Solomani Confederation (Military)

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

L. The problem with the railgun, is if it's a worthwhile switch with a somewhat equivalent particle accelerator.

M. It's superficially cheaper, and and it's teched lower, but range is limited to medium, and calibre capped at factor six times four dice.

N. Which with a possible third damage neutralized by heavy armour, might, even if you assume it's equivalent to a twelve incher, might not be enough to take out even a second class battleship.

O. You'd have to manoeuvre to keep the range at medium, and the nose pointed in the right direction.

P. Your assumption would be, that combat would be over in thirty minutes, whether you were using a particle accelerator, a meson, or a railgun.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

Q. Post war, when the Confederation Navy starts picking up the pieces, they must have realized that for a heavyish cruiser, you either have a fifty or hundred kilotonne primary hull, to take advantage of combat advantages, hull size, or crew adjustments.

R. If they decided to continue with a battlecruiser building programme, they won't need new first class cruisers.

S. So, no new heavyish cruisers.

T. That leaves us with figuring out second class cruisers, at least how the Confederation Navy would define that, and if they needed them, post war.

U. And bringing up the rear, third class and scout cruisers.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

V. Exactly fifty kilotonnes being the sweetspot.

W. If I had to speculate, this tonnage would be extremely popular with member navies for their cruisers.

X. Second class cruisers would also be legacies, not so much as to their stated performance on paper, but more that they are old, possibly dating back to the War of Imperium Aggression.

Y. I think the Normandys, probably being easier (and cheaper) to construct then than new Prometheus fast dreadnoughts and previous generation Zeus battlecruisers, ... bearing the brunt of fighting ... probably have at least a dozen examples still commissioned.

Z. Looks like I was wrong, they're seventy kilotonnes.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

1. If we start with a thirty one hundred and a half tonne jump drive module, that would produce one hundred twenty five and four fifths parsec tonnes default at technological level thirteen.

2. Technological level fourteen upgrade ten percent size reduction, modifies that to 3'145.5 tonnes jump core/capacitors, producing 139'800 parsec tonnes.

3. Divided by four, 34'950.

4. Seven modules for the Prometheus class would be 244'650 tonnes, performance jump factor four.

5. Eight modules for the Prometheus class would be 279'600 tonnes, performance jump factor four.

6. Two modules would be 69'900 tonnes, performance jump factor four.

7. I tend to think the Confederation Navy just tries to mass produce this model, and has it's major combatants with jump factor four built around that.

8. At that point, that would be only the Prometheus and Normandy classes.

9. The Beijings would need a default technological level fourteen jump factor five model, while at ten kilotonnes, the module would be massively over performing for the Madrid light cruiser class.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

A. The technological level thirteen prototype has energy inefficiency as it's disadvantage.

B. Of the two technological level fourteen production models, the budget variant keeps the energy inefficiency, while the ones allocated to the Normandy and Prometheus classes are size reduced.

C. Two budget/energy inefficiency modules would have a total of 50'320 parsec tonnes.

D. That pushes the Beijings to fifty kilotonnes retconically, the aforementioned sweetspot.

E. A deep strike light cruiser would then be 25'160 tonnes.

F. A deep fleet intruder would have three modules, at 75'480 tonnes, if the Confederation Navy thought this was a worthwhile investment.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

G. The postwar quarter megatonne Carnot class naval tender a performance of jump factor three.

H. This would require seven and a half hundred thousand parsec tonnes.

I. A newly designed twenty percent size reduction module would produce 157'300 parsec tonnes.

J. Five modules would total 786'500 parsec tonnes, or 262'166.6666666667 tonnes at jump factor three.

K. Though my preference would be for nine modules at ten percent size reduction, and jump factor four.

 

[ColinD]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

V. Exactly fifty kilotonnes being the sweetspot.

W. If I had to speculate, this tonnage would be extremely popular with member navies for their cruisers.

X. Second class cruisers would also be legacies, not so much as to their stated performance on paper, but more that they are old, possibly dating back to the War of Imperium Aggression.

Y. I think the Normandys, probably being easier (and cheaper) to construct then than new Prometheus fast dreadnoughts and previous generation Zeus battlecruisers, ... bearing the brunt of fighting ... probably have at least a dozen examples still commissioned.

Z. Looks like I was wrong, they're seventy kilotonnes.

This is off topic, but I'm reading a book called The Condotterieri by Geoffrey Trease. It is so good. Have you read it? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/853581.The_Condottieri

 

[Condottiere]

1. No.

2. Choice of moniker was not by accident; also, I like getting paid.

3. In Solomani Confederation terms, you're likely to have mercenaries hired by member governments, despite the fact that they have their own navy and ground forces.

