Space Stations V1.2

[Triggy]

The Launch Bay Modules are not meant to be good value, they are there simply to allow any option at all on the smaller stations. Two Vorlon Fighter flights would make them a little better than the normal Hangar Module for Vorlons.

i would have to disagree that the vorolon launch bay as stands is better value!

Here is compareing the 2 side by side:

Hangar Module 7 Hardpoints
Each Hangar Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +5/+2/+0. It will also add the Carrier 6 trait, and six flights of Vorlon fighters.

Launch Bay Module 2 Hardpoints
Each Hangar Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +5/+2/+0. It will add one flight of Vorlon fighters.

LBM gives you better damage increase in the longrun, but i was talking fighter flights, you loose carrier trait ok fair enough, but if you divide the HM by 3 you would get 2.33 HP for 2 flights of fighters plus damage and carrier trait!

LBM gives you damage and 1 flight of fighters!!!!

The sums just do not add up with the fighters that is all i was pointing out and still think is wrong when compared to every other race's launch bay vs hanger!

I know the Launch Bay is worse value - that's what I was saying! The whole point of these costing 2HP is that they have to fit on a Patrol PL station and allow it a small gun (or other minor modification). For them to cost 2HP, they have to be worse (or at most equal) value to the 4HP or 7HP Hangars. In most cases the loss in effectiveness but in one or two cases (e.g. the Vorlons) they get pretty crappy Launch Bays. I can't really see a better way to balance them using the current space station rules.

To be honest I'd rather remove all of the Launch Bays in the first place and only see fighter wings on Skirmish PL stations or higher.

 

[Grunvald]

I kind of figured that might have been the point for the 2hp mod.

Personnellay i'd do what you want not allow fighters on small patrol level stations but keep the smaller launch bay as an option for that small couple of HP's that you will no dont have and cant figure out what to spend on instead of something usuless in a one off game!

(i'd just balance them off a little bit as surgested)

Trying to bost something that small into a ship style weapon i can not see working, would rather put a gun on it and maybe something else like a scout trait than jam fighters into it.

That are what your ships are for after all.

A small outpost may have a shuttle or two but the likely hood of haveing a full wing of fighters is so remote that i would not bother with it!

 

[Silvereye]

Nice work with the launch bays, seems to hit the right balance with Hangers being better value if you can afford them. Perhaps increase the Narn bays to 3 craft.

A small outpost may have a shuttle or two but the likely hood of haveing a full wing of fighters is so remote that i would not bother with it!

But with full cost hangers while you can generally stick fighters on any station above Colony, they do pretty much fill up the colony station. The launch bays do mean you can build a colony station that can have some fighters, a weapon battery or two and something else.

Why not just make the hangar a generic mod that adds one wing of any of that race's fighters? All cost 1 patrol point, so it should be equally balanced...

But we were trying to stop the buy wing of fighters, get a space station free. Hence the increasing of hanger costs and the suggestion of launch bays to make the smallest stations seem feasible to build and potentially stick somewhere.

Minbari Stealth Module text mentions stacking Armour Modules

I'm not sure the generic limit:2 is the best way to go. Certainly it is the easiest, but you are tarring all the modules with the same brush. Something like the Traffic Protection or Armour modules text might be worth doing or just Module Name (limit x)

Has anyone else noticed a problem with the MedBay and Spacedock modules?

Yeah, I stumbled across this one (admittedly with the bigger version of the MedBay): A Gaim Battle station with 4 Spacedocks and 3 Breeding Chambers.

Gaim Breeding Module :1HP
The campaign rules for replacing all crew of 1 ship, needs to be limited or an entire fleet could have their crew replaced for nothing. (admitidly it would be a fairly small fleet but you get the idea!)

Gaim Drone Mod: When caompared to the security module is more than double what you get, would recomend just reducing the station damage to 5/2/0 per module, arnt they surpossed to be crammed in to their ships like sardines in a can, so why the extra space!

I'd be in favour of reducing the All Crew to a large chunk of crew with the Breeding Module. Or making a 2 HP 15/5/0 module (cross between a Habitation module and the current Breeding Module).

The Drone Module is exactly the same as Drazi and Narn Barracks. I'm quite happy with these as they are, especially as there is a small benefit to buying one over two security stations.

 

[katadder]

Why not just make the hangar a generic mod that adds one wing of any of that race's fighters? All cost 1 patrol point, so it should be equally balanced...

But we were trying to stop the buy wing of fighters, get a space station free. Hence the increasing of hanger costs and the suggestion of launch bays to make the smallest stations seem feasible to build and potentially stick somewhere.

so why not make it half a wing rounding down then for every single module. that way its still fairly balanced as theres not a huge amount of odd numbered wings and everyone gets about equal fighters.

 

[Triggy]

Why not just make the hangar a generic mod that adds one wing of any of that race's fighters? All cost 1 patrol point, so it should be equally balanced...

But we were trying to stop the buy wing of fighters, get a space station free. Hence the increasing of hanger costs and the suggestion of launch bays to make the smallest stations seem feasible to build and potentially stick somewhere.

so why not make it half a wing rounding down then for every single module. that way its still fairly balanced as theres not a huge amount of odd numbered wings and everyone gets about equal fighters.

