Solomani Confederation (Military)
- Thread starter Condottiere
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
1. Hull 50,00 tons, Standard
2. One assumes it's a callback to post Great Patriotic War Royal Navy series of super destroyers classes, that started with the Tribals.
3. Interwar naval treaty restrictions inhibited the organic warship type size inflation, as well as limited numbers of each type, depending on how you actually interpreted, or wanted other signatories, to interpret the text.
4. The Tribals were supposed to help make up the (lack of) numbers of cruisers that you need to patrol the trade routes that connect the Empire.
5. Since current policy is to categorize intermediate/large starwarships as light cruisers if they don't have a spinal mount, you could say that the large bay becomes the equivalent of a six inch gun.
6. So the Darings could represent an attempt to have light cruiser armament, as defined by the Confederation Navy, in the smallest viable hull.
7. At the other end of the scale you have the Town (Nineteen Thirty Four) class light cruisers, weighing in at tad under twelve kilotonnes, about five times heavier than a Tribal, with four triple six inchers.
8. Admittingly, the Tribals have four twin four point seven inchers, but the point is that they could have taken down a light cruiser.
9. So the Darings would be an attempt by the Confederation Navy, to bridge destroyer and light cruiser roles.
2. One assumes it's a callback to post Great Patriotic War Royal Navy series of super destroyers classes, that started with the Tribals.
3. Interwar naval treaty restrictions inhibited the organic warship type size inflation, as well as limited numbers of each type, depending on how you actually interpreted, or wanted other signatories, to interpret the text.
4. The Tribals were supposed to help make up the (lack of) numbers of cruisers that you need to patrol the trade routes that connect the Empire.
5. Since current policy is to categorize intermediate/large starwarships as light cruisers if they don't have a spinal mount, you could say that the large bay becomes the equivalent of a six inch gun.
6. So the Darings could represent an attempt to have light cruiser armament, as defined by the Confederation Navy, in the smallest viable hull.
7. At the other end of the scale you have the Town (Nineteen Thirty Four) class light cruisers, weighing in at tad under twelve kilotonnes, about five times heavier than a Tribal, with four triple six inchers.
8. Admittingly, the Tribals have four twin four point seven inchers, but the point is that they could have taken down a light cruiser.
9. So the Darings would be an attempt by the Confederation Navy, to bridge destroyer and light cruiser roles.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Which is Classic canon, and going by the design rules, you probably aim at twenty five kilotonnes minimum.
However, Confederation Navy definition is (probably intermediate/large) starwarship without a spinal mount is a light cruiser.
In theory, you could have a hundred kilotonne hull loaded up to the gills with large bays, and it would be rated a light cruiser.
My estimate would be between eight and fifty kilotonnes - eight because of the Texas class, and fifty because that's about optimum min maxing.
However, Confederation Navy definition is (probably intermediate/large) starwarship without a spinal mount is a light cruiser.
In theory, you could have a hundred kilotonne hull loaded up to the gills with large bays, and it would be rated a light cruiser.
My estimate would be between eight and fifty kilotonnes - eight because of the Texas class, and fifty because that's about optimum min maxing.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap
A. Or, if they can scrap up about a twenty of each cruiser class, they could dump them in separate sectors, which would simplify maintenance for the Yamamotos and Minsks.
B. Aldebaran and Solomani Rim could have twenty four Normandys each, with the Beijings sitting in Strategic Reserve.
C. The Zeus class battlecruisers are probably too large to downgrade to grand cruiser, but you could deploy them to guard the trailing border in Neworld and Alpha Crucis plus Spica sectors.
D. Sort of run out of heavy cruiser classes at this point, but I'm thinking the cheap cut rate variants, though constructed at technological level fourteen.
E. In theory, should have accumulated enough Normandys to deploy twenty four each in those sectors.
F. It's more of a case of not wanting to take a chance, despite the apparent pacifistic nature of the spiders.
A. Or, if they can scrap up about a twenty of each cruiser class, they could dump them in separate sectors, which would simplify maintenance for the Yamamotos and Minsks.
