SST EV Preview Cards - More MI Reinforcements have Arrived

[Lorcan Nagle]

Not really, it's just the damage dice allocation rule in effect.

 

[Galatea]

I didn't meet anyone that did understand that on their first try.

Yes, the examples are a bit strange. I understood it on second try.

Not really, it's just the damage dice allocation rule in effect.

But it is a TEMPLATE. It is meant to make Boom where it comes down.
It is NOT fire spread over a wide area, so the firezone (representing exactly this) makes absolutely no sense here.
A Grenade doesn't teleport to the nearest enemy's head if you throw in 2 meters behind him.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Ordnance weapons aren't templates in BF/SST:Evo. You assign the first damage dice to the nearest target in the fire zone, and all adjacent models get the blast damage. Just like RPGs and Grenades.

 

[Galatea]

Effectively it IS a template.
With the same ease you could say that there aren't any multihit-models in Evo, only models that can ignore more or less failed armour saves. But effectively they DO have more than one hitpoint.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I see where you're coming from, but multihit models under the old rules work more or less like tough models do now and similarly to many other wargames, while weapons that do splash damage patently do not work like traditional template weapons (like 40k, Warmachine/hordes or SST v1), so comparing the two directly is futile.

 

[Galatea]

They still do work very traditional.
The exception is that now two players need to roll a dice for deviation (and both decide where they want to have the target point shifted) and that you shift the target point over the nearest model when you have found out where the projectile should come down.
Damage radius is still a template - call it splash damage or whatever but it is still a template. And you still do have deviation though it is mostly cancelled out by shifting the target point over the nearest model.

In fact even GWs deviation rules are far superior to THAT thing - 40k's because it's easy and fast (even if not really logical) and WHFB's because it's kinda logical and appropriate to the setting.

 

[Gauntlet-]

I agree with Galatea, but this should be discussed in its own thread no?

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

At this point it's pretty clear that Galatea and I aren't going to agree and I'm more than willing to drop it. I'll just say in conclusion that I've used the ordnance weapons rules and they took a matter of seconds to resolve, so I can't possibly consider them complex.

 

[Hiromoon]

Updated with two new cards. Check the first post in the thread.

 

[Paladin]

Got any new cards yet? :wink:

 

[Paladin]

Should the armor on the PAMI be 3 or 4? The Javelin has it at 4, but the main squad has it at 4.


Why do the Underslung Grenade Launchers require a Ready action in SST:Evo but not in BF:Evo

 

[Paladin]

Not really, it's just the damage dice allocation rule in effect.

But it is a TEMPLATE. It is meant to make Boom where it comes down.
It is NOT fire spread over a wide area, so the firezone (representing exactly this) makes absolutely no sense here.
A Grenade doesn't teleport to the nearest enemy's head if you throw in 2 meters behind him.

I don't believe you are resolving the Fire Zones properly. You designate a point on the board as the center of the FZ, whether it be a model or just a point on the ground. The center point then shifts away and back after the dice are rolled. Enemies in range are then determined by the area of effect (whether by template or measuring) and damage dice are rolled. You outlined the rules previously, but said they were the old system...

Current rules:
- Declare target point
- roll 2 dice
- subtract/add dice numbers
- shift target point the appropriate distance
- lay template down
- roll weapons damage dice against models under template

 

[Benwick]

I still hope, MGP will keep the great SST V1 rules and kick those awful Evo rules into the bin. :evil:
I did not switch from 40K to SST just to play a new kind of simplified unambitious kiddie rules.

 

[Galatea]

Not really, it's just the damage dice allocation rule in effect.

But it is a TEMPLATE. It is meant to make Boom where it comes down.
It is NOT fire spread over a wide area, so the firezone (representing exactly this) makes absolutely no sense here.
A Grenade doesn't teleport to the nearest enemy's head if you throw in 2 meters behind him.

I don't believe you are resolving the Fire Zones properly. You designate a point on the board as the center of the FZ, whether it be a model or just a point on the ground. The center point then shifts away and back after the dice are rolled. Enemies in range are then determined by the area of effect (whether by template or measuring) and damage dice are rolled. You outlined the rules previously, but said they were the old system...

Current rules:
- Declare target point
- roll 2 dice
- subtract/add dice numbers
- shift target point the appropriate distance
- lay template down
- roll weapons damage dice against models under template

You should read my entire post:

It is still silly complicated.

