanks for the reply, but I can't shake this feeling that we could be having this conversation in person, what with you being the GM and all.

Why should we do that when we can be all impersonal and distant on the internet?

I guess part of my confusion is this: what is "Large"? How is that defined?

I'm assuming that they're using the default creatures sizes for how big the object is. On page 171, there's a chart for sizes, and it gives you a relative example for each. Although the example for Large is Lion. Are lions that much bigger than humans?

The one-man submersible, f'rinstance, would be pretty big at Large. It'd have a couple leftover Hard Slots, which means leftover space. That's my issue with a one-man ornithopter, as well. IMO, there should be a deficiency to handle that, something like "Cramped," which would lower the base Hard Slots for a vehicle.

Just cuz you'd have those hard slots left over doesn't mean you have to use 'em, or even assume the space for 'em would be there. My interpretation of the number of hard slots is that and can be up to that number, not that it has to be that number.

I do like the "cramped" deficiency idea though, now that you mention it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Well, it's at least 1 person higher than 0...

I ran into a similar problem while trying to design a parachute.

The Auld Grump

Did you happen to hit upon a solution there?

I'm having HERO flashbacks. Or flashsideways, I guess.

Yeah, the same one mentioned - made it Equipment. :?

Ah well. And I like the idea of a Cramped Deficiency as well.

The Auld Grump

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

Going back to the idea of equipment, there's actually a special feature called Worn Use.

So all that needs to be done is allow forms of locomotion to be added to equipment. This allows for the roller skates, jet packs, mechanical wings, foot scooters, etc. etc.

As for the problem of hard slots, after rereading the rules, I'm inclined to use the Cramped deficiency. Now it's just a matter of details - ie. how many HS's to take off, how many CP's to subtract, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, the table under Additional Hard Slot could easily be used, just applied as a negative. That is, normally an additional HS on a size Large vehicle is 2 CP; reverse it, so a Cramped Large vehicle would be -1 HS/-2 CP. The number of times Cramped could be taken is really self-limited, since every vehicle needs to have room for a pilot/driver, a power source, and a means of locomotion.

So if I were to make, say, electric rollerskates, it'd look like this:

Large Vehicle (big enough to accomodate a Medium driver): 50 CP, 10 HS
Agile (2): 4 CP
Booster (2): 4 CP, 2 HS
Land Movement, Wheels: 0 CP (Base Option)
Impedance: -3 CP, -1 HS
Open: -3 CP, -2 HS
Road Vehicle (4): -4 CP
User-Hostile: -1 CP
Cramped (8): -12 CP; room enough for a driver and an electrical power source

Total CP: 35
Remaining HS: 2

So that seems okay, except for this line under the Open deficiency:

"The machine provides half cover, or no cover if the machine is the same size or smaller than the rider."

But... but... it can't be the same size or smaller! It has to be larger!

*twitch*
*thud*

 

[devlin1]

*sigh*

That was me.

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

Now create the roller skates as equipment instead of as a vehicle, and allow Land Movement as an option. What do you come up with? I'd do it myself, except I don't have time...

 

[devlin1]

Now create the roller skates as equipment instead of as a vehicle, and allow Land Movement as an option. What do you come up with? I'd do it myself, except I don't have time...

Have to check that out later. The awesome part about building them as a Large vehicle is that the base move speed is 100! Yikes! I was going to buy Fast until I realized how fast they are already.

 

[El Diablo Robotico]

The bad part about building 'em large is that they're not ACTUALLY large... Equipment really makes more sense.

 

[devlin1]

The bad part about building 'em large is that they're not ACTUALLY large... Equipment really makes more sense.

I agree. I just hate house rules. I want there to be a built-in common-sense way for it to work using the rules as written. However, the fact that one part of the book says a Medium creature can't drive a Medium vehicle and another part makes mention of vehicles being the same size category or smaller than the driver leads me to think that, unfortunately, that's not the case.

 

[Coyotzin]

I agree. I just hate house rules. I want there to be a built-in common-sense way for it to work using the rules as written. However, the fact that one part of the book says a Medium creature can't drive a Medium vehicle and another part makes mention of vehicles being the same size category or smaller than the driver leads me to think that, unfortunately, that's not the case.

Note that the Open deficiency refers to machines and the deficiency can also be applied to structures; thus, the part about Medium machines for Medium riders refers to structures rather than vehicles.

 

[devlin1]

I agree. I just hate house rules. I want there to be a built-in common-sense way for it to work using the rules as written. However, the fact that one part of the book says a Medium creature can't drive a Medium vehicle and another part makes mention of vehicles being the same size category or smaller than the driver leads me to think that, unfortunately, that's not the case.

Note that the Open deficiency refers to machines and the deficiency can also be applied to structures; thus, the part about Medium machines for Medium riders refers to structures rather than vehicles.

But do people ride structures? I just think this could use some clarification from the Authors On High.

 

[Coyotzin]

But do people ride structures? I just think this could use some clarification from the Authors On High.

Which I am

Replace "riders" with "occupants".

 

[devlin1]

But do people ride structures? I just think this could use some clarification from the Authors On High.

Which I am

Replace "riders" with "occupants".

Ah. Gotcha. All glory to the Authors!

So what about what we were discussing earlier? How would you make a small, one-man vehicle?

 

[devlin1]

Addendum:

What size vehicle is a bicycle? It would seem to be Medium, but that would mean that I, a Medium-sized creature (albeit a rather small one), would be able to sit on it (receiving no cover, since it's Open), but would be unable to actually go anywhere on it. For that, I'd need a gnome... with long legs, presumably. And that's not even taking into account the time-honored practice of a passenger on the handlebars.

Under the rules as stated, it has to be Large. Assuming one HS for the rider and another for the Work-powered machinery, that's 8 HS I can use to, say, mount weapons, extra arms, and so on, but good luck mounting artillery on a bicycle. A boresight vehicle weapon ought to fit-- that's 4 HS, right?-- along with 96 pounds of cargo space in the leftover 3 HS (plus or minus; I don't have the book on me). Somehow, I don't see it.

I know there's an intended logic in the rules (which, as I said before, I like very much) to build something as simple as a bicycle. I just don't know what that logic is.

 

[Coyotzin]

Welcome to mad science

Well, each size category covers a wide range of actual physical dimensions. A bycicle would be Large, but is on the lowest end of the Large scale opposite a steam-powered battle armor that is bordering on Huge, which also explains why a horse and a lion are both Large creatures too.

On the question of the rocket-powered skates and jetpacks... I would create them as personal equipment rather than as vehicles. It's this kind of thing where rules get fuzzy and overlap a little, which is perfectly ok; the amazing machine creation system is meant to provide a framework to accomodate your imagination, but it can't possibly anticipate ALL the wonderful things that players can come up with, so improvisation and tinkering are encouraging. Don't let the system limit your ideas; instead kick the system until it screams; the idea comes first, the mechanics come second.