Star Frontiers conversion

[The Vrusk]

Hey all!

I just finished running a Star Frontiers module for my son and his friend using Savage Worlds. Good times had by all. Questions:

1. Is there an existing Star Fronters conversion for MongTrav or CT?

2. If not, would any of you folks be interested in seeing one?

3. For admins/Mongooses (?): If I were to create up such a conversion, is there any space to officially publish it. Obviously not as a product, but perhaps a magazine article?

 

[mr31337]

I'd be interested in seeing one. Many of the materials in Star Frontiers were of excellent quality and detail. IIRC Star Frontiers was a d100 game? So what we're really talking about is a slick way to convert to and from 2d6 to 1d100? I've seen people try and do this before, but they're usually very clunky. Good luck!

 

[GypsyComet]

is there any space to officially publish it. Obviously not as a product, but perhaps a magazine article?

"Official" would require the permission of the holders of the Star Frontiers IP. TSR -> WotC -> Hasbro. Good luck with that. If the authors have somehow extracted the game from Hasbro's clutches, you might have a chance, but Star Frontiers was one of several SF RPGs written in "response" to Traveller. Whether as an attempt to "improve" on perceived shortcomings, ride Traveller's coat-tails, or as open competition (SF was from that era at TSR), you may find resistance from that angle as well.

 

[rust]

If the authors have somehow extracted the game from Hasbro's clutches ...

It seems so, at least it is possible to download all the Star Frontiers
material for free, and also the magazine Star Frontiersman, which is
still published:
http://starfrontiersman.com/downloads/remastered

 

[The Vrusk]

is there any space to officially publish it. Obviously not as a product, but perhaps a magazine article?

"Official" would require the permission of the holders of the Star Frontiers IP. TSR -> WotC -> Hasbro. Good luck with that. If the authors have somehow extracted the game from Hasbro's clutches, you might have a chance, but Star Frontiers was one of several SF RPGs written in "response" to Traveller. Whether as an attempt to "improve" on perceived shortcomings, ride Traveller's coat-tails, or as open competition (SF was from that era at TSR), you may find resistance from that angle as well.

So negative! Star Frontiers had one site (taken down due to funding) that had scans of all the original books, plus evidence the site owner has tacit permission from TSR to do so.

And, as noted there is also the excellent Star Frontiers Remastered site with its magazine.

Gee - why so competitive? I am really bored with OTU - I played it since 1984. But I love what Mongoose has done with the system. That's what matters. It is a minimalist, rules-light, old-school-feel system that enjoys using sub-tables and charts, unique rules, and yet has at least a framework on which to hang sci-fi. MongTrav make character generation excellent, added a ground vehicle rules system that is breathtakingly simple, and fixed other issues.

All without the ridiculous math of MegaTraveller and GURPS Traveller (who reallty cares, in a game, how many cubic lites of fuel your motorcycle has or how much it displaces?), the feat spam and restrictiveness of d20, et. al. I just wished I'd picked it up years ago along with Savage Worlds.

I think OTU has it's place as a setting. But it certainly isn't what Traveller is. Remember, I played this sucker in the very beginning when the Imperium was still just an inkling. Really, using Traveller assumed technology as a base is fine ... no one claims it is anything near realistic. But it's a framework. From there, you can go have fun. (Hell, Star Frontiers is all kinds of messed up when it comes to realistic (?) tech development).

So my plan is not to "ride on the coattails" or conduct competition or anything. My love is for the Traveller game and the Star Frontiers setting. FFS, don't we all love science-fiction and isn't that the purpose?

I just spend $75.00 on your books, and if this is the kind of 'official' response I get, I have to wonder...

edit: my bad, I thought you were with Mongoose. Sorry. Still, my point stands. Sci-fi is fun and we should encourage using Traveller to play it. Or I could just go back to Savage Worlds. *shrug*

 

[Gypsy Knights Games]

Hey all!

I just finished running a Star Frontiers module for my son and his friend using Savage Worlds. Good times had by all. Questions:

1. Is there an existing Star Fronters conversion for MongTrav or CT?

2. If not, would any of you folks be interested in seeing one?

3. For admins/Mongooses (?): If I were to create up such a conversion, is there any space to officially publish it. Obviously not as a product, but perhaps a magazine article?

I'm not aware of an existing conversion from SF to Mongoose Traveller, but I'd certainly like to see one if you do it (just for my own personal interest). I loved SF back in the day. It was the first RPG I ever played.

As for publishing it at all, well, you're going to have problems with that I suspect. You'll need to get permission from both the SF people (whether or not that's the authors or Hasbro I have no idea) and from Mongoose (which would be Matthew Sprange, you'll see him from time to time on here). I don't know, but I suspect that would be a difficult task to get permission to publish such a thing even as a magazine article.

