Spacecombat - couple of questions

Denalor

Mongoose
We have had a lot of discussion during the first spacefight and I've come up with the following houserules, which I would like to have commented on by the more knowledgeable folks here.
Thanks in advance

Firing Beam Weapons
Firing multiple shots form a turret (double, -tripple) is not considered as multiple action. Therefore, no penalty applies.
Each shot is treated separately (i,e. roll for attack, damage, hit-location)
Software-mods (Firecontrol, Evade) apply to all beam shots from a single turret. Reactions (Dodge, Fire Sand) apply to all shots from a single turret.
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple actions applies.

Point Defense
Missiles are assumed to be shot at close (edit from discussion below) distance, range mods for the weapon apply. There is no effect for having mutliple beam weapons available in a single turret

Launching Missiles
The gunner can launch all missiles of his turret at once without suffering from multiple-action mods.
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple action applies.

Dodge
The DM from a successful Dodge is applied to all shots from a single turret.
As for the Pilot-DM to the Dodge
Yes, this will need playtesting.
Use the same mechanism as in "Task Chain" (or in missile launching) and add the general DM-2 to the result.
E.g. pilot dodges and rolls 8 +2(Pilot skill) +1(Dex) = 11, effect 3, effect 3 nets an additional DM+1 (DM-3 for failure by 6+, DM-2 for failure by 2-5, DM-1 for failure by 1, DM+0 for effect 0, DM+1 for effect 1-5, DM+2 for effect 6+) for a total DM-3 to the shot series of a single turret.
(edit from deiscussion below

Firing Sand
The mods from sand apply to all shots from a single turret

Software – Firecontrol
If used to actually fire beam weapons, the software is able to fire all equal weapons fro ma single turret.
E.G. turret beam laser/beam laser/missile rack: the software may spend a single "use" (i.e. firecontrol/1) to fire either both beam lasers or the missile rack
(edit from discussion below)
If used to apply a bonus to an attack, the bonus applies to all shots from a turret.

Software – Evade
The bonus applies to all shots from a single turret.
The bonus may also apply to a single missile (or flight of missiles if launched simultaneously from one turret/bay).

Damage
The effect of the beam attack is added to the damage. The effect of the (actual) missile attack (i.e. not the launching) is added to the damage.
If the effect of the actual hit is 6+, damage is minimum 1 regardless of armour (taken from personal combat due to the invulnerabilty of e.g. Gazelle Close Escort regarding Pulse Lasers and non-nuclear missiles)

Targeting
A turret must fire all its weapons at a single target. However a second turret may fire at a different opponent.

Dodge/Evade
If the pilot decides to dodge the software evade is overridden. Once all incoming attacks are known, it must be decided to which attacks dodge and/or evade applies before the attack roll is made (edit from discussion below)

Reactions
Different stations can react simultaneously to a threat, e.g. both the pilot and the gunners can react to an incoming missile by "dodge" or "point defence" respectively. This includes the same option for multiple turrets (i.e. two turrets can react to incoming missiles) and also the possiblity to jam smart missiles. Each reaction cost one of the available reactions though
 
Denalor said:
Firing Beam Weapons
Firing multiple shots form a turret (double, -tripple) is not considered as multiple action. Therefore, no penalty applies.
Each shot is treated separately (i,e. roll for attack, damage, hit-location)
Software-mods (Firecontrol, Evade) apply to all beam shots from a single turret. Reactions (Dodge, Fire Sand) apply to all shots from a single turret.
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple actions applies.

Makes perfect sense to me. Of course, if they start tangling with large ships (800 dtons+), this can lead to handfuls of different colored dice being needed but that can be fun too. (old Starfleet Battles fan here)

Point Defense
Missiles are assumed to be shot at adjacent distance, range mods for the weapon apply. There is no effect for having mutliple beam weapons available in a single turret

I'd go with "Close" distance instead of Adjacent. Adjacent is defined in the core book as "docked ships". By then, it's too late to try to shoot the missile. And nukes at less than 10km may do damage just via the radiation wavefront (any physics gurus on who can confirm this?).