That's what the latest version I put out is

 

[Grunvald]

OK so the launch Bay is 1patrol rounded down

What the hanger then??

ABBAI
Hangar Module 4 Hardpoints
ten flights of Kothas.

That is one and a quarter patrol pts

Launch Bay Module 2 Hardpoints
four flights of Kothas.

That is Half a patrol pt.

Drazi have gone from 6 to 2. This could be ok depending on which wing of fighters u taking it from. Pikatos is 5 while Falkosi is 6. Heavy hanger 7hp has 6 Riva which is 2patrol.

I wont carry on listing them but there are to many inconsistancies within the basic calculations!

Think we need a base line of how many fighters in a basic hanger (1 or 2 patrol points), In a Launch Bay (half a patrol round down or up?) and for the odd one or two the Heavy hanger (probabley 1patrol point).

At the moment they all over the place!
Some 2pts, some 1 and a bit, some one and a half!

Being as the Launch Bay is smaller than the Hanger make hanger damage 10/5/0 not same as Launch bay, and being as Hanger costs more.

 

[Triggy]

The flexibility to take fewer fighters in a single module is why the Launch Bays cost more. Making them better (e.g. giving more damage) would nullify some of this deliberate approach.

The one or two examples where the Hangar gives 1.25 wings of fighters (Raiders and Abbai) is because giving them Carrier 8 and one wing of fighters was just silly. Instead they have Carrier 5 and a couple of extra fighters.

Brakiri Launch Bay - this has to be 2 fighters as it has to be based off of the better fighter (the Pikatos). We could of course call it 3 fighters and only allow Falkiosi flights.

pak'ma'ra, Vree, Vorlons and Shadows all only have heavy or advanced fighters but get the same calculation done - half a Patrol PL wing of fighters, rounding down.

You say you won't carry on listing them but I actually can't see any inconsistencies other than the Abbai and Raiders. The other examples you site aren't inconsistencies. I've checked through the entire list twice now so unless I'm missing something I think it's right if Launch Bays are going to be included at all.

 

[Grunvald]

Vorlon hanger is 6 flights = 2 patrol = 7hp
shadow 4 flights = 2 patrol = 7hp
Raiders 10 flights = 2 patrol = 4hp
Vree 3 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
Pak 6 flights = 2 patrol = 7hp. Heavy hanger
Narn 5 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
Minbari 4 flights = 2 patrol = 7hp
ISA 4 flights = 2patrol = 7hp, advanced (PLS NOTE isa can not have Firebolts!)
ISA 4 flights = 1patrol = 4hp
Gain 6 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
EA early 5 flight = 1 patrol = 4hp
EA 3rd + Cru 4 flight = 1 patrol = 4hp
Drazi 6 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
Drazi 6 flights = 1 patrol = 7hp, heavy
Drakh odd one out getting huge hangers, under own fluff why not raiders??
Dilgar 4 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
centauri 4 flights = 2 patrol = 7hp, advanced
centauri 4 flights = 1 patrol = 4hp
Brakiri 5 flights = 1patrol = 4hp
Brakiri 6 flights = 2patrol = 7hp heavy
Abbai 10 flights = 1and quarter patrol = 4hp


You get more in some races hangers and less in others 7 hp does not always equal 2 patrol although for the most part it does.

And same goes for a 4hp does not always equal 1 patrol!

What i was surgesting and maybe i didnt put it other corectly, was why not a set fighure (hp) for hangers and a set prioity lvl for the number of fighters. The carrier trait instead of being high can and has been cut in half in the odd one (or at least reduced)

Then if required bring in the launch bays with the missing fighters (eg flyers) or as an alternate?

Possibly make the launch bay 1 patrol pt, hanger maybe 2.

And after peoples surgestions of making them pay for the fighters from the start, think it is the easiest way forward to stop a fighter heavy station suddenly appearing!

 

[Triggy]

I see your point although just to be clear for the Raiders - it's ten flights of Delta-V for the Hangar (1.25 Patrol FAPs but only Carrier 5, same as Abbai) and ten flights of Delta-V2/Double-V for Advanced Hangar (2 Patrol FAPs).

I've removed Firebolts as an ISA Advanced Hangar option and added Flyers as an ISA Launch Bay option.

I've also changed the Brakiri Launch bay to three flights of Falkiosi only.

I'm not a fan of having modules that you then have to spend extra on to fill them with fighters. Particularly - see what happens if you fight a 4 Raid FAP game with a War PL space station - you wouldn't be able to take any fighters. Having a full list keeps things simple and on top of that, if people were paying separately for fighters, why would they ever load them on space stations when they can just start them on the table?

Having a list of the options is actually pretty simple and aside from one or two cases where the Launch Bays are poorer value then they are all pretty balanced.

 

[Grunvald]

Missed the advanced hanger on raiders (head still a bit stuffed with this DAM cold, and i got HGV training startin tomorrow!!!).

Balance is one thing but then we get over powering stations which is what no one wants.

Wasnt a fan myself for having to pay extra for things when they are surposed to be in the initial pricing of what ever you are buying in the first place!

