Starting Legend Without RuneQuest

[alex_greene]

I found myself wondering about novice gamers for whom Legend is their first roleplaying game - where they have no knowledge of RuneQuest, and therefore neither a basis for comparison nor an alternative resource to which to turn.

I think I'd like to see Legend developing as a pure resource, whole and complete unto itself, with no external references to its predecessor whatsoever. Future generations of novice gamers might appreciate being able to pick up a game that has no trappings beyond the sourcebooks of the game itself. Older games - D&D, Traveller, CoC, the World of Darkness - they all have some sort of trappings. Some of those trappings are pretty heavy and a lot of arguments are still going on in some circles based on different versions of the games, and even on differences between versions created by different publishers, such as "old WoD vs. new WoD" and the different versions of the Third Imperium with and without the Virus history.

But Legend has already cast itself free of the Glorantha trappings from the get go, so it can start afresh - moreover, Legend can potentially go in directions no other tabletop roleplaying game has gone, and create new audiences beyond what has now become a traditional demographic for gamers, attracting new people to roleplaying games by presenting different kinds of settings, different kinds of conflicts and different kinds of conflict resolution other than combat.

I'd like to see sourcebooks which offer players and GMs advice on such topics. If we can keep Legend flexible, and get its head out of the wargaming / RQ oubliette, it can be a very powerful little RPG with a very large potential audience. It's already designed to be picked up and run practically anywhere - just bring dice, pen and paper and refreshments along with your books - so imagine games of Street Legend spontaneously taking place in a public place one fine afternoon, for example.

Legendaires, not RuneQuestrians.

Discuss.

 

[danskmacabre]

If it had a modern/Scifi supplement, it could be seen as the Gurps of D100. Like a generic system to build other campaign settings on.
As it is it's very adaptable to many Fantasy settings. It's very easy to tune to your tastes.

 

[soltakss]

Legend has already done this.

There will be examples of someone asking "How do we do this in Legend?" and the answer is "We did this in RuneQuest or BRP" and that is a fair answer.

However, as more and more of these questions are asked and answered, the results can be put into new OGC material to build up a core of Legend material.

That way, we can use Legend for RuneQuest and vice versa without any issues.

 

[Prime_Evil]

I hope that Legend will develop its own unique identity, without sacrificing broad cross-compatibility with Runequest and BRP. I'm sure that Loz and Pete will do an awesome job with RQ 6 and I hope that people who encounter the D100 system through Legend will be encouraged to check out their products as well....and to pick up the occasional monograph from Chaosium. The truth is that Legend and the other D100 variants aren't rules-heavy games like the D20 system - it's easy to port stuff from one variant to another. For example, if you want to include creatures from the Cthulhu mythos in your Legend game, this is easy to achieve (just don't complain when everyone dies).

For me, one of the big attractions of Legend (as well as OpenQuest and Rennaisance) is the release of the rules under the Open Game License. This makes it easy to produce customised variants of the rules for different settings. It's a pity that RQ 6 won't be following the same route, but I am sympathetic to the reasons.

 

[Loz]

I think I'd like to see Legend developing as a pure resource, whole and complete unto itself, with no external references to its predecessor whatsoever.

I personally think this would be

a) Nigh-on impossible
b) Highly disingenuous to those predecessors.

Legend/MRQII is so similar to the rest of the BRP/RQ stable that you'll never be able to divorce it from its heritage. Were it a completely new and fresh set of mechanics with very few of the characteristics that define RQ and the BRP stable then fair enough; but the game builds on more than 30 years of good, solid design. It is what it is. It always will be.

If you also make overt attempts to distance the game from that heritage you are going to upset a LOT of people. You might not care about that; but their opinion, wargaming/RQ oubliette or not, still counts. It would be very damaging to the brand and to the publisher. MRQII gathered a lot of praise and stands in high regard; it did so partly because Pete and I actively acknowledged where the game had come from. MRQ1 attracted a lot of flak because it didn't reference its roots in the way that it should.

Future generations of novice gamers might appreciate being able to pick up a game that has no trappings beyond the sourcebooks of the game itself. Older games - D&D, Traveller, CoC, the World of Darkness - they all have some sort of trappings. Some of those trappings are pretty heavy and a lot of arguments are still going on in some circles based on different versions of the games, and even on differences between versions created by different publishers, such as "old WoD vs. new WoD" and the different versions of the Third Imperium with and without the Virus history.

RQ/BRP fans have been, for the most part, far more tolerant than other sets of fans in their acceptance of different versions of the core system. Part of the reason for this is Chaosium was one of the very first companies to create a house system and show its huge flexibility in a variety of very different genres. This generated acceptance. You do get people who prefer original RQ to Avalon Hill RQ (and vice versa) and those who prefer Elric! to Cthulhu etc, etc. But they're also very tolerant of different versions of the systems because it is so easy to pick and choose to make your own variant, and that's always been encouraged. I'm sure there'll be people who prefer Legend to RQ6 and vice versa, but will also take what they like from both to create their own melange. We should be thankful that this system is largely free of 'Edition Wars' syndrome. But deliberately distancing Legend and trying to erase its heritage would be in danger of introducing it.