Launching Missiles
The gunner can launch all missiles of his turret at once without suffering from multiple-action mods.
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple action applies.

Works for me as well.

Dodge
The DM from a successful Dodge is applied to all shots from a single turret.

I'd go so far as to say Dodge is applied to all incoming attacks during the round the Dodge is applied.

Firing Sand
The mods from sand apply to all shots from a single turret

Agreed.

Software – Firecontrol
If used to actually fire beam weapons, the software is only able to fire discrete weapons, not whole turrets.
If used to apply a bonus to an attack, the bonus applies to all shots from a turret.

Hmmm. I went with the software being able to fire all the turrets in a single turret but only if all the weapons were exactly the same type and all were firing at exactly the same target. I may be wrong, though; this might be my MegaTraveller bias showing.

Software – Evade
The bonus applies to all shots from a single turret.
The bonus may also apply to a single missile (or flight of missiles if launched simultaneously from one turret/bay).

Again, I apply Evade to all incoming attacks that attempt to strike during the same round the Evade is applied. Evade is, after all, nothing more (or less) then a Dodge being attempted by the ship's computer, rather than the ship's pilot.

Damage
The effect of the beam attack is added to the damage. The effect of the (actual) missile attack (i.e. not the launching) is added to the damage.
If the effect of the actual hit is 6+, damage is minimum 1 regardless of armour (taken from personal combat due to the invulnerabilty of e.g. Gazelle Close Escort regarding Pulse Lasers and non-nuclear missiles)

Oh, I like this. *sound of data being saved to a hard drive*

Targeting
A turret must fire all its weapons at a single target. However a second turret may fire at a different opponent.

Yep, with one modification. If the turret contains weapons with a different type of attack (beam vs. missile vs. sandcaster), then the different weapons can be used against different targets. Of course, this means the turret gunner is performing multiple tasks and must suffer the penalties for doing so.

Dodge/Evade
It is possible to apply both DM to an attack.

Woops! 'Fraid not. Either the ship's computer is handling the Dodging (which is what the Evade is) or the pilot is. One or the other, not both, can be applied. Suppose the computer wants to zig to port and down while the pilot wants to zag to starboard and up? Net result: no change in ship's vector..for which the incoming missile spread is very grateful.

Reactions
Different stations can react simultaneously to a threat, e.g. both the pilot and the gunners can react to an incoming missile by "dodge" or "point defence" respectively. This includes the same option for multiple turrets (i.e. two turrets can react to incoming missiles) and also the possiblity to jam smart missiles. Each reaction cost one of the available reactions though

I've made the same ruling.
 
SSWarlock said:
Point Defense
Missiles are assumed to be shot at adjacent distance, range mods for the weapon apply. There is no effect for having mutliple beam weapons available in a single turret

I'd go with "Close" distance instead of Adjacent. Adjacent is defined in the core book as "docked ships". By then, it's too late to try to shoot the missile. And nukes at less than 10km may do damage just via the radiation wavefront (any physics gurus on who can confirm this?).

Now. As I UnderStand The Matter. Nuclear weapons aren't effective in space, because the nuclear wavefront needs an atmosphere to be carried in, so they would need to actually penetrate the hull* of a ship to give radiation damage. Unless they're bomb-pumped lasers, which would actually attack as some sort of laser, or possibly some sort of plasma/fusion weapon if you wanted.


*Nuke missiles penetrating the hull is pretty much how I pictured it anyways, with the impact serving as the signal to detonate.
 
SSWarlock said:
Jame Rowe said:
Now. As I UnderStand The Matter. Nuclear weapons aren't effective in space, because...

And that works for me too. :D

Nuclear weapons are effective in space, just in a different way - as was proven by physicists during the development of the Orion project (a spacecraft that used nuclear weapons as a method of propulsion).

While you cannot have a blast wave in space, you can still have radiation, heat and plasma. Radiation will affect the structure of the craft (by transmutation of materials), its electronic systems (by damage to semiconductors from fast fission fragments and alpha, beta and neutron radiation) and to its crew (by radiation poisoning). Heat will affect a spacecraft by direct radiation affecting the structure of the craft. Finally, as the Orion engineers proved, a nuclear device can be constructed to generate a shaped jet of plasma that would be perfectly capable of damaging a spacecraft. These "nuclear shaped charges" do have other uses, but they were originally developed for Orion.