B. Aldebaran and Solomani Rim could have twenty four Normandys each, with the Beijings sitting in Strategic Reserve.
C. The Zeus class battlecruisers are probably too large to downgrade to grand cruiser, but you could deploy them to guard the trailing border in Neworld and Alpha Crucis plus Spica sectors.
D. Sort of run out of heavy cruiser classes at this point, but I'm thinking the cheap cut rate variants, though constructed at technological level fourteen.
E. In theory, should have accumulated enough Normandys to deploy twenty four each in those sectors.
F. It's more of a case of not wanting to take a chance, despite the apparent pacifistic nature of the spiders.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
M-Drive Thrust 7 (very advanced, energy efficient x2) 350 875
350/0.07 = 5'000
350/0.07 = 5'000
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap
G. One of the first Light Cruisers deployed by the Confederation after its creation in 871, the venerable Texas class has been in service for over 120 years and is showing its age.
H. There are more classes, but let's make the Texas generic.
I. These eight kilotonne technological level twelve light cruisers are meant to complement the then newly deployed Victory class battlecruisers.
J. Primary armament is a particle accelerator bay and ten light fighters.
K. I'm not quite sure what's the optimum build for a light fighter, maybe they use drones?
G. One of the first Light Cruisers deployed by the Confederation after its creation in 871, the venerable Texas class has been in service for over 120 years and is showing its age.
H. There are more classes, but let's make the Texas generic.
I. These eight kilotonne technological level twelve light cruisers are meant to complement the then newly deployed Victory class battlecruisers.
J. Primary armament is a particle accelerator bay and ten light fighters.
K. I'm not quite sure what's the optimum build for a light fighter, maybe they use drones?
They should probably have a laser weapon, to avoid being easily swept by a Corvette with small missile bay, so if you want them to pack a real offensive weapon they have to be 35t min (there are good reasons for this)
Imo, small craft aren't really for fighting, at least not major military ships, they're a great way to expand sensor nets and patrol, I think of them as the infantry to the big ships' armored vehicles.
The navy I'm bulding uses drones (missile<torpedo<vehicle<5t) for this role, with 35t(thinking about bumping this to 50t, for extra utility) fighter that can fight(other fighters) for information backed by 300t corvettes. Also since they're railgun equipped they can be pushed into mine clearance and anti-satellite duties, at range in space and in atmosphere (gas giants notable)
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Thirty five tonnes would be the goto, but in this particular case, we have an eight kilotonne platform that's supposed to be a light cruiser, which by canon is overstuffed so that it can't be upgraded, and probably would be in the colonial/third class cruiser category, so basically patrol/commerce protection/pirate hunter/gunboat diplomacy.
At a minimum, a light fighter should be sixteen tonnes, assuming you want to give it some armour protection, but under that it becomes a serious compromise, which is why I wondered that they might prefer just to use drones.
At a minimum, a light fighter should be sixteen tonnes, assuming you want to give it some armour protection, but under that it becomes a serious compromise, which is why I wondered that they might prefer just to use drones.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap
L. If the point is to make it more difficult to target the light cruiser from a spinal mount, then it's capped at ten kilotonnes.
M. Which is where the technological level fourteen Madrid class comes in.
N. In theory, it would be the standard light cruiser class of the Solomani Navy, armed with meson large bays.
O. Though I suspect Naval Staff would have figured out that a super destroyer at half the size probably could probably do the same.
P. Probably could stuff them in Alpha Crucis sector, to actively patrol there.
L. If the point is to make it more difficult to target the light cruiser from a spinal mount, then it's capped at ten kilotonnes.
M. Which is where the technological level fourteen Madrid class comes in.
N. In theory, it would be the standard light cruiser class of the Solomani Navy, armed with meson large bays.
O. Though I suspect Naval Staff would have figured out that a super destroyer at half the size probably could probably do the same.