4. The Home Guard are usually partially subsidized by the Confederation, and they would take a dim view of a planetary government employing them against another member government.

5. The mercenaries aren't there for plausible deniability, but utilized as expeditionary forces.

6. This is tolerated, as likely the status quo isn't going to be altered, much.

7. Which is about what most of the players in the Italian peninsula wanted, at that time.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

L. Antebellum, the majority of jump drives would be technological levels twelve and thirteen.

M. It would appear, at least for major combatants, the Confederation Navy kept performance at jump factor three.

N. Technological level thirteen ten percent reduced size gives you 46'600 tonnes at jump factor three.

O. That would retcon the Yamamoto class strike cruiser at forty six and three fifths kilotonnes.

P. And then you have the sixty kilotonne Minsk class heavy cruiser.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

Q. But, if all major combatants are limited to three parsec range, unless you want to leverage advanced technological features at the next technological level, you could keep your production lines at technological level twelve.

R. That would be 41'933.33333333333 tonnes at jump factor three, per thirty one and a half hundred tonne module.

S. The Yamamoto class moves closer to it's original tonnage.

T. Five modules for the Midway class fighter carrier would be 209'666.6666666667 tonnes.

U. Four modules for the Zeus class battlecruiser would be 167'733.3333333333 tonnes.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

V. Three modules for the Victory class battlecruiser would be 125'800 tonnes

W. Not much point going below a hundred kilotonnes, and more troops is better, so we'll give the Zhukov class troop carrier also three modules.

X. Two modules would be 83'866.66666666667 tonnes, which might work for a primary hull of fifty kilotonnes, the difference being subsidiary hulls or external cargo.

Y. Certainly too much for the Minsk class heavy cruiser.

Z. Or probably any other variant, since so many add ons are just likely to over complicate mission planning; and logistics.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

1. Trying to fit the sixty kilotonne Minsk class heavy cruiser, neatly, in the thirty one and a half hundred tonne modular engines is a tad awkward.

2. Despite stating that once you have battlecruisers, you don't need first class cruisers, the Confederation Navy did so.

3. It's also one of the few starwarships where somewhat concrete numbers are mentioned of how many were constructed.

4. Over 100 have been built and many have been engaged in battle against the Imperial Navy since 990.

5. The misconception would be to view the Zeus class solely as battlecruisers.

6. The Confederation Navy utilized them as their primary line of battle starwarship, until superceded by the technological level fourteen Prometheus class of fast dreadnoughts.

7. Thus, you still needed a first class cruiser.

8. Alternatively, you have a primary jump drive module, plus four technological level twelve budget energy inefficiency three hundred fifteen tonne modules, jump factor three.

9. 41'933.33333333333 plus four times 4'133.333333333333, total 58'466.66666666666.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

A. When the Confederation Navy designed the Victory class battlecruiser, it really was meant to replace first class cruisers, which is probably why you don't see any mediumish and heavyish cruisers at that technological level twelve, since the primary need was to consolidate their territory, and one assumes, deter Aslan Völkerwanderung, a Victory class being larger enough to be daunting, but not something you'd place in the line of battle.

B. Probably, the most significant development was the thirty one and a half hundred tonne technological level twelve budget/energy inefficient jump factor three module, which simplified and standardized jump drive engineering for major combatants, and had a fairly large adoption for commercial starships, since you can only build so many battlecruisers.

C. This allowed any member navy with strategic power projection ambitions to obtain that, without wasting resources to research and design their own jump drives for large starwarships.

D. The eight kilotonne technological level twelve Texas class light cruiser represents the typical designs coming out of that period.

E. Two three hundred fifteen tonne jump drive modules, performance jump factor three, would produce 4'133.333333333333 each, total 8'266.666666666666.

F. Though acceleration factor four and general tonnage would categorize it more as a third class cruiser, sometimes referred to as a colonial cruiser.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

G. First class cruisers could be categorized by era, performance, and tonnage.

H. The pinnacle would be the battlecruiser, to be precise, the dreadnought armoured cruiser, introduced at technological level twelve, three parsec range, acceleration factor six plus, meson spinal mount, and hundred kilotonne plus tonnage.

I. Technological level thirteen would be an upgunned battlecruiser.

J. In theory, the battlecruiser and the battleship concept merge into an intermediate fast battleship, and the heavy cruiser evolved from as an upgunned light cruiser with more protection is now a first class cruiser.