For further information, try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion). Alternatively, try looking up Casaba Howitzer (the USAF codename for the weapons system intended for Orion).
 
:shock:
...

Incorporating that challenges my assumptions too much.


:lol: :P

On the other hand, that could be the origin of the fusion-gun Missile!
 
Jame Rowe said:
On the other hand, that could be the origin of the fusion-gun Missile!

And the source of the nuclear torpedo detailed in the upcoming High Guard supplement.

6d6 damage + an auto rad hit and flights of them can be launched by capital ships.

:shock:

Don't mess with the big boys.
 
Nukes are still dangerous but the range is reduced as there is no atmosphere to transmit a shock wave, there will be blast but it will attenuate rapidly with range as will all the effects - in all three dimensions as a sphere (George Lucas please note). This is I think the main cause of damage for one set off in an atmosphere.

Effects:
Blast.
Heat.
Radiation (lots of different wavelengths). Potentially much more dangerous as there is no atmosphere to absorb it. Fortunately ships will already have some level of shielding.

A ship very close to the nuke is probably gone but those further away will loose surface fittings - turrets and sensors. The effects will decrease in proportion to the square of the range I would imagine.

This is just on the edge of my knowledge so I would not be at all surprised if I was wrong but it seems to make sense.
 
Point Defence
I'd go with "Close" distance instead of Adjacent.
Yep, that's better... but then you really don't need the pulse laser anymore, as the range DM of beam and pulse laser are the same at close range.

Dodge
I'd go so far as to say Dodge is applied to all incoming attacks during the round the Dodge is applied.
Aplpy a single dodge attempt to all incoming beam fire ? That makes the Dodge IMHO by far too powerful and too "cheap". After all you have to save thrust to be able to dodge (1 thrust per dodge, page 147/149).
If you only need to do this once, you are severely reducing the combat advantage of fast ships in comparison to slow ships. Take the Corsair, it has no armour but a rather high thrust. I assumed it used the whole thrust to dodge the beams.
By the way, I'm considering to somehow use the effect of the dodge roll as another DM to... well... "counterbalance" the effect ruling of the attack (i.e. the application of the effect to damage). But I'm not quite sure if this will unbalance the whole thing. DM-2 for a successful dodge is not that good. Given FireControl software it is all too easy to negate that "mere" DM-2, do that with a big gun and your enemy is splattered... opinions ?

FireControl
I went with the software being able to fire all the turrets in a single turret but only if all the weapons were exactly the same type and all were firing at exactly the same target.
Yep, that is better

Evade
I apply Evade to all incoming attacks that attempt to strike during the same round the Evade is applied
Well, what is the use of Evade/2 or Evade/3 then (page 113) ? Do you apply the DM to different enemy ships ?

Dodge/Evade
Okay, your explanation definitely makes sense. I'm just wondering how it would actually work out. Who/What decides which shot the ship dodges ? After all, you have loaded the software in the ship action phase, so the ship will definitely dodge anyway. You could determine that the manual dodge overides the software or treat the software as a sort of saftey belt in case you dodge attempt fails.
 
klingsor said:
Nukes are still dangerous but the range is reduced as there is no atmosphere to transmit a shock wave, there will be blast but it will attenuate rapidly with range as will all the effects - in all three dimensions as a sphere (George Lucas please note). This is I think the main cause of damage for one set off in an atmosphere.

Effects:
Blast.
Heat.
Radiation (lots of different wavelengths). Potentially much more dangerous as there is no atmosphere to absorb it. Fortunately ships will already have some level of shielding.

A ship very close to the nuke is probably gone but those further away will loose surface fittings - turrets and sensors. The effects will decrease in proportion to the square of the range I would imagine.

This is just on the edge of my knowledge so I would not be at all surprised if I was wrong but it seems to make sense.

