Solomani are missing Uplifted species

[Condottiere]

Speaking of spiders, if you're a male, and you know that sex is an extreme sport that can literally get you eaten by your female partner, would you participate?

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

And yet we use our intelligence to not rape every stranger, or gang up and tear strangers apart...

Some of us do. But I wouldn't suggest visiting Sentinel Island or other isolated tribes. It wasn't that long that "She was asking for it" was a justification for rape that would get by a jury. There are a lot of human animals out there.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Speaking of spiders, if you're a male, and you know that sex is an extreme sport that can literally get you eaten by your female partner, would you participate?

I just watched the Babylon 5 episode the other day where Sinclair has to warn a guy that the species he is trying to seduce eats their mates. He changes his mind.

 

[Galadrion]

Do humans act like uplifted chimpanzees?

Depending on the human, I'd say it ranges from "uplifted chimpanzee" to "downrated baboon".

 

[Condottiere]

Barboorian.

 

[actionman]

And yet we use our intelligence to not rape every stranger, or gang up and tear strangers apart...

which is more my point, intelligence trumps animalism.

I disagree. Vigorous effective law enforcement does that, not intelligence. Where law enforcement is lacking or ineffective, rape, ganging up, and tearing people apart is exactly what happens.

And intelligence is far too frequently used to rationalize and justify animalism rather than control it.

 

[actionman]

Barboorian.

Which show or media is this illustration from?

 

[Condottiere]

I have no idea.

Picture search seems to indicate One Piece.

 

[Tom B]

True, but there are a lot of inhabited planets in Traveller that have dense atmospheres. Once those giant spiders figure out how to build space ships, there will be lots of places for them to go, where they can find delicious humans to eat. With the WBH you should be able to calculate pretty precisely whether they'd be able to breath well enough, in case your players start complaining about being eaten by scientifically inaccurate giant spiders.

Humans and chimpanzees have about 5 million years of separate evolution, so lots of time to each evolve into different patterns of behavior - genetically, but also culturally. Uplifted species don't have that - the scientists tweak whatever genes they tweak, and the uplifted animal might get socialized according to some human-designed program, or not. So depending on what the scientists decide to do - and also on what the unintended consequences turn out to be - a lot of things could happen. Some behaviors might remain - or at least the instinct for those behaviors. A now rational animal might decide not to do those things, but also might still want to do them. Sedentary humans know they shouldn't eat jelly donuts. Still, jelly donuts do tend to get eaten, and this tendency to want this kind of food is based in genetics - our bodies evolved to want high-calorie food because it used to be useful for us to want that. Our minds reward certain behaviors, which might or might not be things we rationally should do, and these have evolutionary roots. With uplifted animals, these behaviors might get removed or not, by intention or by accident (genes sometimes do more than one thing,and changing one thing can have unintended side effects)

In short, the point is that there are lots of potential outcomes from uplifting - particular behaviors could change from the original animals, or not. Adding intelligence would definitely change their behaviors overall - but we still might see behaviors of the old species.

Some spiders have lungs - I specified insects as he problem. Having Terrestrial giant spiders is probably more feasible, though their legs would have to change as mass increases, legs have to get thicker and thicker to support.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Some of us do. But I wouldn't suggest visiting Sentinel Island or other isolated tribes. It wasn't that long that "She was asking for it" was a justification for rape that would get by a jury. There are a lot of human animals out there.

A tiny minority defines and entire species then?

 

[Sigtrygg]

I disagree. Vigorous effective law enforcement does that, not intelligence.

Without intelligence you can not organise the community that leads to the construction of morality, ethics and law.

Where law enforcement is lacking or ineffective, rape, ganging up, and tearing people apart is exactly what happens.

Give me one example of an animal species that has laws...

And intelligence is far too frequently used to rationalize and justify animalism rather than control it.

We are in danger of starting another political/ethical discussion here.

Do not judge the majority by the actions of a misguided minority.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Without intelligence you can not organise the community that leads to the construction of morality, ethics and law.

Give me one example of an animal species that has laws...

Wouldn't an animal's territorialism be counted as a "law"? Many different animal species are territorial and will defend that territory.

 

[Sigtrygg]

No, a human law is very different from an instinct.

 

[Tom B]

Give me one example of an animal species that has laws...

Many pack animals have leaders that will discipline lower ranking members that break the rules, including killing them. I'm trying to think of some good examples.

Another thing to consider is war. Chimpanzees and one species of mongoose will go to war with neighbouring groups.

 

[MasterGwydion]

No, a human law is very different from an instinct.

I would argue that being territorial is not an instinct. Flinching when someone goes to hit you is an instinct. Instincts are what we use without thought. You don't "mark your territory" without thought. You also don't defend your territory without thought. Many territorial animals will not attack an obviously superior opponent (if they win, then obviously they didn't consider their opponent obviously superior) even if it invades their territory.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Many pack animals have leaders that will discipline lower ranking members that break the rules, including killing them. I'm trying to think of some good examples.

Another thing to consider is war. Chimpanzees and one species of mongoose will go to war with neighbouring groups.

Again, these are animal instincts not laws. They follow these behaviour patterns and can not think of an intelligent way of dealing with situations.

Intelligence allows for the construction of moral codes, ethics, religion. No animal species does this.

 

[actionman]

We are in danger of starting another political/ethical discussion here.

I agree.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Intelligence allows for the construction of moral codes, ethics, religion. No animal species does this.

How do you know this? Sounds like an assumption to me.

By the way humans are an animal species.

 

[Sigtrygg]

How do you know this? Sounds like an assumption to me.

Go ahead and give me one example of an animal species that displays any of the above.

By the way humans are an animal species.

If you are going to resort to that sort of argument don't bother replying, you are trolling.

 

[MonsterX]

Again, these are animal instincts not laws. They follow these behaviour patterns and can not think of an intelligent way of dealing with situations.

Intelligence allows for the construction of moral codes, ethics, religion. No animal species does this.

Chimpanezes clearly have a sense of justice, in many respects, but for example, they become angered over unequal treatment; see this video of an experiment on it: Chimp justice experiment

Lots of higher intelligence animals seem to have moral codes, according to researchers. These are mostly the usual suspect: whales, dolphins, apes. The elephant behaviour cited earlier certainly implies a moral code: the desire for revenge arises from a sense of injustice. Eye for an eye.

Obviously, human ethical codes are much more elaborate.