Solomani Confederation (Military)
- Thread starter Condottiere
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I was thinking of the shotguns, but that's a pretty neat solution, and apparently, extendable.
If the magazines are fixed, you can take off ten percent off the receiver cost, though it's a sort of questionable economy at this stage.
Law level five is just below automatic weapons, and a lever action would definitely disqualify a gun from that; it might become a question of magazine capacity.
Speaking of which, I imagine that using a handgun receiver would bring this to mind.
If the magazines are fixed, you can take off ten percent off the receiver cost, though it's a sort of questionable economy at this stage.
Law level five is just below automatic weapons, and a lever action would definitely disqualify a gun from that; it might become a question of magazine capacity.
Speaking of which, I imagine that using a handgun receiver would bring this to mind.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
FRED FLINTSTONE FUSIL
Big bang, big bux, big buck.
Weapon
. Fred Flinstone Fusil
Type
. Handgun
Component
. receiver type
.. handgun
... base cost
.... one hundred seventy five starbux
... actual cost
.... 43.75 starbux
... base weight
.... eight hundred grammes
... quickdraw
.... four
.. ammunition type
... heavy rifle
.... base damage:
..... four dice
.... ammunition cost
..... two and a half starbux
.... base range
..... four hundred metres
.... base ammunition capacity
..... eighteen rounds
.... actual ammunition capacity
.... zero/chambered
.... signature
..... physical
...... high
.. mechanism
... single shot
.... cost
..... minus seventy five percent
.. totals
. barrel
.. rifle
... quickdraw
.... zero
... cost
.... 13.125 starbux
... weight
.... four hundred grammes
. furniture
.. stock
... cost
.... 4.375 starbux
... weight
..... eighty grammes
Totals
. quickdraw
.. four
. cost
.. 61.25 starbux
. weight
.. 1'280 grammes
Accessories
. scope
.. cost
... fifty starbux
.. weight
... two hundred grammes
Big bang, big bux, big buck.
Weapon
. Fred Flinstone Fusil
Type
. Handgun
Component
. receiver type
.. handgun
... base cost
.... one hundred seventy five starbux
... actual cost
.... 43.75 starbux
... base weight
.... eight hundred grammes
... quickdraw
.... four
.. ammunition type
... heavy rifle
.... base damage:
..... four dice
.... ammunition cost
..... two and a half starbux
.... base range
..... four hundred metres
.... base ammunition capacity
..... eighteen rounds
.... actual ammunition capacity
.... zero/chambered
.... signature
..... physical
...... high
.. mechanism
... single shot
.... cost
..... minus seventy five percent
.. totals
. barrel
.. rifle
... quickdraw
.... zero
... cost
.... 13.125 starbux
... weight
.... four hundred grammes
. furniture
.. stock
... cost
.... 4.375 starbux
... weight
..... eighty grammes
Totals
. quickdraw
.. four
. cost
.. 61.25 starbux
. weight
.. 1'280 grammes
Accessories
. scope
.. cost
... fifty starbux
.. weight
... two hundred grammes
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You're looking at a recoil of two, which in theory could be compensated against, but you drop half a dice, which means that at two and a half times a greater cost per bullet than a battle rifle, with the only advantage a third greater range.
Basically, you want a longarm receiver to soak up that recoil, but the concept is getting effect for cheap.
Speaking of cost, a gauss slug costs half a starbux, which is one fifth of that of a heavy rifle, so any military is likely to push to re equip their troops with gauss weaponry, even if repair and maintenance is more expensive and manpower intensive.
On the other hand, a military that doesn't expect much action, or any, may be more inclined to keep their chemically propelled slug throwers.
Which is where the heavy rifle and anti materiel guns come in, as some form of deterrence against armoured troops.
Basically, you want a longarm receiver to soak up that recoil, but the concept is getting effect for cheap.
