Starship Troopers Evolution

[MongooseMatt]

I'm doing 15mm Soviets as well. Thing is Matt, I need a favor. If you are going to be putting out WWII stuff for this range, let me know. It's tough to paint with a 2 year old running around and another on the way any day! :shock: I wouldn't even try to paint anymore if these sounded like a seriously possible thing. Mix this with the talk of terrain, and I'm dead sold!

While you're this far, you should put those factories to work on 1:3000 scle ships for Victory at Sea!

Any chances you will be looking into different scales? Sounds like these 2 games are 28-32mm for now.

If we can prove the concept (and, unless something goes tragically wrong (!), I think we will), it opens the doors up to a great many projects. _If_ things go as well as we hope, a WWII game is very, very likely. We all want to do it here at Mongoose, and I think it would be popular.

30mm is what we are looking at right now, but we have already started eyeing up the possibilities of 15mm for some games. Then there is the 3D WWII fighter game we have been messing around with.

In short, it is all good. We have announced two games and, come Summer next year, there will likely be a Fantasy-based game (Conan is the strongest contender, though we are also looking at Lone Wolf and Glorantha as possibilities). After that, well, we'll have to see!

 

[MongooseMatt]

so what armies are available for battlefield evoulution

Initially, US Armed Forces (USMC to begin with), the European Federation Task Force, the Middle Eastern Alliance and the Chinese PLA. PLaytesters have already asked for the IDF and African Warlords

 

[zlatan]

i can see all my money going into battlefield evoulution instead of starship troopers oh ye are there going to be boats

 

[shakespear]

I'm not convinced I'm afraid.

Added to this I've had difficulties getting missing/miscast parts replaced in the past which makes me very leary of buying into it (I only just received some pathfinder heads that I had sent back as miscast in Febuary). Mongoose needs to look at its customer service department. For most people it seems to work fine but some problems seem to get lost between the cracks at which time its a nightmare to get them sorted out. Standing by your product after its been bought and found defective is vital.

Keith Mc

Why did you have to send the heads back? If a part is missing or damaged they need to trust you enough to send it out THEN, and not make you send the part back for verification.

That is poor service.

 

[JoseDominguez]

yeah, I've got 15 plasma bugs that are miscast, please send me new ones.

 

[shub niggoroth]

we all better hope this http://agonist.org/ian_welsh/20060828/the_iran_question
does not happen, because if the price of oil spikes, then we can kiss all of this goodbye. Not that politics should intrude on this discussion or anything, but I recall the price of plastic kits skyrocketing (relatively) in the 1970's after the Arab-Israeli war of 1973 and the oil embargo.

 

[zlatan]

so when are we likely to see more pictures of battlefield evoulution

 

[MaxSteiner]

This is obviously a good thing, but I wonder really whether it could have been eased into a little more gradualy, its almost as if the company not been forced into it to rather suddenly.
When sensible people were getting slatted by the fanatics for pointing out that most of the skinny releases were crap and were slowly killing the system, the company seemed to be ignoring all evidence and pushing onwards with worse models each and every month (Didn't help that no matter how clearly substandard things were there was always a few people on here saying "Wow the best thing ever, Im gonna buy a billion!"). Then things turned round and it really looked like Mongoose had found its feet and was turning things round, there were alot of assurances that the announcement would save the game, which of course it may well do in time, but right now this news has basically killed this system till April, when it'll return with more players (Most of whom will be about 11...).
I'm a bit shellshocked to be honest. Its worse because I'd kinda been expecting some kinda pull till the franchise was in the limelight a bit more, and also because a new edition and a redo of the whole line aside from the few world class existing models is what I'd do in the situation. (Its nice to get an official word of Mongoose saying the skinnies weren't very good, I'll probably have to rub that in the face of a few people if theres a couple of quiet months news wise ).
It just feels that in the here and now theres nothing to keep the system alive, and come April all the hard work people have done fighting to promote this system is gonna have to start from scratch, by which time there will be even more world class miniature games and at least five quality prepainted wargames on the market (Mongooses 2, Helldorado, AT-43 and Warzone) as well as newer better versions of all the existing systems...

Still I am commited to the SST rules, they're amongst the best I've seen without resorting to hardcore mathmatics (ShadowRun DMZ was a good system though lol), and I'm hoping that the fan base will rally round in these dark empty months and produce a thriving scene, just like it was at the start. If everybody who loves the game starts submitting Signs&Protents articles, or converting great new exciting models, writing up new armies etc we could maintain, or EVEN exceed exising levels of interest, which will by the time of the new edition explode in a fervant cloud of hobby'ism!!!!

 

[MongooseMatt]

so when are we likely to see more pictures of battlefield evoulution

Could be as soon as a week or two. . .

