Some of the new ships/fleets

[SylvrDragon]

Better than average:

White Star I/II - Got a firepower upgrade but no compensation in reduction (e.g. boresight).

Actually I think the WS worked out more or less even compared to previous edition. It got an extra AD of neutron laser but it lost an AD of pulsars. It also got its dodge reduced from 3+ to 4+. Overall I think it is probably about right.

Its pulsars also lost precise. The White Star I also lost a flight of fighters in return for the Scout rule which, in my opinion, is a more than fair trade; with the new AF rules you really do need fighters in mass for them to be useful. Though I can't honestly say if these changes balanced it or not. The White Stars were fairly broken in the last edition, so it would take some weakening to compensate, but then I haven't actually fought any in this edition so I can't really say.

 

[Ripple]

Look again at the Arm whitestar and the tourney list whitestar from the previous edition, it had already gotten the lost ad and the lost precise as well as the dodge factor then as balancing factors. The whitestar was always tricky to get the best out of but it was still one of the most winning fleets in the game.

Ripple

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I've got no complaints about the Vorchan. The Demos should lose 2AD from its ion cannon to match the Vorchan, then it's a trade between the two primary weapons.

To be really honest, and probably crazy, I wouldn't have minded seeing the Vorchan go to raid level and get the torps added on top of the ion cannon and plasma accelerator, since I know of no evidence that the ship in season 5 is different to the ship in season 2. We only have AoG's word for it as far as I know.

 

[Triggy]

Better than average:

White Star I/II - Got a firepower upgrade but no compensation in reduction (e.g. boresight).

Actually I think the WS worked out more or less even compared to previous edition. It got an extra AD of neutron laser but it lost an AD of pulsars. It also got its dodge reduced from 3+ to 4+. Overall I think it is probably about right.

Its pulsars also lost precise. The White Star I also lost a flight of fighters in return for the Scout rule which, in my opinion, is a more than fair trade; with the new AF rules you really do need fighters in mass for them to be useful. Though I can't honestly say if these changes balanced it or not. The White Stars were fairly broken in the last edition, so it would take some weakening to compensate, but then I haven't actually fought any in this edition so I can't really say.

As has been stated, White Stars already had these reductions and if used well were about right in terms of balance.

As for the Hunters, you need to get them close to be effective and this minimises Stealth. They're good but they aren't going to win games alone if they're all you take. Hell, just check out my battle report in S&P 52 to see how they can do sometimes!!!

 

[Greg Smith]

I tended to find my hunter got killed very quickly - or it lost its weapon. Then two of them killed a Drakh war cruiser in one turn and I changed my mind. They are very dependant on beam weapon luck, and not getting hit by the wrong criticals, and not getting outflanked, but when they work, they really work.

 

[SylvrDragon]

Try staring down the barrel of 3 Hunters as a primarily short ranged fleet. As Dilgar the Hunter has proven a devastating foe. It can almost keep up with my Tikrit in the damage dealing area, plus it has hull 6, as opposed to my hull 5, and it has 3+ stealth as a nice little side bonus. This makes it a more durable vessel than my Tikrit so don't go there. I wouldn't have a problem with the Hunter if not for its precise, TD beam with 5 AD! It has the two most powerful weapon traits combined with the second best damage multiplier. A lot of people seem to overlook precise, but I know all to well that it's quite possibly the most powerful weapon trait. It boosts damage, since it eliminates bulkheads, and doubles the crit chance. If a Hunter doesn't kill a ship with its beam then it can very easily crit it out of the game for a turn or 2, if not entirely from the game; it really sucks to have weapons taken away only to get hit with an engine room vital in the same barrage.

 

[SylvrDragon]

I tended to find my hunter got killed very quickly - or it lost its weapon. Then two of them killed a Drakh war cruiser in one turn and I changed my mind. They are very dependant on beam weapon luck, and not getting hit by the wrong criticals, and not getting outflanked, but when they work, they really work.

They're a flanker. You have them hug a board edge to elimiate flanking from one angle, then cover their other side and rear with other ships and then have them turn into the enemies flank. Easy and effective.

 

[Taran]

On its own, no. The Stuteeka isn't that great.
But used to clear enemy fighters from the sky, and half the fighters as escorting interceptors for ships without any...

No, it really comes into its own as a support ship for a proper fleet...

 

[Target]

I've got no complaints about the Vorchan. The Demos should lose 2AD from its ion cannon to match the Vorchan, then it's a trade between the two primary weapons.

To be really honest, and probably crazy, I wouldn't have minded seeing the Vorchan go to raid level and get the torps added on top of the ion cannon and plasma accelerator, since I know of no evidence that the ship in season 5 is different to the ship in season 2. We only have AoG's word for it as far as I know.

I wouldn't complain either if they were a raid ship.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I've got no complaints about the Vorchan. The Demos should lose 2AD from its ion cannon to match the Vorchan, then it's a trade between the two primary weapons.

To be really honest, and probably crazy, I wouldn't have minded seeing the Vorchan go to raid level and get the torps added on top of the ion cannon and plasma accelerator, since I know of no evidence that the ship in season 5 is different to the ship in season 2. We only have AoG's word for it as far as I know.

I wouldn't complain either if they were a raid ship.

I would. You would have the same problem as 1st ed. Things nthat are more powerful but still have same damage track and same crew and defenses.