But Legend has already cast itself free of the Glorantha trappings from the get go, so it can start afresh

RQ cast aside its Glorantha trappings when it was sold to Avalon Hill. The core system has been ostensibly setting-free since the mid-80s. Although both MRQ1 and MRQII referenced Glorantha the rules in both have actively tried to be as flexible as possible and supported by multiple settings from the word go. Legend's not breaking any new ground here.

Legend can potentially go in directions no other tabletop roleplaying game has gone, and create new audiences beyond what has now become a traditional demographic for gamers, attracting new people to roleplaying games by presenting different kinds of settings, different kinds of conflicts and different kinds of conflict resolution other than combat.

Legend is not unique in this regard. BRP stable games have been doing it for decades. I certainly hope that the system will attract new players and demonstrate that roleplaying isn't all about killing stuff and stealing their loot, but its not as though there aren't many other, very successful RPGs out there that do what you're saying. Its a very crowded market.

It's already designed to be picked up and run practically anywhere - just bring dice, pen and paper and refreshments along with your books - so imagine games of Street Legend spontaneously taking place in a public place one fine afternoon, for example

.

Greg Stafford once told a great story about his experiences in Mexico when he spent a year teaching there. He was sitting near a cantina having coffee and saw a group of people nearby, in the sunshine, with paper, dice and rulebook. 'They're playing an RPG', he thought, and sure enough they were. When he went over to see what they were playing, it was HeroQuest...

 

[Deleriad]

It's already designed to be picked up and run practically anywhere - just bring dice, pen and paper and refreshments along with your books.

Surely this is true of pretty much all rpgs and always has been. There's a photo of me running a game of RQ3 on a park bench somewhere in the 80s. I remember playing in the garden quite a lot in my misspent youth too.

My take on Legend is that it simply does what a traditional fantasy rpg does and does it exceedingly well.

I also think that it would be a shame to cut ties with its past and its present family. There is so much good stuff for BRP games out there that shoving it all into an oubliette is, I reckon, a mistake at best.

The current Legend book does a good job of just getting on with the game. If someone has never heard of RQ before then they don't need to to understand the game. On the other hand, RQ vets can quickly see what's new in Legend and pick and choose what they like. Seems pretty good, all in all to me.

 

[Simulacrum]

Agreed the context of other current, previous and future incarnations is enriching rather than distracting - except in so far as when you look at one of the interminable 'recommendation' threads on RPGnet, every time anyone gets to a BRP/RQ/Legend/Renassance/Aeon/OpenQuest bit it makes it look like a bugger's muddle that's bewildering to anyone thinking of trying a D100 for the first time. For now Legend is the cheap way in to take a look with what' currently the best ruleset on offer (IMHO of course, YBRPVariantMV) - other than the 'lite' SRDs that are fully free. RQ6 will, I suspect, look like the Rolls Royce version. Loz is right - it's a crowded market, and even if the universe contracted as come products fail or fall away, OoP RPGs are still out there and carry on being played

I love the heritage - right now I'm drafting AoT's Ritual Magic rules, and while Pete's Blood Magic is one inspiration, RQ3 is another important one. Anyone with a long RQ history who reads AoT will probably spot there's a little bit of RQ3 inspiration in some of the 'mods' to the Legend system therein.

 

[alex_greene]

I love the heritage - right now I'm drafting AoT's Ritual Magic rules, and while Pete's Blood Magic is one inspiration, RQ3 is another important one. Anyone with a long RQ history who reads AoT will probably spot there's a little bit of RQ3 inspiration in some of the 'mods' to the Legend system therein.

Maybe so. However, you are making these mods your own, whole and complete within your book. Not needing anything other than your book and the Legend Core Rulebook. That's what sells AoT for me - the fact that I'd only need AoT and the Legend core for the rest of the basics that you haven't modded in AoT, and that you don't go spiralling off to other versions of RQ or BRP in your books.

 

[Prime_Evil]

Greg Stafford once told a great story about his experiences in Mexico when he spent a year teaching there. He was sitting near a cantina having coffee and saw a group of people nearby, in the sunshine, with paper, dice and rulebook. 'They're playing an RPG', he thought, and sure enough they were. When he went over to see what they were playing, it was HeroQuest...

That's an awesome story! I'd love to know what the gamers said when they learned that the person watching them was Greg Stafford...lol

 

[warlock1971]

I'm new around here but I have been role playing since 1985 and was familiar with RQ way back when.

Having only recently returned to RuneQuest (mid 2011), I was surprised to find that there had been so many editions "come and go", while I'd been away playing D&D, mainly. And while I agree, that it may be in Legend's best interests to maintain the link with its past, I do think that Mongoose has an opportunity to do their own thing, completely separate from RQ. It is a chance to forge territory as a stand alone brand. The history is also intimidating to new Legendaires (what a cool term, BTW), as it is difficult to come to terms with it all. Mix in BRP and Glorantha in to that pot and it becomes too intimidating, in my opinion.