Speaking of cost, a gauss slug costs half a starbux, which is one fifth of that of a heavy rifle, so any military is likely to push to re equip their troops with gauss weaponry, even if repair and maintenance is more expensive and manpower intensive.
On the other hand, a military that doesn't expect much action, or any, may be more inclined to keep their chemically propelled slug throwers.
Which is where the heavy rifle and anti materiel guns come in, as some form of deterrence against armoured troops.
Last edited:
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The Fred Flintstone Fusil is about as far as you can push damage potential on the handgun receiver.
I tend to think that recoil should be based on the (greater) original damage dice, rather than the (lowered) adjusted one with, for example, shorter barrels.
You'd need a skill level of two to reckon with that much recoil, and if you're that experienced, you'd opt for a more expensive gun.
Do I think that the Fusil is realistic?
No.
I suspect the chamber would have blown itself up at some point, and since the barrels are based on the receiver, whether that elephant cartridge or twenty two long rifle barrel is exactly the same.
As is the receiver.
At the lower end of possible length, ten inches, that would be a nasty surprise at close quarters, chances of missing are slight, and if you're already spending two and a half starbux on the bullet, and since you're on your own ship, armour piercing and/or high explosive, to make it one shot, one kill.
I tend to think that recoil should be based on the (greater) original damage dice, rather than the (lowered) adjusted one with, for example, shorter barrels.
You'd need a skill level of two to reckon with that much recoil, and if you're that experienced, you'd opt for a more expensive gun.
Do I think that the Fusil is realistic?
No.
I suspect the chamber would have blown itself up at some point, and since the barrels are based on the receiver, whether that elephant cartridge or twenty two long rifle barrel is exactly the same.
As is the receiver.
At the lower end of possible length, ten inches, that would be a nasty surprise at close quarters, chances of missing are slight, and if you're already spending two and a half starbux on the bullet, and since you're on your own ship, armour piercing and/or high explosive, to make it one shot, one kill.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
So, as I understand gun development and Traveller combat mechanics, the submachinegun is based on the medium handgun cartridge, three dice minus three, and the full three dice comes from burst fire automatic three, which sort of precludes semi automatic.
Sorry, I got that wrong.
Automatic three is fully automatic, which means plus three to damage is the maximum you can milk out of that mechanic.
Burst fire is automatic two, so that's plus two to the damage dice.
So, how do you get automatic one, since that would give you a plus one to the damage dice; double tap?
Sorry, I got that wrong.
Automatic three is fully automatic, which means plus three to damage is the maximum you can milk out of that mechanic.
Burst fire is automatic two, so that's plus two to the damage dice.
So, how do you get automatic one, since that would give you a plus one to the damage dice; double tap?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
If you're willing to expend money on the ammunition, you can rocketize it, which either gives you an absolute minus four on recoil, or an additional four, making it six for handgun receivers.
You half the weight of the receiver and barrel, and presumably, the stock.
Adjusted for minus one inaccuracy, and a need to hit targets outside of ten metres.
You half the weight of the receiver and barrel, and presumably, the stock.
Adjusted for minus one inaccuracy, and a need to hit targets outside of ten metres.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Folding stock mechanic seems fundamentally wrong.
If you take a full stock, and have it folded to the side, there should be no penalty in accuracy after twenty five metres; it would be essentially like stock, no stock.
If wire, tubular or bar, then the point might be getting the extra points of contact with the shoulder, and you could accept a minus one to accuracy, compared to two.
If you take a full stock, and have it folded to the side, there should be no penalty in accuracy after twenty five metres; it would be essentially like stock, no stock.
If wire, tubular or bar, then the point might be getting the extra points of contact with the shoulder, and you could accept a minus one to accuracy, compared to two.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Any weapon can have a Support Mount rather than a stock. A Support Mount usually takes the form of a tripod but could have other configurations.
I think you can keep the stock.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Small weapons such as handguns and shotguns can be placed on a Support Mount for remote-controlled firing or as booby traps. This makes the weapon unusable in normal combat.
