So, Mongoose...other milieus, 1248 and all that.

[GamerDude]

...I'm done here. And on this board, for that matter

To be honest, I (and others) will believe that when we see it. This is what the 5th you declared that you are storming off in a huff because people were standing up and not taking your attitude. I need to go get in the pool for how long that lasts THIS time.

[auote="EDG"]I'm sick of the continued abuse and harrassment from you. You clearly have a mental problem and a serious inferiority complex, you have done nothing but take potshots at me since I got here, and you have gone out of your way to snipe, harrass and insult me (and now you're even targeting me with your sig) when I haven't said a damn thing to you.[/quote]When? the first months you were here? or may I include you going and reporting every post I made to the admins count? You're the one who has said some vile things about people that evidently required your silly useless sig as a way to show how tough you are. Legally it means nothing (over the pond). Meh

I have no idea what I ever did to you, but get the **** over it.

Man we've been round and round on this, in PM's here, openly, in emails involving you, me, capt jack, and MSprange.


.......
Let me be honest here, you are smart, you know stuff I've no hope of getting near. I loved just reading your early world building thread but said nothing because I had no clue on the science at the level you were talking. That I will miss if you truly are gone. When you're nice and polite, letting others have their opinions (and share them) you are an outstanding forum member whose posts I enjoy reading.

It's your arrogance, the "only I know what I'm talking about" mentality that kills it. Others on here recently called you on the carpet for misleading quotes and leaving out the parts that would make your argument moot and such. Just chill out, get a thicker skin, stop having to always be right, because being a genius and having a PhD doesn't make you right every time. In fact, the reason I won't consider a Spica product is because you run their forums and I'm not going somewhere you are able to just slash and burn those who agree with you.

If you choose to really stay away this time then I will honestly be saddened. I won't go to the sfrpg forums since you own them for the same reason as Spica. Maybe you do best in your own playground I don't know but the good EDG will be missed at least by me.

Best of luck in your future, be well EDG.
Al B.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

In fact, the reason I won't consider a Spica product is because you run their forums...<snip>...I won't go to the sfrpg forums since you own them for the same reason as Spica.

Wrong. I own and run those forums.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

So that we're all be clear on this: EDG hasn't actually written a Spica Publishing product. He provided a core idea for our Nemesis Class Pursuit Ship book, but that's all - he didn't write any of the material in that book, nor did he contribute in any other way other than the original idea.

if you want to fly across the pond, and across the US to join us.

EDG doesn't live in the UK. He's actually closer than you'd (like to) think

So, to summarise:

1. EDG does not own the Spica Publishing boards - I do;
2. EDG does not own the SFRPG.org.uk boards - I do;
3. EDG does not run the Spica Publishing boards - I do;
4. EDG does not run the SFRPG.org.uk boards - I do;
5. EDG has never written a Spica Publishing product, although he did provide one core idea for one of our books;
6. EDG does not own, run or operate Spica Publishing - I do;
7. EDG doesn't live in the UK - he's very close to the US.

 

[captainjack23]

So that we're all be clear on this: EDG hasn't actually written a Spica Publishing product. He provided a core idea for our Nemesis Class Pursuit Ship book, but that's all - he didn't write any of the material in that book, nor did he contribute in any other way other than the original idea.

if you want to fly across the pond, and across the US to join us.

EDG doesn't live in the UK. He's actually closer than you'd (like to) think

So, to summarise:

1. EDG does not own the Spica Publishing boards - I do;
2. EDG does not own the SFRPG.org.uk boards - I do;
3. EDG does not run the Spica Publishing boards - I do;
4. EDG does not run the SFRPG.org.uk boards - I do;
5. EDG has never written a Spica Publishing product, although he did provide one core idea for one of our books;
6. EDG does not own, run or operate Spica Publishing - I do;
7. EDG doesn't live in the UK - he's very close to the US.

So, just to keep it clear, you may want to comment on what his relationship is with spica and SFRPG.

 

[GamerDude]

Thanks Guffy...

I agree with Capt Jack, what is edg's relationship with Spica pub and the two sites?

And, I've always know you to be reasonable and enjoyed your posts.