 

[The Vrusk]

Thanks John,

That's more along the lines of info I was after. So even a magazine article would be off? I guess it would not hurt to try to ask both parties. If they don't go for it, I'll just make my own and pass it around to whomever.

Hmmm ... there use to be a site back in the day with all sorts of trav stuff ... Downport ... freeport ... something. :?

 

[rust]

Hmmm ... there use to be a site back in the day with all sorts of trav stuff ... Downport ... freeport ... something. :?

There are several such websites, like for example this one:
http://zho.berka.com/

 

[BP]

http://www.downport.com/

As to an article covering MgT/Star Frontier conversions, an email to the folks at http://www.starfrontiersman.com/ and to Matt might quickly address this (and provide an appropriate place to 'publish').

Enjoy!

 

[Putraack]

As to an article covering MgT/Star Frontier conversions, an email to the folks at http://www.starfrontiersman.com/ and to Matt might quickly address this (and provide an appropriate place to 'publish').

Agreed, SFMan might be a better place. The forums there are reasonably active, and I know there are some Traveller fans there, too. I mused about such a setup myself once, but never really got pencil to paper on that.

 

[GypsyComet]

So negative!

Dose of reality, really.

In the days of frequent paper magazines you could get away with paid publication of some things you can't now. While often hailed as a step forward for game design and publication, the OGL of D&D 3.x fame actually ended the era of friendly "compatible" articles forever. That magazines were already a dead format walking was beside the point.

Also, WotC and Hasbro had a brief period when they would entertain interested parties extracting old games from the collection. That then stopped when Hasbro realized they were encouraging competition. The best known case was Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, extracted by a persistent millionaire. Nothing has made it out since, that I know of. The D20 Modern/Future line made it clear that Hasbro/WotC still considers Star Frontiers and Star*Drive theirs. A website might get away with publishing cross-over rules, but any hint that money is being made will get you, and probably your ISP, a nasty letter. If they invoke DMCA you won't even have much recourse, and Heaven help you if you put the same material up somewhere else after that.

The days of "better to ask forgiveness than permission" are gone.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Could be worse... you could use something from Tolkien's works, then you'd be in trouble.

 

[The Vrusk]

So negative!

Dose of reality, really.

In the days of frequent paper magazines you could get away with paid publication of some things you can't now. While often hailed as a step forward for game design and publication, the OGL of D&D 3.x fame actually ended the era of friendly "compatible" articles forever. That magazines were already a dead format walking was beside the point.

Also, WotC and Hasbro had a brief period when they would entertain interested parties extracting old games from the collection. That then stopped when Hasbro realized they were encouraging competition. The best known case was Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, extracted by a persistent millionaire. Nothing has made it out since, that I know of. The D20 Modern/Future line made it clear that Hasbro/WotC still considers Star Frontiers and Star*Drive theirs. A website might get away with publishing cross-over rules, but any hint that money is being made will get you, and probably your ISP, a nasty letter. If they invoke DMCA you won't even have much recourse, and Heaven help you if you put the same material up somewhere else after that.

The days of "better to ask forgiveness than permission" are gone.

Good points. Sorry to come across sound like I was on the muscle. It's a shame such animosity exists. In a way, I wish WOTC had not done OGL - seems to have created a whole host of unintended side-effects. Road to hell, and all that.

I like the ideas of posting at Starfrontiersman. I could also post here, I suppose. As long as there is no inkling of commerical use, I think it would be OK. Not like the WOTC police will hunt me down.

So, no articles in "official" publications and certainly no commercial stand-along products. But OK for fan stuff, is that about it?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Thanks John,

That's more along the lines of info I was after. So even a magazine article would be off? I guess it would not hurt to try to ask both parties. If they don't go for it, I'll just make my own and pass it around to whomever.

Hmmm ... there use to be a site back in the day with all sorts of trav stuff ... Downport ... freeport ... something. :?

WotC published the races of Star Frontiers campaign in their D20 Future supplement along with some campaign called Star Law which the description sounded like SF. The Sathar were published in a free Web download.
They are there in D20 terms, not useful for the SF to Traveller conversion thing, just pointing out that WotC published stuff, had the rights or at the least the freedom to publish such stuff back in August 2004 when it came out.

 

[GJD]

I post over at SFMan (and here, obviously) as GJD. I also do occasional pieces of art (two of the covers of SFMan are mine). Be interested to see what you have.

G.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Hey The Vrusk, here you go for a start. Keep in mind Traveller does not really have a thing called game balance when it comes to races:
Drasalite
- Notable Strength (+1), Notable Endurance (+1)
- Weak Intelligence (-1)
- Slow Movement: 3 meters (Humans move 6 meters per round).
- Elasticity: A Drasalite can form extra limbs, a number of limbs equal to ther Dexterity. Growing or shrinking a limb takes five minutes and only one limb may be modified at a time.
- Lie Detection - Drasalites have skill called Lie Detection and begin with Lie Detection 0. Succeeding at a Formidable (-6) task allows a Drasalite to determine if a statement made by a character is knowingly lying.