I'm not too sure what that means, since there are enough films where booby traps are set up with shotguns that don't seem to require it's dismantling, and handguns seem to be small enough to clamp them into any number of mounts.
Probably could invoke the modularization rule.
I'm not too sure what that means, since there are enough films where booby traps are set up with shotguns that don't seem to require it's dismantling, and handguns seem to be small enough to clamp them into any number of mounts.
Probably could invoke the modularization rule.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Advanced projectile weapon weighs a tenth less, costs a quarter more, and increases range by a quarter.
This might be important for most rifles, and critical for handguns, but probably not for light rifle using a handgun receiver, since that a base thirty seven and a half metres more, and you're still in the kilogramme to kilogramme and a half weight range. How much relevance a cost increase has is speculative at this level, but it would force a maintenance default of technological level nine, whereas you probably can manufacture or repair one almost anywhere in the galaxy at technological level five.
For intermediate and battle, that's a sixty two and a half, and seventy five metre increase, respectively, so significant.
This might be important for most rifles, and critical for handguns, but probably not for light rifle using a handgun receiver, since that a base thirty seven and a half metres more, and you're still in the kilogramme to kilogramme and a half weight range. How much relevance a cost increase has is speculative at this level, but it would force a maintenance default of technological level nine, whereas you probably can manufacture or repair one almost anywhere in the galaxy at technological level five.
For intermediate and battle, that's a sixty two and a half, and seventy five metre increase, respectively, so significant.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Part of the factors you need to consider is how much a sidearm is is supposed to cost, if you can segment the military market about as much as the civilian one.
During one logistics discussion about recent events, it did come up exactly how long you expect an assault rifle to last, or would be lost, precluding the need to repair or maintain it.
For a kilostarbux, you're getting a pretty good deal for the assigned advanced combat rifle, and for half that, an assault rifle is tolerable; interestingly, another five hundred starbux in the other direction gets you a gauss rifle, at a distance of about two to three technological levels.
This stepped cost and performance seems almost staged.
The cost for the care and feeding of privates eclipses the cost of the equipment, especially if you include interstellar travel.
So essentially, if you think you're saving money by supplying inferior equipment, you aren't.
So, if we're tinkering about with the weapon platforms trying to shave off costs, this is likely for equipment supplied to local, indigenous recruits, that just needs to be good enough for them to accomplish their missions, lasting just long enough for the conclusion of the conflict, and/or they are incapacitated.
Because, the Confederation doesn't need surplus infantry equipment, and the local authorities are probably going to crack down on gun ownership post bellum, or so I heard is going to happen once the border dispute is settled in favour of the aggressee.
During one logistics discussion about recent events, it did come up exactly how long you expect an assault rifle to last, or would be lost, precluding the need to repair or maintain it.
For a kilostarbux, you're getting a pretty good deal for the assigned advanced combat rifle, and for half that, an assault rifle is tolerable; interestingly, another five hundred starbux in the other direction gets you a gauss rifle, at a distance of about two to three technological levels.
This stepped cost and performance seems almost staged.
The cost for the care and feeding of privates eclipses the cost of the equipment, especially if you include interstellar travel.
So essentially, if you think you're saving money by supplying inferior equipment, you aren't.
So, if we're tinkering about with the weapon platforms trying to shave off costs, this is likely for equipment supplied to local, indigenous recruits, that just needs to be good enough for them to accomplish their missions, lasting just long enough for the conclusion of the conflict, and/or they are incapacitated.
Because, the Confederation doesn't need surplus infantry equipment, and the local authorities are probably going to crack down on gun ownership post bellum, or so I heard is going to happen once the border dispute is settled in favour of the aggressee.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I think Fred needs to adopt a new receiver, replacing the handgun with the assault, so upgrading recoil from two to four, which accommodates the heavy rifle cartridge.
I'm now unclear as to exactly how ammunition capacity works.
Is this based on the ammunition type, or the chosen receiver?