I think that what you note as blast effect is what is propagated thru the atmosphere. However, and I wish i could remember where I read this (COTI ? Freelance Traveller ?)
but I do recall that in a nuke blast, there is a massive burst of soft xrays which are normally absorbed almost immediately by the atmosphere (this may be the source of some of the EMP ? I'm guessing here) , but in space will actually act as a kinetic wavefront....they don't necc penetrate the hulls, but they do hit it hard enough to do significant damage.

Plus, even for Rad damage, its fairly easy to massively up the output of neutrons from a nuke - and I suspect that this would be a major tweak for space nukes.


This is just on the edge of my knowledge, also, so I would not be at all surprised if I was wrong. Any objective or technical knowlege would be appreciated.
 
Denalor said:
Point Defence
I'd go with "Close" distance instead of Adjacent.
Yep, that's better... but then you really don't need the pulse laser anymore, as the range DM of beam and pulse laser are the same at close range.

Eh? Range DM? What page are laser range DMs on? I missed them completely. (I must be going blind)

Denalor said:
Dodge
I'd go so far as to say Dodge is applied to all incoming attacks during the round the Dodge is applied.
Aplpy a single dodge attempt to all incoming beam fire ? That makes the Dodge IMHO by far too powerful and too "cheap". After all you have to save thrust to be able to dodge (1 thrust per dodge, page 147/149).
If you only need to do this once, you are severely reducing the combat advantage of fast ships in comparison to slow ships. Take the Corsair, it has no armour but a rather high thrust. I assumed it used the whole thrust to dodge the beams.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. After re-reading the section, I came to realize you're absolutely right. My bad.

Denalor said:
By the way, I'm considering to somehow use the effect of the dodge roll as another DM to... well... "counterbalance" the effect ruling of the attack (i.e. the application of the effect to damage). But I'm not quite sure if this will unbalance the whole thing. DM-2 for a successful dodge is not that good. Given FireControl software it is all too easy to negate that "mere" DM-2, do that with a big gun and your enemy is splattered... opinions ?

Hmmmm. You know..I can see using the Effect to give a better Dodge DM though I don't know exactly how to implement it. Maybe an Effect of 1 through 3 gives DM of -3 while Effect 4 through 6 gives a DM of -4? Me thinks this requires some good old-fashioned playtesting to see what works best.

Denalor said:
Evade
I apply Evade to all incoming attacks that attempt to strike during the same round the Evade is applied
Well, what is the use of Evade/2 or Evade/3 then (page 113) ? Do you apply the DM to different enemy ships ?

*unhappy sigh* Nerts. Looks like I misinterpreted it again. Well..that's why I visit this forum. :oops:

Denalor said:
Dodge/Evade
Okay, your explanation definitely makes sense. I'm just wondering how it would actually work out. Who/What decides which shot the ship dodges ? After all, you have loaded the software in the ship action phase, so the ship will definitely dodge anyway. You could determine that the manual dodge overides the software or treat the software as a sort of saftey belt in case you dodge attempt fails.

On this one, I'd say the pilot can override at will. That way, the software would handle any surprise attacks or take over if the pilot is unavailable for any reason. I'd also say that if a pilot decides he's going to override then is disabled, the software is disabled until the next round. Given the high techy-ness of Traveller, I assume the computer is programmed to automatically defer to a pilot, gunner, etc.

On the other hand, giving the software priority if it's loaded into the computer and requiring it be removed if a pilot wants to use his own skill for Dodging gives the crewperson running the computer something to do during combat.
 
klingsor said:
Nukes are still dangerous but the range is reduced as there is no atmosphere to transmit a shock wave, there will be blast but it will attenuate rapidly with range as will all the effects - in all three dimensions as a sphere (George Lucas please note).

Arguably the Death Star functioned as a shaping fragmentation layer on the core explosion, since the dock belt around the center probably had significant structural side-effects deep into the station. Jango Fett's Tectonic Bombs could have easily been a TDX equivalent, focusing their energy to have more effect in a limited arc.
 
Eh? Range DM?

It's right here:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/travpg.pdf

I absolutely agree with your comment about the override. If the pilot decides to dodge, the Evade software cannot be applied to that turret shot-series.
However, since we have now come to the understanding that a dodge (or evade) can (only) be applied to a series of shots from a single turret (or bay), I think it is not necessary to "shut down" the whole software for the whole turn.
The pilot may dodge the first series of shots from turret A, but the shots of turret B may be evaded by the software.

