hanszurcher
Mongoose
Prime_Evil said:
Absolutely. But oddly enough, I think HeroQuest does a better job at supporting Glorantha than RuneQuest.
Starting Legend Without RuneQuest
- Thread starter alex_greene
- Start date
Absolutely. But oddly enough, I think HeroQuest does a better job at supporting Glorantha than RuneQuest.
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
hanszurcher said:
That's hardly surprising. Heroquest was designed specifically to provide a rule system for Glorantha, but Runequest has always aspired to being more "portable" - even if it has come to be inseparable from Glorantha in the minds of many gamers.
alex_greene
Guest
Which is why Legend is in the perfect position to make a clean break. Mongoose not only don't tie Glorantha to Legend - legally, they can't support Glorantha at all, now.
So now you can free Legend to run pretty much anything you want, from the Last Days of the Roman Empire to Sharpe, to Legend Modern (have to port over those rules for modern firearms) or Legend Future (BFG-9000, anyone?) or to a setting entirely your own.
Speaking of creating settings, a setting toolbox for Legend outlining faction creation, empire creation and so on, along with city creation, encounter tables and so on, would really cement the game's independence. Sort of like the Traveller Campaign Guide they just launched.
Of course, if they include a basic city creation framework in their first Cities of Legend book, the one with the Orc city, that makes its acquisition in the near future pretty imperative ...
So now you can free Legend to run pretty much anything you want, from the Last Days of the Roman Empire to Sharpe, to Legend Modern (have to port over those rules for modern firearms) or Legend Future (BFG-9000, anyone?) or to a setting entirely your own.
Speaking of creating settings, a setting toolbox for Legend outlining faction creation, empire creation and so on, along with city creation, encounter tables and so on, would really cement the game's independence. Sort of like the Traveller Campaign Guide they just launched.
Of course, if they include a basic city creation framework in their first Cities of Legend book, the one with the Orc city, that makes its acquisition in the near future pretty imperative ...
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
alex_greene said:
Agreed..
alex_greene said:
I know that some people are concerned about the fragmentation of the D100 fanbase, but I think that we are entering a golden age for the system. BRP is gaining some traction, Legend has been an unexpected hit with many gamers who have never tried Runequest, there are many licensed Call of Cthulhu products out there, and there is a brand new edition of RuneQuest on the horizon. The followers of the various D100 games don't seem to suffer from the kind of blind edition rage that afflicts many segments within the gaming community - individuals may express a personal preference for one variant or another, but are happy to steal elements from other D100 games as the fancy takes them - even using material from earlier editions if it looks useful to them.
alex_greene said:
I'm hoping that we will see an updated version of the excellent MRQ II Empires book at some point. It would be nice if it included some additional rules to make the kingdom creation system useful in normal play. There was also a whole heap of stuff from the MRQ I Guilds, Factions and Cults book that didn't make it into the MRQ II Empires book - it might be possible to salvage some of that material and convert it across to Legend. (Are you listening Matt 8) )
alex_greene said:
I'[m pretty sure that this will be a straight conversion of the D20 book to test the waters - if it is successful, I'd wager that we will see more products in the series. Personally, I'd love to see them redo the Slayers Guide to the Yuan-Ti as a book on the Serpentfolk...
hanszurcher
Mongoose
Prime_Evil said:
Actually, RuneQuest was also made specifically with Glorantha in mind. That was one of its early selling points.
"RuneQuest is a departure from most FRP games issued since the concepts introduction in 1974. Unlike most others, this game is tied to a particular world, Glorantha, first glimpsed through Chaosium's boardgames White Bear and Red Moon and Nomad Gods."
~From the Introduction of RQ2
Of coarse that doesn't mean that the rules weren't adaptable to other settings. We played RQ2 petty consistently in Greyhawk.