Can I assume that should I sign up for the forums I won't be experiancing any of EDG's

Again Guffy, thanks so much for clearing all that up.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

EDG is an Admin on both boards. He deals with the software side of things, as well as the usual Admin stuff. As you are probably aware, a Hiver with a screwdriver is never a good thing - in the past, I have managed to make both boards, or bits of either board, disappear into Teh Interwebs with my well-intentioned but clumsy Hiver-y attempts at controlling the board software.

With regards to Spica Publishing, EDG acts in an advisory/playtest/another pair of eyes capacity - he has spotted numerous gaffs and typos in SP products, he has raised valid and incisive questions about our products (along the lines of "Why do it that way when you could do it this way, and not have to make three un-necessary dice rolls, and get rid of two tables?"); if I need information about a particular start type or have "what sort of planet would orbit a <insert star type>" question, I ask EDG, because I am not knowledgable enough to get it right on my own. If I want a no nonsense, straight forward opinion on something, I ask EDG.

He also contributes to the business side of SP by raising questions. Did you know that, until recently, there was a problem over on DTRPG with the software that generates the "100 Small Press" list? No, neither did I, until EDG spotted it, and when I emailed the tech guys at DTRPG they said they'd look into it. They emailed me back 2 days later and - guess what? - they said there was a bug in the software that meant the 100 Small Press list wasn't up-dating itself with sales from across all of the OneBookShelf sites (it was only using DTRPG data), so they fixed it and now it works properly.

I can think of *at least* four other people on other Traveller boards that have given me significantly more grief and aggravation than EDG has ever done. We have and do disagree on things, but that doesn't mean either of us respects each other any the less.

 

[Dave Chase]

...I can think of *at least* four other people on other Traveller boards that have given me significantly more grief and aggravation than EDG has ever done. We have and do disagree on things, but that doesn't mean either of us respects each other any the less.

Have I been that bad already?

And though greatly off thread topic, EDG and I have butted heads several times and we are still talking.

It's easy, when you reach that point where you agree to disagree or know that you are sure you will not be able to get your point across, you stop and go on to something else.

I feel that there is more than one individual who feels that they need to be 'right all the time' here. :lol:

Heck Phil and I really tore into each other and both walked away, mad as hell at the other. (IMO)
But I still read and comment on some of his posts.
He still has lots of history, knowledge and background that is of interest.

Point is, I don't have to like a person, agree with everything they say or do, but I can still respect the person's right to express themselves.
Cause I (still yet ) have the right to stop reading, ignore and not post in reply to that individual (whom ever they might be).

Dave Chase

 

[GamerDude]

Thanks Guffy and David,

I've said EDG is highly intelligent. and I'm glad he's helped Spica. I've tried to explain to him how I felt but from day one he was very arrogant, and got nasty with me in PM about the "science in RPGs" argument, then wouldn't leave me alone.

My post to him that I will miss the good parts about him on these forums is genuine. He converses on topics I can't even go near.

So, thanks and I'll take a look at Spica stuff.

 

[EDG]

I've tried to explain to him how I felt but from day one he was very arrogant, and got nasty with me in PM about the "science in RPGs" argument, then wouldn't leave me alone.

Al Beddow, you are a liar, and that is putting it as politely as I can. And I've got the evidence to show that you're a liar right here.

I've attached the PM "conversation" that we had that Al is referring to (he had a different name then - "ParanoidGamer", but I've quoted him as "GamerDude" to avoid confusion). Unfortunately due to mailbox limits, I didn't keep all my outgoing messages to him, but I did keep the replies he sent to me where he included quotes from my outgoing messages so you can see the sort of tone I was using (at least on what he quoted). But this is all quoted directly from my mailbox with no editing - unlike him, I have no interest in lying to people in order to make myself look good.

As you can see, he's the one being abusive, arrogant and nasty, and calling the other side childish names - not me. If the language he used is him trying to tell me "how he felt", then he's got a lot of nerve calling me "arrogant" and "nasty" when I was keeping my responses civilised. Sure, maybe I've used stronger language against him later on, but that's born of the frustration of having to put up with all the abuse I get from him to start with.

And I really don't give a damn if this should be kept private. Al Beddow hasn't even shown me any basic respect from day one, so why the hell should I care if he wants his abuse of me kept private? And I'm sure as hell not going to keep it private when he's made claims about what was said public anyway. So, I must present the evidence against those claims.