As for the Pilot-DM to the Dodge
Yes, this will need playtesting.
I currently have two ideas:
a) Apply only the effect of the pilot roll as a dodge DM.
E.g. Pilot decides to dodge, rolls 8 +2(Pilot skill) +1(Dex) = 11, effect 3 => DM-3 to the shot series of a single turret.
This idea makes the Dodge rather unpredictable, both drastic failures and drastic successes are possible (for the pilot in the example DM+3 (roll of 2) to DM-7 (roll of 12))

b) Use the same mechanism as in "Task Chain" (or in missile launching)and add the general DM-2 to the result.
E.g. pilot dodges and rolls 8 +2(Pilot skill) +1(Dex) = 11, effect 3, effect 3 nets an additional DM+1 (DM-3 for failure by 6+, DM-2 for failure by 2-5, DM-1 for failure by 1, DM+0 for effect 0, DM+1 for effect 1-5, DM+2 for effect 6+) for a total DM-3 to the shot series of a single turret.
This will make a dodge more predictable: for the pilot in the example DM+0 (roll of 2) to DM-5 (roll of 12)

I prefer option b) because of the better predictability. Also option a) would make good pilot skills very vital. I can see that in a small 10dton fighter, but somehow the image of a 60.000dton cruiser dodging, rolling and weaving seems... umm... weird
 
Off topic but interesting. What effect would microgravity have on TDX? I think it might get confused - as it is gravitationally plane-polarised explosives.
 
Denalor said:

Doh! Thank you; I never thought to check for official errata, silly me.

The pilot may dodge the first series of shots from turret A, but the shots of turret B may be evaded by the software.

Hmm. This adds a bit more complexity to combat (which I try to avoid) but also forces the pilot/captain to decide when the pilot uses his abilities in combat, providing another player-managed tactical option (which I try to maximize). Personally, I think the added player option is worth the slight increase in complexity.

Yeah, I like this.

As for the Pilot-DM to the Dodge
<snip>
I prefer option b) because of the better predictability. Also option a) would make good pilot skills very vital. I can see that in a small 10dton fighter, but somehow the image of a 60.000dton cruiser dodging, rolling and weaving seems... umm... weird

Heh, space combat is weird (orbital mechanics problems give me a headache) but I'm with you on this, albeit for an additional reason..the reason being I like keeping DMs fairly low and a DM of -7 seems like a waste to me.

Good stuff, Delanor, good stuff indeed. Thank you for posting all this.

Time to playtest...
 
Good stuff, Delanor, good stuff indeed. Thank you for posting all this.

Well, wow, thank you very much :oops: !

I have updated the first message with the contents of the discussion, so anyone looking does not necessarily have to read all the stuff.
Thanks for the input !
 
Denalor said:
Firing Beam Weapons
Firing multiple shots form a turret (double, -tripple) is not considered as multiple action. Therefore, no penalty applies.
Each shot is treated separately (i,e. roll for attack, damage, hit-location)
“maybe.” I’d prefer to see an alternate rule allowing for fire linking similar weapons in a single turret to allow a single shot for more damage (I’m hoping this is in High Guard). Alternately the multi-turrets are just hard points to allow multiple weapon types. Weapons could switch between fire linked and separate as a free or minor action per round.

Denalor said:
Software-mods (Firecontrol, Evade) apply to all beam shots from a single turret.
Agreed
Denalor said:
Reactions (Dodge, Fire Sand) apply to all shots from a single turret.
Depends. See below

Denalor said:
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple actions applies.
Agreed.

Denalor said:
Point Defense
Missiles are assumed to be shot at close (edit from discussion below) distance, range mods for the weapon apply. There is no effect for having multiple beam weapons available in a single turret
Agreed. Range - “The missiles can only be destroyed in the moments before they strike the spacecraft as they are too small and fast-moving to effectively target at greater ranges.”
Multiple weapons in a turret make no difference since it’s assumed any hit auto destroys the missile regardless of damage.

