Space Combat - Did I miss something?
- Thread starter Galen
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Dogfight time.
Thanks! I was a little rusty on the rule.
So, by that definition of the rule, you are getting a bonus from multiple sand casters, even when they are not actually dispersing any sand.
YTU is YTU, but doesn't make any sense to me.
IMO on page 171 about the one can of sand is an editing error and is a gray area of which mongoose has a bunch. Anyone that says "But the rule says this" is going to have issues when a player brings up two or more different versions of the same rule from different books. It is not a game for Rules Lawyers.
Your table your rules though.
It probably won't make a difference to the story, so knock yourself out.
Your table your rules though.
It probably won't make a difference to the story, so knock yourself out.
Imagine the elder days when you had to shoot the can like a missile first and have the sand cloud floating in space between you and your enemy when they fired at you. 
Fortunately, they upgraded to precognitive launchers with time travelling principles, so you can spray them into position in the time it takes a laser to travel from the enemy ship to your hull.
Fortunately, they upgraded to precognitive launchers with time travelling principles, so you can spray them into position in the time it takes a laser to travel from the enemy ship to your hull.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Schrodinger's catapult.
At some point (TNE?) it morphed to the sand cloud being set up shortly before the shooting started and was good for the round before it dispersed, and held in place by a magnetic or grav field. The gunner's job being to reposition the cloud to where it was expected to do the most good, based on where the hostiles were positioned.
Essentially, when Star Trek raises shields or Star Wars angles deflectors, Traveller launches sand. It's not directly reacting to the laser.
Essentially, when Star Trek raises shields or Star Wars angles deflectors, Traveller launches sand. It's not directly reacting to the laser.
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
I don't remember the edition; but at one point sand was terrain. It moved with the same initial vector as the launching ship. and that ship could move away from (and perhaps return to) the cloud of sand until it was burnt through.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
I think we have to assume that beam attacks consist not of a single shot but rather a series of shots. We know that ships weapons can shoot much faster than once every 6 minutes, because in the dogfight rules the weapons are capable of actually firing at least once every six seconds. This being the case, the sandcaster reaction occurs when the gunner notices the laser attack beginning.
I would imagine the laser gunner tracks where his shots are going relative to the target and shifts his aim to narrow in on the target ship, so an attack will likely consist of some less accurate shots, followed by corrections and if successful, steadily increasing accuracy.
Obviously, a sandcaster gunner reacting to a light speed attack before it starts is impossible because it comes at the speed of light. But you can see where the shots are coming from and estimate there will be more of the same.
A sandcaster turret therefore probably has fire control optimized for detecting and analyzing the characteristics of laser flashes. (There are some alternative canister types - which probably require different fire control, maybe the gunner is able to switch between then?)
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
I remember this from LBB Traveller, I think, or maybe it was Mayday? Probably both. I like it because it gets very tactical and resembles use of smoke , but the way some Mongoose ships are designed, the sandcasters make no sense under these assumptions. If you have a few sandcasters and a big powerful ship, you're not going to ever have a use for sand - it is tactically constraining and the defensive benefit too small. So those ships would not mount sandcasters and they would only be on little ships that are in real danger from lasers and don't have better defensive alternatives, and small M drives that don't have that much to loose from not accelerating in combat because they can't accelerate much anyways.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed, reacting to light-speed attacks makes no sense, whether for people or ships, but I guess it's cinematic.
Sure, reacting to light-speed attacks is perfectly sensible.
Sure, the first sandcaster increases armour by 6 or so, and the second sandcaster increases armour by 1.
The rule is just a cinematic bodge, to make sand gunners have something to do.
Requiring several canisters for each reaction will just force the defender to use just one sandcaster, to get more reactions, preventing a lot more damage per re-load.
But, agreed, your game, your house-rules.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Quite, but targeting a specific laser turret on the enemy ship, but not the others? Still makes no physical sense.
The LBB2/Mayday system made sense, blocking all attacks through an area.
The TNE system made some kind of sense, with "sand" in a cloud around a ship.
The MgT2 system is perfectly usable, but don't look too closely at the details...
Let's not make the perfect be the enemy of good enough.
"Were it not sinful then, striving to mend,
To mar the subject that before was well?"
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
1. Inertially compensated sand.
2. Sand blaster.
3. Ablative sand coating.
2. Sand blaster.
3. Ablative sand coating.
NOLATrav
Emperor Mongoose
It had to have been early-mid Classic Traveller. I remember reading somewhere that a stretched out cotton ball could be used on the table to represent the sand and yeah, same initial vector as the launching ship. IIRC, same time period that pieces of string were suggested as an aid to vector movement.
So quaint and war-gamey lol. I’ll always love the effort that was put into those rules, trying to make those combats feel real. But man it was super-noodly and took FOREVER.
Standing by for @Sigtrygg to chime in with the reference …
Yes, I agree it is a Cinematic Bodge as you put it. I figure the sand is being dispersed the entire round you decide to use it, so you are not necessarily reacting to the actual shot being fired. It's also a way to decide when you run out of sand.
I don't quite follow the second part of your post. IMO, If you have a double turret with two Sandcasters they fire as a unit. You can't fire one and then the other on the same attack. You would get one reaction for each turret or fixed emplacement per attack at most.
IMO In regard to the number of sand cans. Each weapon in a Double or triple turret use power to fire, which is their ammo. I just don't see the argument for sand being an exception and using one can of ammo per two or more casters in a single turret.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Muzzle velocity would be a factor.
The spacecraft might outrun the sand.
The spacecraft might outrun the sand.
Despite some of my posts, I try not to overthink it too much.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I'm told that overthinking, might negate that minus one intelligence loss, every Olympian term.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
Definitely would with any thrusting, but unless you want to move clouds of sand around with a piece of string, just assume this possibility all gets abstracted into the totality of the plus and minus involved in the attack.
