Soldier going multi-class (thief)

[Trodax]

...except feint is only a standard action, so one blow can be feinted, but if ther eare other multiple attacks, they won't be lost as a simple attack is also a standard action. Right?

The only way to get more than one attack per round, is to use a full-attack action. This goes both for extra attacks you get because you have a high BAB and for extra attacks you might get from fighting with two weapons.
Feinting is a standard action, or a move action if you have Improved Feint. This means you won't be able to use full-attack in the same round as you feint.

 

[Sutek]

Oh yeah...duh. I see what you mean. That was pretty obvious too...not sure what I was thinking...

 

[argo]

...Tumble (yes you take the armor check penalty, but 5 ranks gets you the bonus to fighting defensevly which is good if you never intend to pick up Expertise)...

There is a restriction that says that the Tumble skill may not be used at all when your speed has been reduced (medium and heavy armour). I would personally rule that this restriction also extends so that you don't get the synergy bonus to fighting defensively when in medium/heavy armour.
.

Well, thats clearly a house rule. The bonus to fighting defensevly is a benefit of having five ranks in the skill, IOW a benefit of your trainning in tumbling. Just because you can't use the skill doesnt' mean you loose the ranks or the benefit of those ranks.

Later.

 

[Vermillion]

Lets re-define the question. Instead of "what skills are good for a soldier/thief" lets start with you telling us what exactly you want out of your soldier multi-class, what role do you hope to fill/does the party need, what kind of tasks do you hope to do?

I might as well disclose my character name, that way my DM who also skims this forum can be sure it was me who's been complaining here. I guess by now, any player in my group will have recognised me .

The reason I fancied adding a level of thief is because a cimmerian has some nice bonusses on climb and move silently, and because I like the sneaking aspect. So I'm not a thief into robbing or stealing, more a thief into sneaking, couple that to my fighting skills, I'd call myself a hyborian age equivalent to a covert ops soldier. I also liked the idea because I didn't feel my soldier had enough depth and input to add to the group. I mean, I felt like the henchman.

Due to the fact that my char has low wisdom, I actually had -2 in listen and spot, so a lot of my thief skill points needed to go in there, as the soldier skill points weren't enough to crank those skills up. Which left me with a low search, hide, open locks, whatever. Which is why I started feeling bad about the whole deal

 

[Trodax]

Since you are a Cimmerian, maybe you should consider getting the 1st level of Barbarian. That will give you at least a bit more skill points to put into Spot, Listen, Hide, Move Silently etc., and you'll also get a bonus feat since its the favoured class for your race (as well as the Track feat for free).

Compared to continuing as a Soldier, you will loose out a little bit on Dodge/Parry (which is kind of bad), but you will get a nice boost to your Fortitude and Reflex saves. Your BAB and hp will be unaffected, which is always nice.

Just a thought.

 

[Sutek]

Now, see, me...I guess I'm one of those "jerk" type GMs, because I wouldn't even allow you a level in some class without events in the game opening a door for you to take that opportunity, ya know? You have to be stealing stuff to take a level in thief. You have to spend time aboard a pirate ship to take a level in pirate.

Use the game to tell you what you should do with your character, not bonuses and penalties. Meta-gaming just makes the whole experience more fun, IMO.

 

[argo]

more a thief into sneaking, couple that to my fighting skills, I'd call myself a hyborian age equivalent to a covert ops soldier.

Yeah, add this to your previous post about being the only melee character in a three-man party and I am really starting to feel that Thief may be the wrong multi-class for you. Combining Soldier with either of Barbarian or Borderer should give you a prety effective "covert ops" type character. Unless your party spends most of its time in urban environments then I'd suggest you look more storngly at one of those.

Plus Barbarian is your favored class. You could use the bonus feat from that to take the Alertness feat and thus offset your -2 listen/spot penalty (or likewise take the Stealthy feat).

