Sinister Presence

[Demetrio]

Yeah, I was thinking more that rather than be ignored as a threat, the temptress would be valued as a prize. Hence would be grappled/stunned rather than cut up. Might not be as useful as the sorcerer's version but isn't exactly worthless either.

The submissive feats are okay in their way too though.

 

[kintire]

Hence would be grappled/stunned rather than cut up. Might not be as useful as the sorcerer's version but isn't exactly worthless either.

Well, its not worthless, but I wouldn't take a feat for it. Defeated but alive is better than defeated and dead... but I prefer powers that lead to victory!

 

[Demetrio]

Thing is the submissive feats don't really 'bring victory' either... though I guess you wouldn't take either of them... and I doubt I would either. As a class feature though my version doesn't suck away a feat slot. In truth though I just suggested it as a Temptress form of 'Defensive Blast' alternative. I don't think it need or should be as powerful as a sorcerer's version.

 

[kintire]

Thing is the submissive feats don't really 'bring victory' either

They can be used to do so though. They result in you being left alone to act, not beaten unconcious instead of dead.

 

[Demetrio]

Okay so modify it so that any opponent who is overcome and attacking her will grapple with the intent to hold her still. If she struggles he will apply nonlethal force until she either stops struggling or falls unconscious. Only if he is reduced to 10 hp or less, or required to make an MD save will he resort to lethal damage.

That version lets the temptress take an opponent out of the fight. He grapples her and then holds onto his 'prize' while his fellows dispatch the other pcs (or not as the case may be). This is more useful tactically, especially if a major bad guy is 'immobilised' this way.

 

[kintire]

Yes, I like this version!

 

[Demetrio]

Yes, I like this version!

There is no charge...

 

[Ichabod]

We have a PC with True Submissive and he loves it (when he doesn't forget that his character has it).

Of course, we have players who don't quite grasp the concept of a RPG party and are perfectly willing to throw other players' PCs under the bus - "don't kill me, I'm harmless, but feel free to kill all of my 'friends', in which case I'll join your obviously superior side".

Not to say it never helps the party. Thieves have nuclear capability but issues surviving long enough to launch, so his thief gets enough time to get into position for final strikes. If we ever bothered using tactics in combat, my main character - low offense, meaty meatshield - would partner well.

 

[LilithsThrall]

LilithsThrall wrote:

That's a shade too powerful in my opinion.

It's quite nothing compared to Power Attacking with a two handed weapon!...
Anyway, if the Sorcerer makes any agressive move, the ability wears off. So it's not that powerful, as it's more a Defensive ability. Scholars need protection in the game, as much as PCs than as NPCs.

In my campaign sorcerers often are often o/s even before they can cast a single spell or reveal the secrets of their evil diabolical plans. Now they got the time for their megalomaniac speeches! :twisted:

Targets who fail their first save should be able to heroically overcome their fear and attack anyway.

If heroically means burning a Fate Point, that's fine by me. If the targets get a new Will save each round, then the ability becomes close to useless.

Nonetheless, I think this ability is really adapted to hyborian sorcerers. Actually, it's more in the mood of the game than the Defensive Blasts (especially the weird effects of 2nd Ed DBs!)

I agree that Sorcerers need a power boost. I also agree that this power is more in line with a Hyborian age Scholar than the various defensive blasts are. I don't like all-or-nothing effects (and I don't care whether that all-or-nothing effect is sorcerous or something else). The reason I call this all-or-nothing is that, once the target fails his/her save, he/she is completely at the mercy of the Sorcerer for the effect to end. I don't think all-or-nothiing effects are in keeping with the spirit of a world where characters often overcome Herculean odds.