As for me "not leaving him alone" - I have been continually harrassed and insulted by Al Beddow from day one (and "day one" is probably the quoted PM exchange, or the original thread it branched from in the MGT playtest). Since then, even in threads where I don't post, he's continuously sniped at me and made very thinly veiled insults without any provocation. I have no interest in him at all, and I certainly am not interested in stalking him, he's been doing that to me all this time. He just won't leave me alone. Hence, I quit.

As for everyone else, I'm really sorry you had to put up with all this crap over the past two years. But I can't apologise for other people's actions, that has to be up to them. I'll guarantee you something though - if Al Beddow is allowed to remain here, you won't hear the end of it. He'll still complain and snipe about me after I've gone.

So here's the real Al Beddow, for all to see. And the real EDG, for that matter. I'll leave the reader to come to his own conclusion about whether Al Beddow - aka GamerDude and ParanoidGamer - is truthful in his representation of me.

Oh, and note that this exchange was from December 2007 - nearly two years ago. And he has continued this behaviour publicly since then.

(and in case anyone gets confused, my parts are in the indented quote boxes - Al's are in the larger boxes).

Listen dude...

You're not getting what I'm trying to say. First, I am a GM, not JUST a player. Then entire discussion was 'applicable and important' to me.

Basically your argument comes down to you're an idiot who can't see past his own viewpoint.

Get a life, buy a clue, and go make YOUR OWN version of Traveller that is the "uber-realistic" level of "reality" you crave and leave all of the "irrational just-wanting to have fun" GM's/Players alone.


PS. This is sent in pvt to keep this from hijacking the thread... Keep it private.

Hell, I'm arguing for getting all this complex stuff out of the way for the end user and it seems that all I'm getting is abuse for it. I can't win, it seems.

It's not abuse unless you, as the target/recipient, considers it abuse. I never abused you.

Insulting me because you continually miss the point I'm making isn't exactly giving me a good impression of you. I've not insulted anyone here.

Again, something is an insult if the target/recipient considers it an insult. I do consider your constant trivializing my point and out of hand dismissals insulting.

Nice strawman there. I've not once implied that GMs and players who "just want to have fun" are "irrational". I've said that the fear of realism is irrational, which is completely different. Maybe if you read what I actually said instead of what you think I'm saying we may be able to communicate more clearly. And stop taking it so damn personally.

Damm, if you can't justify your argument in your mind, you dive for the strawman. I have ZERO fear of 'realism'. I have a total distaste for the level "realism" got to in the thread. But, your blanket statement about the fear of realism implies that any discussion of not taking it to the level YOU desire or how YOU see it is a 'fear of realism".

Hell, now you're getting into circular arguments. "I didn't say that I meant this. I didn't mean this I said that." I've had several friends (highly educated, respected in the game design community amongst other areas), and they all agree... your posts are worded only to be confusing, stir things up and 'bait' people into responding. I guess you have a need for attention.

I really don't know how you can misunderstand what I say so much, because I'm writing it in plain and clear english. It seems to me that you've got it in your head that I'm saying something I'm not and you refuse to change your mind when I correct you about it. Either way, there's really no point in talking to you any more - if you can't understand what I'm saying then there's not much I can do about it.

Gawd, listen to you. "if someone can't understand me it's only THEIR fault." Do you also walk on water? Is every that ever happened not your fault and always because people just don't understand you/screwed you over/because your mommy didn't breast feed you?

Oh trust me. I understand what you've been saying. But as I said... this is about YOU seeing everything someone says as either A)agreeing with/validating you or B) inconsequential and the person/opinion is to be trivialized & marginalized.

Have a Merry Christmas. It's like what, your 2007th birthday?

Dude...

Give it up. I've got like 15 different people following your stupidity.

Go have fun in your own universe. I think your next public "walking on water" demo is in 10 minutes. (meaning, you have THAT high of an opinion of yourself)

So, does anyone still actually believe that Al Beddow is the wounded, misunderstood party here who deserves your sympathy? Do you still think I'm the one who started throwing insults around, or that I was the one being "arrogant" and "nasty" in that initial PM conversation? Or do you perhaps now see that he's lying through his teeth about his interaction with me, and twisting everything around to make himself look like the innocent victim? What I quoted in this post is the unedited truth from my PM box - what he said in his post was a complete lie. So think about that before you trust his opinion about me ever again.