As a side note, Steve Perrin once disclosed in a interview that Greg Stafford tried porting Glorantha to Dave Hargrave's Arduin Grimoire rules before deciding to develop RuneQuest.
alex_greene
Guest
I'd love to see Mongoose try out a completely new take on our favourite poikilotherm species, both herpetoid and saurian. Perhaps with a nod to modern theories in palaeontology, some feathered and even pseudoavian species, too.
alex_greene said:
Legend has made a clean break.
Mongoose have produced no Gloranthan material for Legend and probably never will.
The only things linking Legend back to Glorantha are the Mongoose RQ Gloranthan supplements. Other supplements which are being reprinted for Legend are the generic non-Gloranthan ones.
That, of course, and threads like this one ...
Blackyinkin
Mongoose
>That's hardly surprising. Heroquest was designed specifically to provide a rule system for >Glorantha, but Runequest has always aspired to being more "portable" - even if it has come to >be inseparable from Glorantha in the minds of many gamers.
Heroquest has got to be one of the most portable game mechanics out there!! Robin Laws adapted his mechanics to fit Glorantha in the guise of Hero Wars, the Heroquest 1, but HQ2 is utterly the most cross genre game I have every played.
I have used HQ to
1) Play mass miniatures battles in Glorantha.
2) Convert our groups remaining Munchkin Fu cards into PCS for an impromptu roleplaying session.
3) Played Star Wars, Serenity, Call of Cthulhu, Hawkmoon and a dozen other rules heavy rpgs.
4) Run a game where all of the pcs were actors in a 1950's sci fi serial, where they were not just playing the characters in the series, but also the actors playing the character, and the producers and crewe of the series and even the next generation of the characters in the 1970s and 1980s cult classic remakes of the game.
Legend is a great system, so was RQ, I love OpenQuest and I adore Heroquest. RQ and HQ are both linked to Glorantha if you like it or not, its where these games were born. I have heard some pretty harsh statements about the games from 'folk that dont like Glorantha' or refer to Runequest as 'That silly game with ducks, where you can get your legs cut off and still keep fighting!' Its all horses for courses.
I would love to see legend produce some modern day, sci fi etc supplements, D101 have done it with OQ, in the form of The Company and the forth coming River of Heaven. The D100 mechanic is sound. Ironically I find BRP too much, I get lost in all the bolt ons and forget which mechanics I am using and then spend too long hunting for them in the books.
I dont think you have to deny the games heritage, nor do you have to force it. If folks have bought legend, but never heard of Runequest or Glorantha, then that is cool and fine. I would be suprised if there are many such people, I actually wonder if the biggest pull has not been the product, but the fact that you can get it and a load of cool supplements for $1 each :-D
Simon Bray
Heroquest has got to be one of the most portable game mechanics out there!! Robin Laws adapted his mechanics to fit Glorantha in the guise of Hero Wars, the Heroquest 1, but HQ2 is utterly the most cross genre game I have every played.
I have used HQ to
1) Play mass miniatures battles in Glorantha.
2) Convert our groups remaining Munchkin Fu cards into PCS for an impromptu roleplaying session.
3) Played Star Wars, Serenity, Call of Cthulhu, Hawkmoon and a dozen other rules heavy rpgs.
4) Run a game where all of the pcs were actors in a 1950's sci fi serial, where they were not just playing the characters in the series, but also the actors playing the character, and the producers and crewe of the series and even the next generation of the characters in the 1970s and 1980s cult classic remakes of the game.
Legend is a great system, so was RQ, I love OpenQuest and I adore Heroquest. RQ and HQ are both linked to Glorantha if you like it or not, its where these games were born. I have heard some pretty harsh statements about the games from 'folk that dont like Glorantha' or refer to Runequest as 'That silly game with ducks, where you can get your legs cut off and still keep fighting!' Its all horses for courses.
I would love to see legend produce some modern day, sci fi etc supplements, D101 have done it with OQ, in the form of The Company and the forth coming River of Heaven. The D100 mechanic is sound. Ironically I find BRP too much, I get lost in all the bolt ons and forget which mechanics I am using and then spend too long hunting for them in the books.