Vrusk
- Notable Intelligence (+1)
- Weak Strength (-1), Weak Endurance (-1)
- Fast Movement: 9 meters. (Humans move 6 meters per round).
- Ambidexterity: A Vrusk may use either left or right arms equally without penalty. If a Vrusk attempts Multiple Actions (see Skills and Tasks), both actions only incur a -1DM as long as both tasks only require one hand/arm.
- Comprehension: Vrusk has a special skill called Comprehension and begin with Comprehension (0). Succeeding at a Very Difficult (-4) task allows a Vrusk to understand other characters and NPC motives sim[ly by observing body language, visual clues and so on.

Yazarian
- Notable Dexterity (+1), Notable Intelligence (+1)
- Weak Strength (-2), Weak Endurance (-2)
- Light Sensitive: Yazarians having nocturnal origins, can see in more easily in the dark and remove up to -2 in vision penalties due to darkness. This only removes penalties. In normal light conditions, a Yazarian without vision production incur a +2DM to all tasks requiring sight.
- Flyer: Yazarians have the ability to glide for short distnaces and begin with Athletics (Flyer) 0. Yazarians are limited to gliding on planets with a gravity between .6 and 1.0 (UWP size 6 -9) and atmospheric pressures of at least .7 atm. (UWP atmosphere 6-9). Gliding speed is 6 meters per round.
- Battle Rage: Yazarians are known to fly into a frenzy which is sometimes useful in combat. Yazarians have a skill Battle Rage 0. Only Yazarians have this skill. To benefit a Yazarian, as a minor action must concentrate to enter this state and succeed with a Formidable (-6) Battle Rage task roll. Only Yazarians have this skill. If successful, a Yazarian has a +4 DM to Melee combat skill tasks, including Grappling. The Battle Rage only lasts at most a number rounds equal to the Yazarian's Endurance, but a Yazarian is automatically Fatigued regarless of the number of rounds the Battle Rage was used. A Yazarian may increase this skill instead taking a Melee or Athletics skill increase.

The racial skills above can also be improved during character creation selecting by homeworld or education skill to bring the skill up to 1.

 

[The Vrusk]

Nice! :mrgreen:

 

[sjmiller]

I agree with the majority here that getting an official conversion published would be difficult, not impossible, but difficult. However if you wanted to create a conversion and post it up somewhere for free, I don't see that any IP holder could say much. I've seen mods for dozens of games posted in various forums for lots of IPs You yourself even said you ran SF using Savage Worlds. The issue isn't the conversion and whether you should or shouldn't do one, the issue is money. If you or someone else is making money off someone else's IP, the IP holder will either make you stop or demand some or all of said money and likely both. So my suggestion is, if you want to try to make a conversion, do so just don't try to make it official. On the other hand if you would like to try to make it official, good luck and make sure you cover all the legal angles before hand to avoid issues later.

I have to say that quite a bit of the information/advice that you give here is flawed and a tad misinformed. As someone who holds the IP rights to a specific game setting, I would be within my rights to ask you not to publish something for free that is based on my intellectual property. I could, if it became necessary, seek legal injunction against the posting of this material, as it infringes on my rights to this material.

Just because you do not make money off of it does not mean it is okay to use someone's IP without permission. You are still using, and quite likely altering, an IP in a manner that the owner of the property does not wish to have done. As an example, many people have published free versions of Harry Potter RPGs and RPG conversions. None of them are legal, and JK Rowling is perfectly within her rights to have them cease distributing it.

If you ask me, most likely, I will say yes to rule conversions. There are a few conversions I would have to decline permission to post, but that is mostly because I am currently working on conversions that will be published shortly. Of the ones I would allow, I would want to be able to look at it before it is distributed, to make sure you are not doing anything with it that I would find objectionable or would tarnish the IP in question.

If you want to do an RPG conversion of a published intellectual property, it is always best to ask if it is okay. Finding out it is not okay will save you a lot of grief in the long run.

 

[Gypsy Knights Games]

Thanks John,

That's more along the lines of info I was after. So even a magazine article would be off? I guess it would not hurt to try to ask both parties. If they don't go for it, I'll just make my own and pass it around to whomever.

Hmmm ... there use to be a site back in the day with all sorts of trav stuff ... Downport ... freeport ... something. :?

Not a problem. Hope it helped.

However, I must tell you that an online magazine or a website would be included in the "publish at all" to which I referred. Even placed in a free magazine or made freely available on a website, you'd still need to get permission from both Mongoose and whoever holds the ownership of Star Frontiers.

Can't hurt to ask though. You might get a "Sure! Go ahead!" In all honesty, I have doubts that would be the answer though.

Good luck!