Singularity Errata

[Terry Mixon]

Do see anywhere on any of the official ship write-ups where it breaks down the life support cost? No? So, directly on the write-ups, there is nowhere stating how many people are in each stateroom. That is all We are saying. Put it on the official write-ups, so We know at a glance how many are double-occupancy and how many are single-occupancy.

From a spreadsheet viewpoint, I have no idea. Others are way smarter than Me when it comes to spreadsheets.

^^^This^^^

 

[AndrewW]

How do you calculate how many passengers a liner can hold so you have the right life support costs? Staterooms. If the default is double occupancy, that is different than if the default is single occupancy. I’m not advocating for one or the other, only asking for a default set of assumptions when designing ships as spreadsheets don’t make assumptions. They work of rules so it has to be spelled out which is used.

But you don't know. Say you have a passenger liner, it holds 50 passengers. Ok, but what if only 10 are on a given trip?

 

[MasterGwydion]

But you don't know. Say you have a passenger liner, it holds 50 passengers. Ok, but what if only 10 are on a given trip?

and if We only talk about the crew section? That should be a fixed number in officially published ships.

 

[Terry Mixon]

But you don't know. Say you have a passenger liner, it holds 50 passengers. Ok, but what if only 10 are on a given trip?

How would you know maximum occupancy? The word staterooms has multiple meanings in this case.

Spreadsheets don’t care. If you have a max passenger load, you need to account for it. Might you run partially empty? Sure, but the default needs to be stated for shipbuilding purposes because you don’t plan on maybes, you plan on maximum designed occupancy.

 

[MasterGwydion]

How do you calculate how many passengers a liner can hold so you have the right life support costs? Staterooms. If the default is double occupancy, that is different than if the default is single occupancy. I’m not advocating for one or the other, only asking for a default set of assumptions when designing ships as spreadsheets don’t make assumptions. They work of rules so it has to be spelled out which is used.

Bad example. Number of passengers fluctuates, but the number of crew should remain the same on officially published ships.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Bad example. Number of passengers fluctuates, but the number of crew should remain the same on officially published ships.

This is true for crew, but you need to know the max planned occupancy or you run out of air.

 

[MasterGwydion]

This is true for crew, but you need to know the max planned occupancy or you run out of air.

Yeah, but that has to be recalculated every trip. Even if they start off with life support for their full capacity, they will only have to replace what they use, so the cost will fluctuate with every trip.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Yeah, but that has to be recalculated every trip. Even if they start off with life support for their full capacity, they will only have to replace what they use, so the cost will fluctuate with every trip.

That is actual use and true. For design purposes the fire marshal demands maximum occupancy numbers.

 

[Condottiere]

You get a sleeping bag, no, a hammock, an oxygen regenerator, a bucket, and two litre water bottle, and that's basic accommodations.

It's actually easier maintaining life support for large spacecraft, because economies of scale kick in, and redundancy is easier/cheaper.

 

[MongooseMatt]

So, in other words, there is no such thing as a "Single Occupancy Stateroom". All Staterooms default to double occupancy unless otherwise stated since all Staterooms have 2 beds?

Worth pointing out... there is no such thing as a standard stateroom in Charted Space, even if they all look the same in deck plans. Every shipyard will have its own approaches, and different ship classes will have their own variations.

Ultimately, as with other things in Traveller, things are not tightly defined because they should not be tightly defined. Choose what you want your staterooms to look like - and then change it for a different type of ship. That is how it would work out in the 'real' Charted Space

 

[Condottiere]

Could be one big common area, like a nudist beach.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Worth pointing out... there is no such thing as a standard stateroom in Charted Space, even if they all look the same in deck plans. Every shipyard will have its own approaches, and different ship classes will have their own variations.