K. At technological level fifteen, we should see super cruisers, upgunned and larger heavy cruisers, while line of battle starwarships would be fast battleships, upgunned and uparmoured intermediate fast battleships.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

L. Armoured cruisers (and protected cruisers, though I'm still trying to figure out that concept) are legacies from technological level eleven.

M. The fifty kilotonne Ghalalk class being the primary example of a second class armoured cruiser in High Guard, though what appears to be armour factor seventeen seems to fly in contradiction to all previous examples, though I'd say that exactly at fifty kilotonnes, it conceivable squeeze into a first class armoured cruiser category.

N. I would speculate that the seventy five kilotonne Amara class with a factor two particle accelerator spinal mount is a first class armoured cruiser;

O. The Khumakirri class is Ghalalk lite, but still qualifies as a second class armoured cruiser, as long as you have decent protection, performance, and a spinal mount.

P. It is possible that late development armoured cruisers qualify by having military hulls, permitting armoured hulls not normally designed for other types of cruisers.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The Terrans were TL12 when the Rule of Man collapsed.
They were TL12 to TL13 when they rejoined the now TL13 Third Imperium?
The Solomani were equal in TL to the Imperium up until the split, so they were both TL14 at the time of the Rim war.

If you don't have it I would suggest you get a copy of Invasion: Earth.

 

[Condottiere]

1. One reason that the Terran beat the Vilani, was because they could leverage their discovery and use of technological level twelve technologies.

2. The Sylean federation appears to have clawed their way back to that.

3. What Terra was doing during this time, who knows?

4. The Solomani Confederation appears to be, at best, half a step behind the Third Imperium technological development - this seems very much canon.

5. There are at present only two systems in the Confederation that are listed at technological level fifteen, one of which seems ideologically pacifistic.

6. The Confederation had only recently breached the technological level fourteen barrier, antebellum, which is why the capture of the Bard Endeavour would have been considered a technological treasure trove.

7. The vast majority of the Confederation Navy order of battle were technological level thirteen, with technological level twelve obsolete spacecraft drawn in as they needed to make up the numbers.

8. Recent publications show that the Confederation Navy has (limited) access to technological level fifteen industrial base.

 

[Condottiere]

Confederation Navy: Cruiser Gap and Battleship Building Programmes

Q. So, it seems that, for the Imperium at least, armoured cruisers are still relevant at technological level fifteen.

E. Whereas the Confederation Navy never bothered to either design nor build them.

S. A modernish example would be the Graf Spee, equipped with eleven inch guns, which by that time, probably were three generations behind in terms battleship calibres.

T. Journalistic hype appears to have upgraded the seventeen kilotonne panzerschiff into a pocket battleship.

U. The Imperium still sees value in that type of starwarships, but trying to evolve them from technological level eleven to fourteen, now fifteen, looks like a struggle.

 

[Sigtrygg]

4. It isn't. By 1105 they are a full TL lower then the Imperium.
The Solomani were at the same TL as the Imperium when they split. Read Invasion: Earth - both TL14.
6. The Solomani were part of the Imperium when they split - they had the same TL base, which at the time was TL14. Look at the TLs of the worlds in the Solomani Rim sector - those worlds were Solomani before the war.
What the Solomani have failed to do is advance to a military base of TL15, but TL14 is their standard for front line warship design.
7, This is just canonically wrong. I designed some of the ships in the T20 supplement.

SHIPS OF THE SOLOMANI NAVYSolomani naval ships are based around the following performance characteristics: Jump-3 and Maneuver-5. Ships which do not require high speed, like support elements, Fighter Carriers and tankers generally have Maneuver-2 drives. The new Deep Strike Cruisers and Destroyers have Jump5 capability enabling deep penetration of enemy territory. The new Fast Dreadnoughts and latest TL-14 cruisers and destroyers are capable of Jump-4. Such Jump-4 ships are often grouped together.

 

[Condottiere]

4. What are we arguing about here, as I've mentioned that the Confederation Navy was a technological level behind; also, they only managed to construct technological level twelve Victory class battlecruisers after secession.

6. For whatever reason, it took a while for the Confederation spaceyards to ramp up production of technological level thirteen spacecraft; maybe the Imperium stripped out technological level thirteen industrial assets before they left.

7. If you study the Confederation Navy order of battles, you'll note that technological level fourteen starwarships were rare, and that Imperium Naval intelligence didn't think they would make much of a difference.