It seems more accurate to have it be based on the receiver, which means the Crewmate [handgun/intermediate rifle] would have a base ten round capacity [handgun receiver], not thirty [intermediate rifle ammunition].
I'm now unclear as to exactly how ammunition capacity works.
Is this based on the ammunition type, or the chosen receiver?
It seems more accurate to have it be based on the receiver, which means the Crewmate [handgun/intermediate rifle] would have a base ten round capacity [handgun receiver], not thirty [intermediate rifle ammunition].
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Default performance probably should be based on between receiver versus customary barrel length.
Handgun receiver - handgun barrel.
Assault receiver - assault barrel.
Longarm - rifle barrel.
Handgun receiver - handgun barrel.
Assault receiver - assault barrel.
Longarm - rifle barrel.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Twenty five, fifty, one hundred and three hundred metres seem to be the range milestones.
Once the range is beyond twenty five metres, you need a stock or you're penalized.
Fifty metres is the extent a laser will point things out to you.
A hundred metres, and you need scope, if stressed, otherwise if you have all the time in the world, iron sights to three hundred metres.
Standard smoothbore and gauss pistol have a hundred metres; shotgun pellets twenty five metres.
Once the range is beyond twenty five metres, you need a stock or you're penalized.
Fifty metres is the extent a laser will point things out to you.
A hundred metres, and you need scope, if stressed, otherwise if you have all the time in the world, iron sights to three hundred metres.
Standard smoothbore and gauss pistol have a hundred metres; shotgun pellets twenty five metres.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Light rifle cartridge - two dice, one hundred fifty metres.
Minimal barrel - 2D3, five metres, penetration minus two, quickdraw plus eight, physical signature plus two.
Short barrel - 1D6, fifteen metres, penetration minus one, quickdraw plus six, physical signature plus one.
Handgun barrel - 1D6, thirty metres, penetration minus one, quickdraw plus four.
Assault barrel - 1D6, seventy five metres, quickdraw plus two.
Carbine barrel - 2D6-1, hundred thirty five metres.
Long barrel - 2D6, hundred sixty five metres, scope plus one.
Very long barrel - 2D6, hundred eighty seven and a half metres, scope plus two.
Minimal barrel - 2D3, five metres, penetration minus two, quickdraw plus eight, physical signature plus two.
Short barrel - 1D6, fifteen metres, penetration minus one, quickdraw plus six, physical signature plus one.
Handgun barrel - 1D6, thirty metres, penetration minus one, quickdraw plus four.
Assault barrel - 1D6, seventy five metres, quickdraw plus two.
Carbine barrel - 2D6-1, hundred thirty five metres.
Long barrel - 2D6, hundred sixty five metres, scope plus one.
Very long barrel - 2D6, hundred eighty seven and a half metres, scope plus two.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
So, why bother with the light rifle?
It's sort of the lower range, from survival rifle to the poni gun; the poni gun is basically a modernized elephant gun with double barrels and five dice of damage, while the survival gun you're likely hunting wabbits.
However, from what I've heard from the Outremer, military snipers use the light rifle to take out guard dogs, and incapacitate protestors, probably why reporters wear helmets and bullet proof clothing. If the bullets are home made, harder to attribute liability.
Probably can take out mini drones, as well.
Modularization rule allows you to exchange the barrel, if specified, at no cost or extra weight.
Going by the above guide, the carbine, rifle and very long barrels allow you to keep the two damage dice, and extreme range of five hundred forty to seven hundred fifty metres, take out very shy wabbits.
Minimal barrel sounds like having none.
Short barrel for close quarters, if you have nothing else, fifteen metres being within twenty five, so you could use it without a stock.
Handgun and assault barrels might be more for marksmanship contests.
The survival rifle would, at least the really cheap ones, have a folding stock and a removable carbine barrel, which would be one better than the current models, since it would be basically in three pieces and even easier to stick into the backpack.
If you really wanted to militarize the handgun/light rifle, you bullpupize, and give it full automatic, which bumps up damage to two dice plus three.