With that, I'm out of here. I just came back to let Matt know I was leaving, but I think I'll send him a PM present of this too.

 

[Anonymous]

It seems quite simply to me, if your after expert advice about things then ask an expert - that seems to me to be a sound idea.

So when your looking for advice about planets/stars then ask EDG.

Ive made a few maps for Avenger products that ive asked for advice into what needed changing to be more realistic as well ive got no real knowledge to it.

Being one of us whose been round the block in the Travellers editions and forums/mailing list I have seen people aiming at EDG for what I do believe as no more than target practice.

Ignore him or dont thats your choice but it really looks like there are axes to grind and when and where ever possible.

As mentioned time and time again canon is only important to those writing/working on OTU products and NOT the people playing the game, your OTU your changes.

Rog.

 

[MJD]

I get along fine with EDG, although we disagree on stuff sometimes.

Maybe it's because we keep discussions as 'I disagree and here's why...' rather than veering off into 'I disagree and therefore you are an idiot...'

 

[Vile]

I've watched threads being derailed by this sport of "EDG sniping" (or Malenfant sniping in earlier times) since I first got into Traveller forums back in 2004 or 2005. There's no doubt that the Evil Doctor does not take kindly to this sort of thing, but then, that's his prerogative. I can only assume that people find this more entertaining than trying to pick fights with people who ignore them, which may explain the high incidence of such threads over the years. I have had many civil disagreements with him over the years - but I fail to see why we continue to see this kind of sniping in what one supposes are generally forums frequented by consenting adults.*

I can think of few things more important to this game than a reasonable knowledge of the physical stuff in the universe, and there is only one person in the gaming world that I know of who can give me that. I know where to find EDG if I need him - on the SFRPG forums. People new to Mongoose Traveller might no, and that's unfortunate for them.

*At least I assume we're all adults. We could all be 13-year old girls as far as anyone knows ...

 

[TravellerArt]

I for one am sorry to see EDG go from these boards but I understand why. It does seem to be open season on him when ever he joins or starts a thread.
GamerDude, consider why someone would be driven away from a board that they both like and have contributed so much too, an attitude adjustment and some respect on your part could have avoided this. EDG has a supermassive amount of science knowledge to offer and this is now denied to the other members.
I expect this sort of stuff on CotI but not here, it really leaves a sour taste reading threads like this.

 

[captainjack23]

I for one am sorry to see EDG go from these boards but I understand why. It does seem to be open season on him when ever he joins or starts a thread.
GamerDude, consider why someone would be driven away from a board that they both like and have contributed so much too, an attitude adjustment and some respect on your part could have avoided this. EDG has a supermassive amount of science knowledge to offer and this is now denied to the other members.
I expect this sort of stuff on CotI but not here, it really leaves a sour taste reading threads like this.

There are anti-EDG snipers here, and also on quite a few websites he is or was on. There are also those who have been sniped at by him. It takes two to tango.

If EDG is happier leaving, let it be. Chiming in on how unreasonable this all is once he's left is too little, too late; and only encourages more pissing on him in response when he either can't respond, or be dragged back in to a situation which clearly makes him irate and or miserable. If you have respect for him, respect his decision and let it go.


Edited to avoid fanning fires due to poorly thought thru comment on my part.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with Beech here, having EDG not around is a big loss to the forum.
Maybe I hope he will reconsider about his decision but with the baiting he gets Im not putting money on it, nice job for that one.

 

[Anonymous]

Edited out content as requested, best approach IMHO.

Rog.

 

[captainjack23]

Deleted for the same reasons as Roger's comment above. Thanks for the civility.

 

[Anonymous]

Jack,

Post deleted as I agree with you that this needs calming down and not getting out of hand.

Rog.

 

[GamerDude]

After talking with my family and several people whom I trust in these forums, I realize that I am the horrible monster EDG has been exposing to you all and, in the interest of what is right depart.

No "returning to tell Matt i'm gone" or anything. Just "later".

Someone please tell EDG that horrible piece of filth has left the building.

 

[Anonymous]

Post deleted, I didn't see everyone else had agreed to stop while I was writing a reply.

But for EDG, you've been called out for twisting the truth, including what you want leaving the truth behind. Post what you want because I know what's missing.

The last bit is unnecessary as we have gone out and edited our posts.

Let this be the end of it and back to the OP now please.

Rog.