Denalor said:
Launching Missiles
The gunner can launch all missiles of his turret at once without suffering from multiple-action mods.
If a gunner shoots both laser and missiles, the DM from multiple action applies.
Agreed. Though I would say that goes back to whether the weapons are fire linked or independent systems.
Non-linked = two separate attack rolls = higher chance to hit, but less damage on success;
Linked = one attack roll = more damage, but all or nothing on hit/miss.

Denalor said:
Dodge
The DM from a successful Dodge is applied to all shots from a single turret.
As for the Pilot-DM to the Dodge
Yes, this will need playtesting.
Use the same mechanism as in "Task Chain" (or in missile launching) and add the general DM-2 to the result.
E.g. pilot dodges and rolls 8 +2(Pilot skill) +1(Dex) = 11, effect 3, effect 3 nets an additional DM+1 (DM-3 for failure by 6+, DM-2 for failure by 2-5, DM-1 for failure by 1, DM+0 for effect 0, DM+1 for effect 1-5, DM+2 for effect 6+) for a total DM-3 to the shot series of a single turret.
(edit from deiscussion below

Denalor said:
Firing Sand
The mods from sand apply to all shots from a single turret
Agreed.
Mongoose: “Fire Sand
Turrets equipped with sandcasters can fire sand at incoming beam attacks. Each reaction spent on firing sand allows the gunner to make a Gunner (turrets) roll. If successful the damage of each beam in the incoming attack is reduced by 1d6. Resolve each beam separately. Each firing of sand costs one canister of sand.

This text implies multiple beams, but early in Reactions it speaks of reaction to a Beam attack in the singular text. I’d chalk that up to singular turret, possibly multiple beams in that turret. Though that breaks down when you cast a screen behind you and block the angle from multiple turrets. I don’t know.

Denalor said:
Software – Firecontrol
If used to actually fire beam weapons, the software is able to fire all equal weapons fro ma single turret.
E.G. turret beam laser/beam laser/missile rack: the software may spend a single "use" (i.e. firecontrol/1) to fire either both beam lasers or the missile rack
(edit from discussion below)
If used to apply a bonus to an attack, the bonus applies to all shots from a turret.
Auto = Software works just like a gunner. One weapon type = 1 attack.
Assist = bonus to the gunner

Denalor said:
Software – Evade
The bonus applies to all shots from a single turret.
The bonus may also apply to a single missile (or flight of missiles if launched simultaneously from one turret/bay).
See Dodge.

Denalor said:
Damage
The effect of the beam attack is added to the damage. The effect of the (actual) missile attack (i.e. not the launching) is added to the damage.
If the effect of the actual hit is 6+, damage is minimum 1 regardless of armour (taken from personal combat due to the invulnerabilty of e.g. Gazelle Close Escort regarding Pulse Lasers and non-nuclear missiles)
I would buy that and like that concept.

Denalor said:
Targeting
A turret must fire all its weapons at a single target. However a second turret may fire at a different opponent.
I disagree. If you've played any space combat video game, it is not hard to imagine multiple targets zooming past a view port in a very short time period and being able to hit them individually. I think each weapon may only make a single attack, but multiple weapons could be fired at separate targets but each additional attack would suffer the -2 DM penalty for Multiple Actions. This comes back to the fire linking above. Non-Fire linked weapons could be used to each aim for a separate target.

Denalor said:
Dodge/Evade
If the pilot decides to dodge the software evade is overridden. Once all incoming attacks are known, it must be decided to which attacks dodge and/or evade applies before the attack roll is made (edit from discussion below)
I disagree. The dodge should apply to all incoming attacks in the same way it does for evasive action in the ground vehicles rules. The pilot is spending the round flying erratically and makes him difficult to hit no matter who is targeting him. Watch the Millenium Falcon vs. TIE fighters and the Star Destroyers in Empire Strikes Back for a perfect example.

As a house rule, I might be in favor of applying the Dodge penalty to both the enemy and onboard gunners with some playtesting. If your pilot is flying like a erratic lunatic it's just as hard for you to know where to expect a target to be in your viewport. It would make the “Help line up a shot” more appealing and used more frequently.