P. Probably could stuff them in Alpha Crucis sector, to actively patrol there.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
There is a reason the Madrid class has two meson bays.
It was designed for T20, and due to the T20 ship combat crit rules a meson bay could mission kill anything.
I tried to get them to change the rules but to no avail, so give it a try.
Use a large meson bay in T20 combat and watch what happens...
It was designed for T20, and due to the T20 ship combat crit rules a meson bay could mission kill anything.
I tried to get them to change the rules but to no avail, so give it a try.
Use a large meson bay in T20 combat and watch what happens...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Depends on what you're up against, and what you need to mission kill it.
I kinda suspect that the spinal mount tonnages are the same as Classic, finding space for one at this level is sorta tough for a Mongoose translation, which means large bays, which would mess up a sub fifty kilotonne starship.
What I'm looking for is a way to make up the numbers, so it makes sense to Imperium Navy Intelligence Bureau, and I think that the Confederation Navy would downsize to super destroyers, minmaxed at fifty nine hundred seventy tonnes, which would allow a command bridge, distributed array, seventy five percent staffing, and flight crew training for capital ships, in preference to eight or ten kilotonne light cruisers.
The cruiser numbers aren't due to some naval limitations agreement, but rather the minimum that looks plausible, and prevents anyone from looking under the covers, and for that we'd have to use the Imperium Navy order of battle for a guide, though they would notice the extraordinarily large numbers of fast dreadnoughts.
Since we now have to accommodate battlecruisers, those can easily take over the first class cruiser roles and missions, and the super destroyers what seems like the (really) light cruisers ones, which leaves us with everything inbetween to do the normal cruising missions, and therefore, can afford to have less of them.
I was thinking of giving the Confederation Navy through deck cruisers, which can act as a command ship, commando carrier, and so on, which allows us to get rid of light carriers.
I kinda suspect that the spinal mount tonnages are the same as Classic, finding space for one at this level is sorta tough for a Mongoose translation, which means large bays, which would mess up a sub fifty kilotonne starship.
What I'm looking for is a way to make up the numbers, so it makes sense to Imperium Navy Intelligence Bureau, and I think that the Confederation Navy would downsize to super destroyers, minmaxed at fifty nine hundred seventy tonnes, which would allow a command bridge, distributed array, seventy five percent staffing, and flight crew training for capital ships, in preference to eight or ten kilotonne light cruisers.
The cruiser numbers aren't due to some naval limitations agreement, but rather the minimum that looks plausible, and prevents anyone from looking under the covers, and for that we'd have to use the Imperium Navy order of battle for a guide, though they would notice the extraordinarily large numbers of fast dreadnoughts.
Since we now have to accommodate battlecruisers, those can easily take over the first class cruiser roles and missions, and the super destroyers what seems like the (really) light cruisers ones, which leaves us with everything inbetween to do the normal cruising missions, and therefore, can afford to have less of them.
I was thinking of giving the Confederation Navy through deck cruisers, which can act as a command ship, commando carrier, and so on, which allows us to get rid of light carriers.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I think you are missing the point.
The Madrid was specifically designed due to the nature of the T20 combat system. It can mission kill a 1,000,000 BB on a critical hit, which due to the way the combat rules in T20 work if it hits it criticals.
If I were designing it for MgT it would be very different.
It is also obvious that there is a considerable difference between MgT1e source books and 2e - different authors for one thing, and different fleet combat rules.
What is really needed is a new Solomani Fleet book...
The Madrid was specifically designed due to the nature of the T20 combat system. It can mission kill a 1,000,000 BB on a critical hit, which due to the way the combat rules in T20 work if it hits it criticals.
If I were designing it for MgT it would be very different.
It is also obvious that there is a considerable difference between MgT1e source books and 2e - different authors for one thing, and different fleet combat rules.
What is really needed is a new Solomani Fleet book...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The new Navy book states that meson technology remains highly classified, at least by the Imperium.
So that golden bibi could presumably be achieved.