 

[emperorpenguin]

AT43 looks terrible though, the quality is very poor

 

[Bluefool]

Wow. Well, thats a lot to soak up. First off, Matt, could you please put a news blurb up on the site somewhere? As one previous person mentioned I was watching for this hard and didn't notice the post either. It wouldn't amaze me if you guys have some nifty new web stuff going up and it's just still in process I suppose. I suspect looking for a post that was titled "Here is the Big Anouncement" was an oops on my part .

My first reaction:

Damn. I've been playing SST BETA?!?

My second reaction:

Oh crap...a clicks game?!?

Third:

A YEAR??? Throw us a bone here and at least let us see these new one sheet rules!

*sigh* The longer thinking of course includes so much I don't know what to say without writing a book. I got into SST because I wanted a sci-fi minatures game that was not from a certain company who has a bad habit of bending over their customers. Mongoose had a very solid rep of listening to their customers and doing everything a small buisness could do to keep as many as possible happy (if you have more than 5 people, it's pretty much impossible to make *all* of them happy, so you have to shoot for the best you can...)

But the key phrase up there was that I wanted a minatures game...and I guess a clicks style game (which this technically isn't, I know) just dosen't fit that thinking for me. I want to assemble my models, paint them and then rip some other persons painted army apart.

However...if a game company can't sell enough of it to keep supporting it, then I have no game. And, us old school assemble and base and paint it types do seem to be going the way of the dodo. I go to my FLGS and people are playing clicks games and ccg's, with a rare "minatures" game in there. I go to Gencon and the rooms with such games are overflowing, while mostly old dudes are in the "minatures" area. I may not be happy about that particular direction, but I can accept it.

But, prepainted plastic figs with posable arms...are we....are we talking about "Action Figures" here???

I am happy to hear about the rules streamlining, but am worried it went too far...how can my beloved and battered thick rule book get compressed to one sheet and still be even vaugly the same game?

So, some questions:

1. Will all current models have rules for the new system? Or will the "legacy" rules be the only way to play some of my stuff?

2. If my unit is prepackaged, with a pre packaged cost sheet, can I still modify them? Will I be able to go to the depth we can now with changing our units to suprise our opponents, or will it be "Oh, there is the MI squad with one triple thud....again." How do all of the options for a brain bug fit onto a sheet? Do all talents and such go away for a straight version of "this is the bug. He has X."

3. No army books? How is a list constructed? Straight points with what static units are availble?

4. What am I supposed to tell the guy in my gaming group who finally bought a skinny starter army...this week?? He won't have anything but a skirmish level force for a year plus? At which point it may not be the same game even?

I guess this explains the huge influx to ebay of SST things with low buy it nows....

So, not real happy about the prepainted figs, but I can understand it just plain is the way most gamers want to go these days. If it is at all possible tho, *please* let us old farts buy unassembled, unpainted figures in normal retail channels. I think you may be going for a hybrid game, not as basic as a clicks game, but easier to get into than a "minis" game, and having them available will keep us old types interested. If we have to special order them only, it's a big turn off for me. Personally, I hate repainting a fig. The colors on it blow any creativity for me. If I had a MI in standard green and black, and was deciding on a new paint scheme, I think I would lean towards other drab, military colors...and I never would have painted up the Ice world MI I did.

So, overall, I have to say from my corner I'm pretty bummed. I lost my air assets, a friend I talked into buying into the game just got hosed, and I have nothing new for a year, at which point it will be a very diffrent game then what I am currently loving so much.

And, most painful of all, I have this horrible feeling that Army Builder rewrite number 10 is going to have to happen...

I'll stay tuned, but there is great sorrow in mudville.

 

[KeithMc]

I'm not convinced I'm afraid.

Added to this I've had difficulties getting missing/miscast parts replaced in the past which makes me very leary of buying into it (I only just received some pathfinder heads that I had sent back as miscast in Febuary). Mongoose needs to look at its customer service department. For most people it seems to work fine but some problems seem to get lost between the cracks at which time its a nightmare to get them sorted out. Standing by your product after its been bought and found defective is vital.

Keith Mc

Why did you have to send the heads back? If a part is missing or damaged they need to trust you enough to send it out THEN, and not make you send the part back for verification.

That is poor service.

I didn't mind sending them back. I did mind being treated like a muppet for six months while they f---'d around before they replaced them (several of the replacements aren't cast that well either but I've learned my lesson - I'll make do)

Keith Mc

 

[zlatan]

dude a week or 2 for pictures thats awesome cant wait

 

[mthomason]

I am happy to hear about the rules streamlining, but am worried it went too far...how can my beloved and battered thick rule book get compressed to one sheet and still be even vaugly the same game?

Trust me, it works

It moves you into a system where you rely more on real tactics, and less on knowing the rulebook inside-out (although SST was already pretty good at that anyway, compared to other games). It gets the game much closer to the "perfect wargame", where stats and rules become secondary to what you can see for yourself on the table, and the tactics are based around the miniatures rather than the rules. In other words, it plays more like a computer strategy game (where the "rules" are hidden inside the code and you just have to decide who moves where and shoots at what) and less like chess.