Denalor said:
Reactions
Different stations can react simultaneously to a threat, e.g. both the pilot and the gunners can react to an incoming missile by "dodge" or "point defence" respectively. This includes the same option for multiple turrets (i.e. two turrets can react to incoming missiles) and also the possiblity to jam smart missiles. Each reaction cost one of the available reactions though
Agreed, although it is stated that duplicates of the same reaction can be done in the round. I would also house rule that any Gunner may hold their normal attack during the round to use it as a bonus reaction for Point Defense.
 
Fire-Link
I’d prefer to see an alternate rule allowing for fire linking similar weapons in a single turret to allow a single shot for more damage
So you actually want to make a single attack roll, say for a double turret with two beam lasers ? And you want to use a single damage roll (ie. 4d6 rather than two times 2d6) ?
Page 150 states "the effects of the damage are determined by subtracting the ships's armour from the damage rolled by the weapon"
I'd say this clearly states that you do not add up the damage dice from multiple weapons.
Despite that, I personally feel this will massively influence combat. Consider a "mere" tripple turret of beam lasers (which is rather easily affordable by a group of adventurers owning a free trader). You pack up your to hit bonus with FireControl which will be higher than any attempts at dodging. So you hit and do 6d6 damage with armour being only subtracted once (which is in itself a mistake, as there are actually three beams hitting the enemy, and all beams have to penetrate armour). So, let's assume Armour 4, that's potentially 32 points of damage... that's a tripple hit ! Tripple hit equals to system destroyed. Thus with your ruling a single hit from the above mentioned turret can totally incapacitate an enemy vessel ! IMHO, that's too drastic. If you apply the armour value three times, that'll be 24 damage, that's still two double hits... again: with a single shot ? Also, how about sand ? Do you still apply it to each beam or to the combined attack ?
And how far do you want to take this ? Fire-linking several bay weapons ? IMHO that option wopuld be far preferable to fireing a single spinal mount weapon... but then again I haven't seen HIGH GUARD yet (also not older version of it), so porbably that is not true at all
I'd vote: no fire-linking possible

Targetting
Well, yes, but your computer game is not a six minute round, right ? We are not talking about a small fighter craft weaving and dodging and firing away whenever something appears in its HUD, we are talking about real slow calculated space combat with careful consideration of when to hit that fire button, 6 min, remember ?
Point Defence is different, that's the hectic firing away at any target (missile in that case), just like in that video game.
I maybe could live with the "multiple action" thing, but I personally don't believe anyone would spread his fire in hope of a lucky shot... (and all damage is only rolled when all attacks have been made) I would concentrate all my weapons on a single target and blast that one to hell :D

Dodge/Evade
As mentioned before, page 113 clearly states that Evade software allows "a number of dodges". Thus it definitely implies that multiple dodges are required. The same is true with Dodge. You have to apply a point of thrust to be able to do that. I do not think it's good to make that a single dodge which applies to ALL incoming fire... a single pilot roll and a single thrust point to apply DM-2 to all hits ? Yes, that's Han Solo in his Falcon in the movie, but I still think, Han's actually doing many, many dodges there ! I don't think that's the idea behind MGT spacecombat.

My 50 pence
 
Denalor said:
I'd say this clearly states that you do not add up the damage dice from multiple weapons.
Despite that, I personally feel this will massively influence combat.
It seriously weakens bay weapons as well.

Look at pages 111-112 and note that bay weapons do somewhere between 5d6 and 6d6 of damage. Why bother when I can produce 6d6 to 9d6 of damage from a triple turret for approximately half the cost and a fraction of the tonnage?
 