Current rules:
- Declare target point
- roll 2 dice
- subtract/add dice numbers
- shift target point the appropriate distance
- lay template down
- roll weapons damage dice against models under template

EVO rules:
- Declare target point
- Player A roll 2 dice
- add dice numbers
- shift target point the appropriate distance
- Player B roll 1 dice
- shift target point the appropriate distance
- determine firezone
- find nearest model in firezone
- shift target point to nearest model in FZ
- lay template down
-- roll damage against models under template
-- in some cases:
--- Roll weapons damage dice against target model
--- Roll other damage dice (weaker damage) against all other models under template

Now tell me which version is more intuitive, works faster and is less complicated.


p.s. I had NEVER ANY guy who didn't understand the old artillery rules when told the first time.

In the Evo rules you first determine the point where the bullet comes down (with two players rolling dice and shifting the target point), then measure a firezone, and then shift the target point of the bullet to the nearest model in the firezone.
This model is then getting hit by the bullet and all the other models around it get splash damage. So effectively you teleport the bullet at the head of the nearest model (if you have one in the firezone, otherwise the bullet lands in nomansland).

 

[Paladin]

shift the target point of the bullet to the nearest model in the firezone.

Where are you getting this???

 

[Galatea]

"The damage dice are rolled against every model within 3" of the center of the model it's first damage dice is allocated to [...]".

They don't say "shift the template over the nearest model in the FZ" but effectively you DO exactly this.

 

[Paladin]

I still hope, MGP will keep the great SST V1 rules and kick those awful Evo rules into the bin. :evil:
I did not switch from 40K to SST just to play a new kind of simplified unambitious kiddie rules.

Have you played with the "kinder rules" yet or just bashing them blindly as they represent change? There is whole lot of content that isn't contained in the basic rule set and would be filled out in the advanced rules set book, and that has yet to release yet. So with all due respect it's a little early to be trashing a ruleset considering it doesn't exist to the public yet.

 

[Paladin]

"The damage dice are rolled against every model within 3" of the center of the model it's first damage dice is allocated to [...]".

They don't say "shift the template over the nearest model in the FZ" but effectively you DO exactly this.

Ah. That is not a correct interpretation.

If the template covers 3 models and the damage is 3xD6 per model, you roll 9xD6 total and then distribute them from highest to lowest against the available targets with any after the first 3 dice being allocated at the attacker's choice.

For example:
Roll: 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1
The 1 is discarded as a miss.
Model 1 = 6
Model 2 = 6
Model 3 = 5

You can then apply the other 5, 4, 3, 2, 2 as fitting (if they will hit the target score)

 

[MaxSteiner]

I still hope, MGP will keep the great SST V1 rules and kick those awful Evo rules into the bin. :evil:
I did not switch from 40K to SST just to play a new kind of simplified unambitious kiddie rules.

Have you played with the "kinder rules" yet or just bashing them blindly as they represent change? There is whole lot of content that isn't contained in the basic rule set and would be filled out in the advanced rules set book, and that has yet to release yet. So with all due respect it's a little early to be trashing a ruleset considering it doesn't exist to the public yet.

I think thats a bit unfair.
If you play SST:V1 and enjoy it, then there are grounds to bash a cut down version of the rules set which removes all the good bits.
Its not that the Evo rules represent change thats causing problems, its that they represent an actual step backwards.
Anything thats added in the Advance book is just going to be stuff they removed from V1 anyway. The only truly new rule I think we've seen so far is shatter point, and the best thing that anyones ever said about that is that it wont be the onlyvictory condition in the Adv rule book!

Its been promised that there will be a great deal of fluff in the advanced book (As long as they didn't mean the three pages of Forth background we've seen...), and Im assuming there must be something else in there because they had to take the army lists out to make space...
But as far as rules go, what are they gonna put in, the old tunneling rules, the flight rules probably some campaign rules if we're lucky, and thats about it.

 

[Paladin]

I still hope, MGP will keep the great SST V1 rules and kick those awful Evo rules into the bin. :evil:
I did not switch from 40K to SST just to play a new kind of simplified unambitious kiddie rules.

Have you played with the "kinder rules" yet or just bashing them blindly as they represent change? There is whole lot of content that isn't contained in the basic rule set and would be filled out in the advanced rules set book, and that has yet to release yet. So with all due respect it's a little early to be trashing a ruleset considering it doesn't exist to the public yet.

I think thats a bit unfair.
If you play SST:V1 and enjoy it, then there are grounds to bash a cut down version of the rules set which removes all the good bits.
Its not that the Evo rules represent change thats causing problems, its that they represent an actual step backwards.
Anything thats added in the Advance book is just going to be stuff they removed from V1 anyway. The only truly new rule I think we've seen so far is shatter point, and the best thing that anyones ever said about that is that it wont be the onlyvictory condition in the Adv rule book!

You've proved my point precisely. He's being unfair and prejudging the rules. No one is forcing the change. The only thing that would need to be adapted for old players would be to adapt stat cards of new units as a they release and there are lplenty of fans to do that.