 

[MongooseMatt]

But, prepainted plastic figs with posable arms...are we....are we talking about "Action Figures" here???

Absolutely not - it is just to give them a little variation in pose, nothing more. They will not feel like action toys.

I am happy to hear about the rules streamlining, but am worried it went too far...how can my beloved and battered thick rule book get compressed to one sheet and still be even vaugly the same game?

I had my doubts when we started this project, and was prepared to hack the rules into a very abstract and streamlined form.

Didn't need to. Once a proportion of 'guff' had been chopped, and the Cover rules re-jinked (they needed it, we were told. . .), then we were suddenly looking at a double-sided A3 sheet. . .

Not only did it cover all slaient points, but it also added some new things, such as Suppression.

1. Will all current models have rules for the new system? Or will the "legacy" rules be the only way to play some of my stuff?

The main rulebook will list every model and unit we have produced for this game and provide stats and points costs for them. No model left behind!

2. If my unit is prepackaged, with a pre packaged cost sheet, can I still modify them? Will I be able to go to the depth we can now with changing our units to suprise our opponents, or will it be "Oh, there is the MI squad with one triple thud....again." How do all of the options for a brain bug fit onto a sheet? Do all talents and such go away for a straight version of "this is the bug. He has X."

You still have options (more so in SST Evo than BF Evo, given the nature of modern armies), and some packs will allow you to use certain models as upgrades to units. An example of this are the MEA Anti-Aircraft Infantry in BF Evo, which can be added to any MEA squad.

3. No army books? How is a list constructed? Straight points with what static units are availble?

If you just have the box sets, you have a completely free choice. It is simple and quick.

The main rulebook has army lists based on unit categories - Squad, Support, Armour, Command and so forth.

The benefit of this, of course, is that it not only gives each army a unique structure, but it also means we no longer have to update an army book when we release new models for it. All stats are on unit cards. Beyond the rules sheets and the main book, _no_ essential update books are required, for as long as the game goes on.

4. What am I supposed to tell the guy in my gaming group who finally bought a skinny starter army...this week?? He won't have anything but a skirmish level force for a year plus? At which point it may not be the same game even?

The game is still the same today as it was yesterday, and he can get plenty of fun out of a starter army. Those models will also still be useable when SST Evo comes out, effectively giving him a leg up on building a force (and maybe even some kudos from people just getting into the game and wondering where he got his 'unique' models from ).

 

[MongooseMatt]

It moves you into a system where you rely more on real tactics, and less on knowing the rulebook inside-out (although SST was already pretty good at that anyway, compared to other games). It gets the game much closer to the "perfect wargame", where stats and rules become secondary to what you can see for yourself on the table, and the tactics are based around the miniatures rather than the rules. In other words, it plays more like a computer strategy game (where the "rules" are hidden inside the code and you just have to decide who moves where and shoots at what) and less like chess.

True

There are many things I am proud of Mongoose for but, in terms of game design, the Evo system might just clinch it for me. It really does do everything we set out to achieve, and current SST players seem to be taking to it like ducks to water. . .

 

[emperorpenguin]

Didn't need to. Once a proportion of 'guff' had been chopped, and the Cover rules re-jinked (they needed it, we were told. . .), then we were suddenly looking at a double-sided A3 sheet. . .

Not only did it cover all slaient points, but it also added some new things, such as Suppression.
)).

Suppression! excellent! break out the SAWs!

 

[Bluefool]

In other words, it plays more like a computer strategy game (where the "rules" are hidden inside the code and you just have to decide who moves where and shoots at what) and less like chess.

But I have computer games that do that, and I like chess .

But...Mongoose has a good record of keeping it fun, which is the only thing keeping me from tossing myself off a building right now . We're counting on you guys...but from my perspective, youv'e tended to prove we can. Don't let us down, or there will be a stack of old fart wargamers booking flights to England. We can craft fantastic protest signs, us mini gamers you know .

 

[KeithMc]

I had my doubts when we started this project, and was prepared to hack the rules into a very abstract and streamlined form.

Didn't need to. Once a proportion of 'guff' had been chopped, and the Cover rules re-jinked (they needed it, we were told. . .), then we were suddenly looking at a double-sided A3 sheet. . .

Not only did it cover all slaient points, but it also added some new things, such as Suppression.

If they are done is there any chance we could actually get a look at them? If nothing else it might be worth doing a little Beta testing before they have to be 'set in stone'.

Keith Mc

 

[Bluefool]

If they are done is there any chance we could actually get a look at them? If nothing else it might be worth doing a little Beta testing before they have to be 'set in stone'.

Keith Mc

Hear hear! Even seeing a signs and portents article on them would go a long way to laying my fears to rest.

Gimme a battle report of the new system, and I'll be frolicking in glee once again!