You seem to want to be some sort of reconasance/scout/sentinel character. Focus on the stealth and perception aspects. If your group has need of a lock buster/trapmaster ... ask the Scholar to drop some skill points on it, he can afford it.

Oh, and this build won't give you any sneak attack, but should you manage to stealth your way up to an unsuspecting opponent remember his flat footed DV is still 10. Channel that excess attack bonus into Power Attack for a suprise-round massive damage kill. Not as versatile as a sneak attack but still a good Plan B.

Hope that helps.

 

[argo]

Now, see, me...I guess I'm one of those "jerk" type GMs, because I wouldn't even allow you a level in some class without events in the game opening a door for you to take that opportunity, ya know? You have to be stealing stuff to take a level in thief. You have to spend time aboard a pirate ship to take a level in pirate.

Use the game to tell you what you should do with your character, not bonuses and penalties. Meta-gaming just makes the whole experience more fun, IMO.

Thats fair enough. But remember that many groups consider classes to be nothing more than building blocks for realizing the character that the player envisions. Neither view is inherently superior IMO.

Though conan does encourage your view a bit more with its flavor-heavy classes.

Later.

 

[Sir Hackalot]

In that similiar vien, I am curious as to why you didn't start off as a Barbarian if your character was a Cimmerian?

 

[Sutek]

While a valid question, it's a bit beside the point, but maybe his GM didn't explain the multiclassing/favored class feat bonus situation well.

Were you aware that if you choose a favored class for your race (Barbarian for Cimmerians) you get a bonus feat, in addition to all other feats you'd normally recieve, at 1st, 5th and 10th levels? Now, that's only if you level up in that class at that level (Cimmerian Barbarian 4 gaining Barbarian 5, for instance) and not if it's in another class (Cimmerian Barbarian 4 gaining Soldier 1 wouldn't get the bonus feat).

That can add up to a lot of feats.

At least taking levels in Barbarian at this stage, too, gets you more skill points than Soldier, although not as many as Thief. However, you'd get that bonus feat for Barbarian 1 (as Hackalot eluded to) plus a lot more Skill points than more Soldier levels if you are sufficiently intelligent.

 

[Diabolus]

The five ranks in bluff, is something I hadn't considered, unfortunately, I'm Cimmerian, so currently I have -2 in bluff checks, so I'd have to put 7 ranks in there, right?

Actually, you'll still have 5 ranks in Bluff, even if you are -2 on your Bluff Skill Checks, so the synergy bonuses are still awarded.

 

[Vermillion]

Once again, many thanks for the info.

Now for some replies. Like the 'jerk'-DM P) said, My DM won't let me take a class out of the blue, and certainly not Borderer or Barbarian. I think it says so in the description of those classes that they're more like a way of life.. Thief was a possibility because our characters had been in a city for a while, and we had contacts with the thief society there.

So basically my choices were these: add a level or soldier, or become soldier-thief. From a RP perspective it was cooler doing the latter.

Now as to why I didn't start out with Barbarian as a Cimmerian. Maybe that was because I didn't feel like being a Barbarian.. And yes, being favoured class has bonusses stats-wise (extra feats), but it also means you'll have a main-stream character, and I don't like that. I kind of think it's cool NOT being favoured class, how 'bout that?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

In my campaign a soldier-thief is usually the result of someone becoming an assassin or the Hyborian version of 'Black Ops' agent like described in Hyboria's Fiercest.

 

[Sutek]

I kind of think it's cool NOT being favoured class, how 'bout that?

hehe

I know what you mean, and I typically choose the same route to some extent, but then you can hardly gripe about being short changed because of class choice, can you? If you're deliberately choosing something atypical and "against type" than you have to expect to fall short somewhere eventulally.

What I'd suggest is that a Cimmerian Soldier is more trained and disciplined (any soldier for that matter) and is probably less likely to suddenly become a Thief. If I were you GM I'd suggest a level or 2 or either Barbarian, Nomad or Borderer to show his transition to an uncouth way of life.