I dont think you have to deny the games heritage, nor do you have to force it. If folks have bought legend, but never heard of Runequest or Glorantha, then that is cool and fine. I would be suprised if there are many such people, I actually wonder if the biggest pull has not been the product, but the fact that you can get it and a load of cool supplements for $1 each :-D
Simon Bray
hanszurcher
Mongoose
Blackyinkin said:
'Tis but a scratch!
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
Blackyinkin said:
Robin Laws is one of the greatest designers in our industry. I've never had much luck getting groups to try HeroQuest, but it's not from lack of trying - the system is very elegant.
Blackyinkin said:
The hate that some folks have for Ducks always seems a bit over-the-top to me, but there's not much that can be done about it at this point. Ducks aren't even a major part of Glorantha, but they have come to personify the setting in the minds of some folks!
Blackyinkin said:
Super Genius Games did produce a version of Strike Force 7 for MRQ I that includes some rules for modern gaming. All of the relevant rules are Open Game Content, so there should be no problem updating them to Legend....
Personally, I don't find BRP too fiddly - it's far less complicated than other universal systems such as GURPS or the Hero system. Ironically, there was a thread over at the Steve Jackson Games forum a while back where people were commenting that BRP was too rules-light for their tastes!
Blackyinkin said:
I agree with most of this statement, but I get the feeling that there are quite a few people encountering the D100 system for the first time with Legend. I think that some folks who are looking for a viable alternative to D&D / Pathfinder picked up the game in PDF because it was dirt cheap and like what they see....
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
hanszurcher said:
Come back here and I'll bite your legs off!
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I also fall into that group that got back into D100 gaming with Legend having never used MRQ or RQ for that matter.
I do have the original "Worlds of Wonder" and that was my intro to D100 games.
I am currently converting my fantasy setting to D100 using Legend.
I do have the original "Worlds of Wonder" and that was my intro to D100 games.
I am currently converting my fantasy setting to D100 using Legend.
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
I played a lot of RuneQuest and Stormbringer back in the day, but kind of drifted away from the system once the Avalon Hill era started. I still bought occasional RQ books, but they didn't see much use in actual play. (Sun County is still one of my favourite RPG books of all time though). I also played a number of other classic Chaosium RPGs, including Elf Quest, Ringworld, and Call of Cthulhu.
I took a look at Mongoose Runequest I when it first came out, but decided that it wasn't for me - it seemed a bit sloppy in comparison to the high standards set by Chaosium during the Golden Age. At the same time, my interest in the system was being rekindled by the release of the big gold book for BRP and OpenQuest.
When MRQ II came out, I ignored it for a while - figuring that it would be a straight rehash of MRQ I. However, eventually I picked up the core rulebook and was very impressed. It seemed like a far more coherent version of the system. It also captured something of the elusive spirit of classic Runequest. I was disappointed that this iteration of the game wasn't more widely known, as I considered it to be one of the best systems released in the last decade.
And when Mongoose announced the release of Legend under the Open Game License, I was sold. This meant that I could use the system as a base for my own customised version of the game. These days I am busy working on my own homebrew variant and designing a new campaign setting for the system.
I took a look at Mongoose Runequest I when it first came out, but decided that it wasn't for me - it seemed a bit sloppy in comparison to the high standards set by Chaosium during the Golden Age. At the same time, my interest in the system was being rekindled by the release of the big gold book for BRP and OpenQuest.
When MRQ II came out, I ignored it for a while - figuring that it would be a straight rehash of MRQ I. However, eventually I picked up the core rulebook and was very impressed. It seemed like a far more coherent version of the system. It also captured something of the elusive spirit of classic Runequest. I was disappointed that this iteration of the game wasn't more widely known, as I considered it to be one of the best systems released in the last decade.
And when Mongoose announced the release of Legend under the Open Game License, I was sold. This meant that I could use the system as a base for my own customised version of the game. These days I am busy working on my own homebrew variant and designing a new campaign setting for the system.
hanszurcher
Mongoose
Prime_Evil said:
Holy damn I wish someone would release an updated Elf Quest!