How about x number of hanger launch bays etc at hp costings and any additional ones costing FAP? best of both worlds!

 

[Da Boss]

Triggy - have you heard / are able to say if your amendments / collation has been accepted as official at all? :?:

thanks

 

[Da Boss]

few other questions I thought of

Do stations counts as Ships with regard to rules like Pentacons ? Hunting Packs / Web of Death / Critical systems defense?

Do pak space stations get the special save ?

Can Shadow Stations use their beams in a AF mode?

 

[Tolwyn]

Is there a way to submit new station module ideas?

 

[Da Boss]

stick them on here - Triggy usually reads and he seems to be collating his and others ideas and amendments for either P+P 8)

or his own post P+P publication :wink:

 

[KennyBoy]

Hi Trig

Quick question - would you say that multiple Command modules would allow for multiple Scout rolls?

 

[Triggy]

Da Boss is right, post something here and I'll read it.

Hi Trig

Quick question - would you say that multiple Command modules would allow for multiple Scout rolls?

No, Scout X doesn't exist as a trait therefore the most you can ever get is one scout roll per turn.

Also, a couple of very minor tweaks but I haven't uploaded them yet as they're so small (e.g. Medbays only giving back 5 crew per campaign turn and Spacedocks only giving 1d6 RRs if you build at least two of them (and at no point do you get multiple d6 RRs for multiple modules).

 

[Greg Smith]

I can see the way the command module is worded that you don't get a second scout trait, however it does make a second command module prohibitively expensive, particularly when other modules give you better returns for multiple modules : your version of bio-tech and your planned change to the spacedock.

 

[Da Boss]

Be handy if the second command module gave you redundancy on the traits (we played this tonight)

EG one fleet carrier trait is gone but the other remains
("hanger one is out - redirect to Hanger two")

Having two Scout modules on a station does not seem unbalanced as you are paying handsomely for it?

 

[KennyBoy]

Just to add similar sentiments as Da Boss and Greg, the large damage threshold and long range guns on the station didn't really make up for the use of a full War point... obviously, if abused, the station could have been a floating gun battery, but I wanted to build a more balanced one (very unlike me :wink: )
Again, at 4 Hard points, a Command module is a good buy for all the traits that it bestows. However, if additional Command modules only grant a further +1 to Command Trait and nothing more - additional Scout ability, redundancy to other Traits etc... - then I feel the cost outweighs the benefits of purchasing additional modules.

 

[Tolwyn]

Here are my ideas:

Earth Alliance Station Weapon Modules

Early Era Weapons Modules

Railgun Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Railguns 16 4 AP DD
Damage +10/+5/+0

Plasma Cannon Module HP 1
Weapon Range AD Special
Medium Plasma Cannons 12 6 AP
Damage +10/+5/+0

Missile Module HP 3
Weapon Range AD Special
Missile Racks 45 3 Precise Slow Loading SAP
Damage +10/+5/+0


3rd Age Weapons Modules

Pulse Cannons Module HP 1
Medium Pulse Cannon 15 6 Twin-Linked
Damage +10/+5/+0


Heavy Laser Module HP 6
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Laser Cannon 45 4 Beam, Double Damage
Damage +10/+5/+0

Heavy Pulse Cannon Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Pulse Cannon 18 9 Twin-Linked
Damage +10/+5/+0

Laser Module HP 3
Weapon Range AD Special
Laser Cannon 45 4 Double Damage
Damage +10/+5/+0


Crusade Era Weapons Modules


Advanced Missile Racks Module HP 4
Weapon Range AD Special
Advanced Missile Racks 45 3 Precise Slow Loading* SAP
Damage +10/+5/+0
* Ignores Slow Loading as long as the station is not crippeled


Heavy Pulse Cannon Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Pulse Cannon 18 9 Twin-Linked
Damage +10/+5/+0


Heavy Particle Cannon Module HP 6
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Particle Cannon 45 2 Beam, Triple Damage
Damage +10/+5/+0

Neutron Cannon Module HP 7
Weapon Range AD Special
Medium Neutron Cannon 45 2 Beam, TD, Precise


Drazi Modules

Repeater Module HP 1
Weapon Range AD Special
Particle Repeater 15 6 Twin-Linked


Solar Module HP 6
Weapon Range AD Special
Solar Cannon 27 4 Beam, Slow-Loading, Triple Damage


Particle Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Particle Cannon 28 4 Beam


Heavy Particle Module HP 4
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Particle Cannon 45 4 Beam DD


Particle Blaster Module HP 1
Weapon Range AD Special
Particle Blaster 12 6 T-L


Heavy Particle Blaster Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Heavy Particle Blaster 12 6 TL DD



Minbari Module

Disruptor Module HP 2
Weapon Range AD Special
Molecular Disruptor 15 6 AP DD Precise


General Modules

Repair Yard Module HP 3
This module generates 1D6 RR points per turn which must be used for repairs of damaged ships.
Damage +10/+5/+0


Long Range Sensor Systems
A tachyon based sensor system grants the owning player a +1 bonus to initiative
during campaign turns, NOT during combat!