To make it raid you would have to rejig it completely. Keep it at skirmish.

 

[katadder]

we played around with a raid version of the vorchan, making its damage track about that of a hyperion and yes with ion torps on top of current weapons.

 

[Da Boss]

Try staring down the barrel of 3 Hunters as a primarily short ranged fleet. As Dilgar the Hunter has proven a devastating foe. It can almost keep up with my Tikrit in the damage dealing area, plus it has hull 6, as opposed to my hull 5, and it has 3+ stealth as a nice little side bonus. This makes it a more durable vessel than my Tikrit so don't go there. I wouldn't have a problem with the Hunter if not for its precise, TD beam with 5 AD! It has the two most powerful weapon traits combined with the second best damage multiplier. A lot of people seem to overlook precise, but I know all to well that it's quite possibly the most powerful weapon trait. It boosts damage, since it eliminates bulkheads, and doubles the crit chance. If a Hunter doesn't kill a ship with its beam then it can very easily crit it out of the game for a turn or 2, if not entirely from the game; it really sucks to have weapons taken away only to get hit with an engine room vital in the same barrage.

er short range - ALL of your weapons except the turreted light pulsars have the same or better range than the Hunters beam - 8 dice of missiles (AP, Double Damage) and 24 dice bolters (AP double damage). Yes you can be out manuervered but so can many fleets / ships.

Precise is very good - so is Masters of Destruction (esp now it works on Sahadows and Volrons as well). It has a great weapon and as its a beam sometimes it will hit stupidly big and sometimes it will barely scratch a ship.

Durablility - I think the Dilgar have a Hull 6 raid level ship with 50 damage, 56 crew..............

 

[Tolwyn]

Here are some ships I'd like to see changed:

Gaim:
They can sit on the other side of the table and shoot you to death

Demos:
It's over the top with its armament and Interceptors

Cronos:
Good hull and defences, but no serious weapons exept the turreted Railgun. I'd appreciate it if it would get some more AD on it's Pulse Cannos to make it a more ffective brawler.

Ochlavita
Same problem as Cronos, too few weapons IMO

 

[katadder]

chronos can sit on CBD though and not really worry about the minor loss in firepower.

 

[Omnipotent]

Da Boss, the Kahtrik is besides the uglies ship you can find(looks like a sled)very weak on the firepower department, a tank with no firepower doesn´t win you the game =)

 

[katadder]

got enough firepower, does as well as a t'loth which has won me games cos people cant kill it.

 

[Triggy]

I'd agree that the basic Ochlavita maybe could do with a little upwards tweak but the Chronos is actually a very decent ship, particularly against fleets weak in beam weaponry (often seen in low PL games). Its real strengths are that it doesn't have to worry about manoeuvre and it can either get in the furball or skirt the edge and constantly chip away (with Interceptors working better if you can only take a few hits per turn). A slightly tricky ship to get the most out of but generally pretty good.

Oh yeah, given that the Crusade EA fleet has a lot of high PL ships, it's a great initiative sink as it's so survivable.

 

[Everyman]

I have found that both the Psi Corps Nemesis and Shadow Omega could use some improvements as both are weak choices for their Priority Levels that only futher the desire to buy down. The Mothership tends to be rather high end in small games but gets destroyed rather quickly in big games. due to the limited numbers of them it should also be unique (or maybe they need a new trait like rare to limit them but allow you to replace them in a campaign - same goes for the explorer below)

The EA explorer ship is rather munchkin like especially in campaign play since it is not unique. Unless you remove the scout trait via crit this is a scout that is just not going to go away with 140 damage at raid level. they also gave it 6 Starfury flights to boot.

The Shadow Stalker is rather too squishy and the Shadow fighters are a complete joke. In fact the overall susceptability that a Shadow fleet has to massed fighters is rather pathetic. I must have missed that episode where Sheridan reveals his master plan to defeat them. "I know you have been planning for a thousand years but trust me forget the Whitestars, the Alliance and the nukes, everyone head to their fighters".

The G'Quan, while the signature Narn ship from the series, is unfortunately an underpowered ship that is generally not worth taking.

As stated above by others, the Demos is a little too good and the Gaim are in serious need of a retooling as a fleet.

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

*edited*

 

[Sock]

I could not agree more about the Hunter!!!!! Last night I played a 5 point war against Psi Corps, against me as Dilgar, and he had a squad of 3 of those little bastards. On turn 1 they single handedly obliterated my war level Mankhat in a single round of shooting! Sure the Mankhat is a frail war, but the fact that they hit it with a total of like 10 or more crits, combined effort of course, was enough to put any war out of commission!

As for the Mothership, well...I can't agree. It has a nasty beam, but it's extremely easy to kill. Just have a fighter shoot it after having a scout decrease stealth, then pummel it with any SP or Super AP weapon and it's toast! I played 2 games against Psi Corps last night and though the Motherships were impressive, they weren't deemed a major threat in my eyes; it's those frickin' Hunters that scare the crap out of me!

Oh stop complaining, I got SUPER lucky with the first hunter, getting like 10 hits with a 5AD beam, thats luck, okay getting like 5 crits with those hits, thats amazing luck too, i think in the long run the hunter will prove to be a little strong, but not nearly as bad as yall are saying.