Prime_Evil
Emperor Mongoose
hanszurcher said:
That would be awesome - I have fond memories of that game. I played in a great mini-campaign using the Sea Elves sourcebook.
arthurfallz
Mongoose
I can see what the OP means, but I think trying to separate Legend from the RuneQuest legacy is unlikely to occur. I personally have no interest in Glorantha, never have. My first glimpse at RQ was the RQ3, which had a collection of Gloranthan creatures in the back. Looking at them, I suddenly saw why the rumours I had encountered of Glorantha being a "stupid" world came from. I lost interest in pursuing it from there.
It was similar to Rolemaster, which I played a lot back in the late 80s/early 90s. They had a house world (ShadowWorld I think) which we never touched. Most of the stuff that was tied to ShadowWorld seemed weird and pointless, so we avoided it whenever we came across it in the RM Companions. Really, there are few rpg settings created that I like enough to bother running. I've taken stabs at Forgotten Realms (no comment) and Pathfinder's Golarion (not a bad one). But I think a GM is always best working on their own world, and stealing pieces from other worlds to use on their own.
Legend works well for that. But for those who are interested in Glorantha, there are books upon books of stats and setting ideas ready to go (basically), using the system they have in their hands. Why toss that all aside? Even D&D allows you to model things from the past forward (though most people don't want to do that work) because they understand people might want to see a classic creature in his or her own creation.
If you want Ducks in your world, pretending Legend has nothing to do with them is silly. If you want to bring in Cthonian creepies, blinders on that the D100 system and BRP have nothing to do with each other are just silly.
It was similar to Rolemaster, which I played a lot back in the late 80s/early 90s. They had a house world (ShadowWorld I think) which we never touched. Most of the stuff that was tied to ShadowWorld seemed weird and pointless, so we avoided it whenever we came across it in the RM Companions. Really, there are few rpg settings created that I like enough to bother running. I've taken stabs at Forgotten Realms (no comment) and Pathfinder's Golarion (not a bad one). But I think a GM is always best working on their own world, and stealing pieces from other worlds to use on their own.
Legend works well for that. But for those who are interested in Glorantha, there are books upon books of stats and setting ideas ready to go (basically), using the system they have in their hands. Why toss that all aside? Even D&D allows you to model things from the past forward (though most people don't want to do that work) because they understand people might want to see a classic creature in his or her own creation.
If you want Ducks in your world, pretending Legend has nothing to do with them is silly. If you want to bring in Cthonian creepies, blinders on that the D100 system and BRP have nothing to do with each other are just silly.
alex_greene
Guest
I've a feeling that "Duckworld of Legend" is even sillier, and far less likely than the possibility of overcoming ossified expectation and the general inertia of diehard fans who can't understand and can't apparently tolerate change that is not in their control.arthurfallz said:
alex_greene said:
- has there been any? People have been looking forward to RQ6, but I haven't seen any ossified expectations.alex_greene said:
Inertia? There have been a lot of good things said about Legend on the boards and the Legend PDF was a best-seller, so I can't see any inertia there.alex_greene said:
We, and I speak for all die-hard fans without their permission, have been through many changes in rules systems before, none of which have been under our control. RQ3 changed the way we played RQ and made us bring back many RQ2 rules. RQM1 brought even more changes and RQM2 changed many things back again. Legend improved things in MRQ2 and brought more changes. But, we are used to them. In fact, we welcome them. Anyone who has played RQ/BRP/Legend in the past knows that the best way to play the games is to take the best bits of the rules and use them together.alex_greene said:
Also, who says that Legend changes are not under out control? It is OGC under an OGL, which means that the changes are completely under out control. Don't like a rule? Change it and publish it as Legend Compatible. Need setting rules? Write and publish. Need rules for something that Legend does not cover? Write and publish. Need new races or monsters? Write and publish.
I think that when people start publishing things for Legend in earnest, and they will, then we will see that Legend will become a dynamic and well-supported game, capable of co-existing with and supporting games such as RQ6, BRP, OpenQuest, Aeons and even HeroQuest.