Denalor said:
Fire-Link
I’d prefer to see an alternate rule allowing for fire linking similar weapons in a single turret to allow a single shot for more damage
So you actually want to make a single attack roll, say for a double turret with two beam lasers ? And you want to use a single damage roll (ie. 4d6 rather than two times 2d6) ?
Page 150 states "the effects of the damage are determined by subtracting the ships's armour from the damage rolled by the weapon"
I'd say this clearly states that you do not add up the damage dice from multiple weapons.
Despite that, I personally feel this will massively influence combat. Consider a "mere" tripple turret of beam lasers (which is rather easily affordable by a group of adventurers owning a free trader). You pack up your to hit bonus with FireControl which will be higher than any attempts at dodging. So you hit and do 6d6 damage with armour being only subtracted once (which is in itself a mistake, as there are actually three beams hitting the enemy, and all beams have to penetrate armour). So, let's assume Armour 4, that's potentially 32 points of damage... that's a tripple hit ! Tripple hit equals to system destroyed. Thus with your ruling a single hit from the above mentioned turret can totally incapacitate an enemy vessel ! IMHO, that's too drastic. If you apply the armour value three times, that'll be 24 damage, that's still two double hits... again: with a single shot ? Also, how about sand ? Do you still apply it to each beam or to the combined attack ?
And how far do you want to take this ? Fire-linking several bay weapons ? IMHO that option wopuld be far preferable to fireing a single spinal mount weapon... but then again I haven't seen HIGH GUARD yet (also not older version of it), so porbably that is not true at all
I'd vote: no fire-linking possible
When I say they'd fire-link, I didn't mean the damage would purely stack dice. 6D6 would be silly. But something that would incrementally improve damage would make it beneficial, such as:
1 pulse laser = D6
2 linked pulse lasers = D6+2
3 linked pulse lasers = D6+4 or 2D6

Denalor said:
Targetting
Well, yes, but your computer game is not a six minute round, right ? We are not talking about a small fighter craft weaving and dodging and firing away whenever something appears in its HUD, we are talking about real slow calculated space combat with careful consideration of when to hit that fire button, 6 min, remember ?
Point Defence is different, that's the hectic firing away at any target (missile in that case), just like in that video game.
I maybe could live with the "multiple action" thing, but I personally don't believe anyone would spread his fire in hope of a lucky shot... (and all damage is only rolled when all attacks have been made) I would concentrate all my weapons on a single target and blast that one to hell :D
You're actually making my point for me. If you have a game that only allows one attack every 6 minutes it sucks. severely.
If you want to win the argument go the other way. An attack in this game isn't a single pull of the trigger (which is the implication), it's tracking a target and firing multiple time with the net result of damage/result being the one "hit".
What happens if you are firing at two immobile targets like space junk or jettisoned cargo? Are you incapable of splitting your fire?



Denalor said:
Dodge/Evade
As mentioned before, page 113 clearly states that Evade software allows "a number of dodges". Thus it definitely implies that multiple dodges are required.
unless "a number of dodges" refers to the complexity of the software's piloting skill rather than the number of dodge rolls. e.g. Simple software can do a number of basic manuevers to avoid fire. Complex software can recreate a number of dodges akin to the evasive skills of ace pilots.

Denalor said:
The same is true with Dodge. You have to apply a point of thrust to be able to do that. I do not think it's good to make that a single dodge which applies to ALL incoming fire... a single pilot roll and a single thrust point to apply DM-2 to all hits ? Yes, that's Han Solo in his Falcon in the movie, but I still think, Han's actually doing many, many dodges there ! I don't think that's the idea behind MGT spacecombat.
Again we're talking a round of activity. It's not a literal single juke action, it's an attempt to weave and bob and avoid incoming fire for the full 6 minutes as above.
If the Dodge applies to only 1 incoming attack small ships are automatically going to be TOAST when attacked by moderately larger vessels simply because of the number of weapons. A ship with 2 turrets is almost gauranteed at least 1 Hit against a ship with 1 Dodge. A ship with 12 turrets is going to absolutely obliterate it.

If you have 3 missiles fired at the same time chasing your ship do you only get to Dodge 1 missile and diplomatically tell the other 2 missiles they have to wait in line until you finish dodging the first missile and are out of Maneuverability before they can impact on your Hull?

What about an interpretation of things as "mini-rounds" or subsections of the round?
All gunners fire salvo one. Pilots may dodge and apply the -2 to said salvo.
All gunners wishing to do Multiple Actions and fire a second salvo may do so. The Pilot must use a second Dodge of his ship if it's available to dodge the second salvo. If not then it is resolved as is.
 
Back
Top