The core of the Confederation Navy remains at technological level fourteen, so in theory the suite of Prometheus, Normandy, Beijing, Madrid, should be default.
The Imperium should be looking at a solid wall of Prometheii along their rimward border, with Beijings prepped to wreck havoc in their rear areas.
I'd say that six Beijings in each of the six sector fleets should be able to deal with anything that needs a rapid response, internally, while the appearance of a Fleet Division of two Prometheii should hint that resistance is futile, and the idea is that mass producing them allows a rather wide distribution, if necessary.
With super destroyers taking over most other cruiser functions, the question is why would they need the others?
So that golden bibi could presumably be achieved.
The core of the Confederation Navy remains at technological level fourteen, so in theory the suite of Prometheus, Normandy, Beijing, Madrid, should be default.
The Imperium should be looking at a solid wall of Prometheii along their rimward border, with Beijings prepped to wreck havoc in their rear areas.
I'd say that six Beijings in each of the six sector fleets should be able to deal with anything that needs a rapid response, internally, while the appearance of a Fleet Division of two Prometheii should hint that resistance is futile, and the idea is that mass producing them allows a rather wide distribution, if necessary.
With super destroyers taking over most other cruiser functions, the question is why would they need the others?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You always have to bear in mind that the Confederation Navy is the Spanish Armada, not the German Hochseeflotte.
The strategic aim of the Solomani Confederation is, at minimum, the liberation of the Occupied Territories.
Jump factor four helps achieve that aim, especially as they need to extend and secure lines of communications coreward.
The Confederation Navy doesn't plan to fall back on fortified positions in anticipation of an Imperium invasion, and even then interior lines of communication don't favour them, because they have no strategic depth, and extend as a horseshoe.
Doesn't mean that they haven't set up fortress planets, just that it's more likely done as a precaution.
The strategic aim of the Solomani Confederation is, at minimum, the liberation of the Occupied Territories.
Jump factor four helps achieve that aim, especially as they need to extend and secure lines of communications coreward.
The Confederation Navy doesn't plan to fall back on fortified positions in anticipation of an Imperium invasion, and even then interior lines of communication don't favour them, because they have no strategic depth, and extend as a horseshoe.
Doesn't mean that they haven't set up fortress planets, just that it's more likely done as a precaution.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
1. In my opinion, my assessment is correct.
2. Solomani Front did give us something innovative, naval tenders, logistic barges, and battle monitors.
3. I already conceived of barges, but as space stations with factor one manoeuvre and jump drives, but the new rules made that difficult to rationalize.
4. Naval tenders, even at jump factor three, revolutionized possible application of naval doctrine.
5. However, you still need jump factor four fleet units, in order to keep up with the Imperium Navy line of battle, otherwise, they could easily bypass you.
6. The Confederation Navy is very budget conscious, and at this stage of the game, will have optimized their starwarship designs.
7. It's not that the Confederation Navy has given up on cruiser construction, but rather that they'll keep the construction infrastructure, for the moment they have decided that war is inevitable, and surge in building new hulls, while in the meantime, slowing down the rate, in order to divert funds to the construction of infiltration cruisers and fast dreadnoughts.
2. Solomani Front did give us something innovative, naval tenders, logistic barges, and battle monitors.
3. I already conceived of barges, but as space stations with factor one manoeuvre and jump drives, but the new rules made that difficult to rationalize.
4. Naval tenders, even at jump factor three, revolutionized possible application of naval doctrine.
5. However, you still need jump factor four fleet units, in order to keep up with the Imperium Navy line of battle, otherwise, they could easily bypass you.
6. The Confederation Navy is very budget conscious, and at this stage of the game, will have optimized their starwarship designs.
7. It's not that the Confederation Navy has given up on cruiser construction, but rather that they'll keep the construction infrastructure, for the moment they have decided that war is inevitable, and surge in building new hulls, while in the meantime, slowing down the rate, in order to divert funds to the construction of infiltration cruisers and fast dreadnoughts.