In space, any hole in a spacesuit is potentially fatal, so armour piercing capability, advanced, which is plus two; down to earth against unarmoured opponents, wound enhancing with plus two per dice but lower penetration, which might work for the interior of spacecraft as well.
Explosive is only going to get you an extra dice, which might be something for short barrel.
I'm a little sceptical about special ammunition for light rifle, but if allowed, you have gas, sedatives, distraction, and possibly flechettes.
It's sort of the lower range, from survival rifle to the poni gun; the poni gun is basically a modernized elephant gun with double barrels and five dice of damage, while the survival gun you're likely hunting wabbits.
However, from what I've heard from the Outremer, military snipers use the light rifle to take out guard dogs, and incapacitate protestors, probably why reporters wear helmets and bullet proof clothing. If the bullets are home made, harder to attribute liability.
Probably can take out mini drones, as well.
Modularization rule allows you to exchange the barrel, if specified, at no cost or extra weight.
Going by the above guide, the carbine, rifle and very long barrels allow you to keep the two damage dice, and extreme range of five hundred forty to seven hundred fifty metres, take out very shy wabbits.
Minimal barrel sounds like having none.
Short barrel for close quarters, if you have nothing else, fifteen metres being within twenty five, so you could use it without a stock.
Handgun and assault barrels might be more for marksmanship contests.
The survival rifle would, at least the really cheap ones, have a folding stock and a removable carbine barrel, which would be one better than the current models, since it would be basically in three pieces and even easier to stick into the backpack.
If you really wanted to militarize the handgun/light rifle, you bullpupize, and give it full automatic, which bumps up damage to two dice plus three.
In space, any hole in a spacesuit is potentially fatal, so armour piercing capability, advanced, which is plus two; down to earth against unarmoured opponents, wound enhancing with plus two per dice but lower penetration, which might work for the interior of spacecraft as well.
Explosive is only going to get you an extra dice, which might be something for short barrel.
I'm a little sceptical about special ammunition for light rifle, but if allowed, you have gas, sedatives, distraction, and possibly flechettes.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In the midrange, between the poni gun and the plinker, you'd have the assault, the battle and the heavy rifle.
You're not hunting wabbits this time, but protecting your loved ones from feral hogs.
Good news, they don't fly now.
However, they can swim.
Apparently, one was swimming in the ocean and took a bite out of a surfer's board in Hawaii.
So Fred Flintstone Feral Hog Gun.
You're not hunting wabbits this time, but protecting your loved ones from feral hogs.
Good news, they don't fly now.
However, they can swim.
Apparently, one was swimming in the ocean and took a bite out of a surfer's board in Hawaii.
So Fred Flintstone Feral Hog Gun.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
For a full stock plus folding, which would mean no penalty versus whatever the Field Catalogue folding stock is.
It's still ten percent weight but fifteen percent cost of receiver, the five percent being the cost of the hinge, presumably.
In whatever mechanic this originated from, it probably should be higher, in regard to the likely cost of the default folding stock.
Maybe eleven percent weight, and seventeen percent cost.
It's still ten percent weight but fifteen percent cost of receiver, the five percent being the cost of the hinge, presumably.
In whatever mechanic this originated from, it probably should be higher, in regard to the likely cost of the default folding stock.
Maybe eleven percent weight, and seventeen percent cost.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
1. Overheating is an interesting concept.
2. Heat dissipation seems to correspond to recoil.
3. Thresholds seem to be reached three, six and nine times heat dissipation.
4. Except for handguns, where it may have been rounded up.
5. Heat equals damage dice plus automation factor.
6. Which again, corresponds to recoil.
2. Heat dissipation seems to correspond to recoil.
3. Thresholds seem to be reached three, six and nine times heat dissipation.
4. Except for handguns, where it may have been rounded up.
5. Heat equals damage dice plus automation factor.
6. Which again, corresponds to recoil.