I bought the Legend rules and have to say, I was blown away by the slick system. I think I am a fan for life now and there is no going back.

 

[alex_greene]

I bought the Legend rules and have to say, I was blown away by the slick system. I think I am a fan for life now and there is no going back.

That's the spirit!

 

[Prime_Evil]

Another convert to the dark side!

 

[DamonJynx]

To me, a games history is equally important as it's present and future. For newcomers to the system like myself (from MRQ1-2 onwards) it's nice to know that if I find an old module for Stormbringer, I can run it with Legend with a few minor conversions. The same goes for pretty much any of the D100 games.

One of the key drawbacks (IMO only, no intention of starting an edition war) for D&D was it's lack of backwards compatibility between versions: 1-2 was OK, 3.0-pathfinder was OK, 4 and beyond...who knows and who cares. To convert from pre-D20 to D20 was a massive amount of work.

The fact that the Legend range is complete of and in itself is also a bonus in that if I'm not interested in any of the currently available or OoP scenarios for D100 games, I'm quite at liberty and actively encouraged, to do my own thing with the core system which is in my experience, one of the easiest to teach by far. If you don't believe check me out Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics as an example.

I'm a D100 convert and Legend is my preferred system by a long shot. I'll have a look at what Loz & Pete are doing of course, but ATM Legend is..well.. Legendary!

 

[Bilharzia]

You are suggesting Legend could be a gateway game? I can't see it being one, some version of BRP might be, Call of Cthulhu already did a lot of what you're talking about decades ago. I think you are reading far too much into the name change and removal of the Glorantha licence.

 

[DamonJynx]

I can't see it being one, some version of BRP might be...

Well , I'm not completely up on the history, but as I understand things BRP, Runequest, Legend , Openquest and so on, are all derived from the original Chaosium version of Runequest from back in the 70's? If so, Legend is a version of BRP and could fit the bill of a gateway game, could it not?

 

[Bilharzia]

I can't see it being one, some version of BRP might be...

Well , I'm not completely up on the history, but as I understand things BRP, Runequest, Legend , Openquest and so on, are all derived from the original Chaosium version of Runequest from back in the 70's? If so, Legend is a version of BRP and could fit the bill of a gateway game, could it not?

Yes it's certainly part of BRP, a gateway game? maybe, but I don't really think so, I think the closest any BRP game has come to a gateway game is Call of Cthulhu. I think MRQII/Legend is great and the best thing that's happened to RuneQuest for decades but I think it's waaay too involved and there are tons of games which are better suited for that purpose.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Legend or any kind of ambitions to go beyond what has now become a traditional demographic for gamers but I think that's over-egging Legend.

 

[warlock1971]

I just think a system, completely setting neutral, is a better way to go than something tied in intrinsically to its setting. Older RQ and Glorantha were joined at the hip, IMO.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I just think a system, completely setting neutral, is a better way to go than something tied in intrinsically to its setting. Older RQ and Glorantha were joined at the hip, IMO.

Which version?
The only version of RQ that was actively promoting Glorantha as a setting was the (unpublished) RQ4:AiG

RQ1/2 Included some information on Glorantha as an example of a "closed" campaign world. The expectation at the time was that GM's would be creating their own world. I'm not sure what people who are used to complete settings in a rule book would make of a book with only three cults - One of which is a small group of Assassins and one a Troll Cult...

RQ3 was explicitly set in "Fantasy Europe"

MRQ1 was a "generic" ruleset with a "presumed default setting" of Glorantha, (which did no favours to either Glorantha or it "genericness"

MRQ2 was a generic ruleset for which Glorantha was one of the example settings

 

[Prime_Evil]

I like Glorantha, but I think that Runequest can support much more that just one campaign setting!

Unfortunately, many gamers presume that the setting and the system are inseperable. I've met a number of people who won't play Runequest because Glorantha isn't to their taste. It's bizarre - it's like people who won't play any form of D&D because they don't like Greyhawk. (There might be plenty of valid reasons to dislike D&D, but I'm pretty sure this isn't one of them!)

Hopefully Legend will convince some of these skeptics that it is worth taking a second look at the underlying game system. Glorantha will still be supported by RQ 6 for those who want it, but both Legend and RQ 6 will also take the system in some brand new directions - and this isn't mentioning the innovation that is taking place with other variants such as Clockwork & Chivalry

 

[hanszurcher]

I just think a system, completely setting neutral, is a better way to go than something tied in intrinsically to its setting. Older RQ and Glorantha were joined at the hip, IMO.

I definitely like a setting independent rules-set for fantasy. But having the rules tied to a particular world as RuneQuest was/is to Glorantha has some advantages. Specially for new role-players getting their feet wet, unfortunately many found Glorantha to murky for the plunge.