Ultimately, as with other things in Traveller, things are not tightly defined because they should not be tightly defined. Choose what you want your staterooms to look like - and then change it for a different type of ship. That is how it would work out in the 'real' Charted Space

Then what is the point of having a rulebook? You are directly contradicting previously established Canon. Is that your intent? The whole point of the SPA is standardization. So, anywhere in the Imperium that you go, you can get the same parts for your ship. Otherwise, you would never be able to maintain your ship anywhere except the world that built it, because as you just said, there is no such thing as a standard stateroom.

This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. The whole foundation of the 3I is and was standardization. Take that away and the whole Imperium falls. Sorry, you have to take your Tigress BatRon from the Spinward Marches all of the way to Depot in Fornast, We don't carry those parts here. Oh, you have a Free Trader built on Capital? Congratulations, now you must go to Captial to have it maintained because they are the only place you can get those parts.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Ultimately, as with other things in Traveller, things are not tightly defined because they should not be tightly defined.

Except when they should, of course; life support isn't budgeted in cost per stateroom or cost per bunk, but in cost per person you want to be kept alive...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Except when they should, of course; life support isn't budgeted in cost per stateroom or cost per bunk, but in cost per person you want to be kept alive...

^^^this^^^

 

[Arkathan]

Except when they should, of course; life support isn't budgeted in cost per stateroom or cost per bunk, but in cost per person you want to be kept alive...

But also, life support IS budgeted by by both stateroom AND the number of people.
People are easy. Do a headcount. Warm x 1000Cr, Cold x 100Cr.
Double staterooms cost more to operate than single staterooms, so the operating cost of staterooms is the current variable that leaves people scratching their head and counting on their fingers.
Edit: Or not. Thanks Boggo

 

[Terry Mixon]

But also, life support IS budgeted by by both stateroom AND the number of people.
People are easy. Do a headcount. Warm x 1000Cr, Cold x 100Cr.
Double staterooms cost more to operate than single staterooms, so the operating cost of staterooms is the current variable that leaves people scratching their head and counting on their fingers.

And this could be settled completely if Mongoose just differentiated and listed how many of each were used. Take one extra step and spell out what you mean in published ships.

 

[boggo2300]

But also, life support IS budgeted by by both stateroom AND the number of people.
People are easy. Do a headcount. Warm x 1000Cr, Cold x 100Cr.
Double staterooms cost more to operate than single staterooms, so the operating cost of staterooms is the current variable that leaves people scratching their head and counting on their fingers.

Both core rules and High Guard say Staterooms cost Cr.1000 a month to operate, if they have one or two occupants, where is that rule changed?
indeed HG says "Employing double occupancy on a ship does not cost anything (which is why many commercial captains insist on it) but lack of privacy for extended periods of time can quickly wear on crew not used to it."

High & Luxury staterooms cost more for life support but a double occupancy of ANY of the three types of stateroom explicitly does not according to the passage above in HG, so what am I missing?

 

[Arkathan]

Both cpre rules and High Guard say Staterooms cost Cr.1000 a month to operate, if they have one or two occupants, where is that rule changed?
indeed HG says "Employing double occupancy on a ship does not cost anything (which is why many commercial captains insist on it) but lack of privacy for extended periods of time can quickly wear on crew not used to it."

High & Luxury staterooms cost more for life support but a double occupancy of ANY of the three types of stateroom explicitly does not according to the passage above in HG, so what am I missing?

I am giving up searching for the reason I have been feeling guilty for a year about refusing to implement an increase in double occupancy on my design sheet... only to find out that I was doing it right by "being rebellious."
Now, I know it WAS a thing, because I actively resisted implementing it. But I have no clue where it is now. Thanks. one less thing to worry about.

 

[boggo2300]

I am giving up searching for the reason I have been feeling guilty for a year about refusing to implement an increase in double occupancy on my design sheet... only to find out that I was doing it right by "being rebellious."
Now, I know it WAS a thing, because I actively resisted implementing it. But I have no clue where it is now. Thanks. one less thing to worry about.

Reassuring to me as well, I thought I was missing something!

 

[Condottiere]

Double occupancy can lead to triple occupancy.

How much life support do rugrats require?