Singularity Errata

[Terry Mixon]

not the way I look at it, The single occupancy stateroom is nothing but an administrative out to make it easier to figure out Life Support costs the room itself is unchanged if there is one resident or two. so in the case of if your officers get single berths or have to double up, it's more or less up to the captain.

And that uncertainty makes it impossible to design ships without including extra staterooms because maybe they might be needed. Set a baseline expectation and that goes away.

 

[boggo2300]

Exactly.

and there shouldn't be, what sort of weird universe would it be if every ship had to have every berth filled at all times

 

[Terry Mixon]

but the life support is based on the souls on board, as well as number of staterooms, Every stateroom cost Cr.1000 per maint period if it has 1, 2 or even 0 people in it. Additional to that, every person on board costs Cr.1000 per maint period as well. a single occupant stateroom doesn't include the occupant in life support cost for the stateroom, it's an additional cost for 1 or 2 separate additional costs if there are 2.

But the spreadsheets use single vs double to calculate how many passengers are there. To make it work, one must know which is which.

 

[Terry Mixon]

and there shouldn't be, what sort of weird universe would it be if every ship had to have every berth filled at all times

Real world is different than as designed. Ships are designed with specific occupancy. That is what we are talking about, not what might be done in play later.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I’m not finding that in the core rules or high guard. Is this from a different edition? *looks at @Sigtrygg* Probably. Almost certainly.

I’d be happy if the Mongoose rules said this, but I don’t think they do.

Mongoose now includes the entire CT->MgT catalogue.

The above is from the CT adventure Signal GK - the one with the intelligent microchips...

 

[boggo2300]

And that uncertainty makes it impossible to design ships without including extra staterooms because maybe they might be needed. Set a baseline expectation and that goes away.

I'm not getting your argument, Every Stateroom CAN support 2 people, it doesn't HAVE to have 2 people in it, the only difference it makes to the ship is needing to spend an extra Cr.1000 every maintenance period, the staterooms have no effect on that, there is no uncertainty, the number of staterooms doesn't change, the number of people may change, but thats a different line in the equation anyway

 

[Terry Mixon]

Mongoose now includes the entire CT->MgT catalogue.

The above is from the CT adventure Signal GK - the one with the intelligent microchips...

They sell it, but unless it’s in the Mongoose rules, it isn’t guaranteed to be valid for MgT2e. I’d be happy if this was stated for the rules we’re using and we could have certainty, but once again, it isn’t.

 

[boggo2300]

Real world is different than as designed. Ships are designed with specific occupancy. That is what we are talking about, not what might be done in play later.

what difference does the maximum occupancy of the ship matter? as long as there are enough berths for the required crew and passengers thats it, there is NO difference between a single occupancy and a dual occupancy stateroom, cost, weight and operating costs are the same.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'm not getting your argument, Every Stateroom CAN support 2 people, it doesn't HAVE to have 2 people in it, the only difference it makes to the ship is needing to spend an extra Cr.1000 every maintenance period, the staterooms have no effect on that, there is no uncertainty, the number of staterooms doesn't change, the number of people may change, but thats a different line in the equation anyway

How do you calculate how many passengers a liner can hold so you have the right life support costs? Staterooms. If the default is double occupancy, that is different than if the default is single occupancy. I’m not advocating for one or the other, only asking for a default set of assumptions when designing ships as spreadsheets don’t make assumptions. They work of rules so it has to be spelled out which is used.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The default from day 1 has been that 1 person requires 1 stateroom of 4 tons,

That stateroom may berth a second person providing:

life support is paid for the second person

the ship is military or crewed by PCs.

Later a single occupance stateroom of 2 tons was allowed, along with 3 person 6 ton staterooms.

Then there is the smallcraft stateroom which berths 1, but again if used by PCs or the military it may berth a second person but they must hot bunk - or be really friendly.

 

[Terry Mixon]

what difference does the maximum occupancy of the ship matter? as long as there are enough berths for the required crew and passengers thats it, there is NO difference between a single occupancy and a dual occupancy stateroom, cost, weight and operating costs are the same.

The costs are not the same. It’s the only sticking point but life support costs vary based on what a stateroom can house. If the life support was per room rather than per person, it wouldn’t matter. It does.

 

[Sigtrygg]

They sell it, but unless it’s in the Mongoose rules, it isn’t guaranteed to be valid for MgT2e. I’d be happy if this was stated for the rules we’re using and we could have certainty, but once again, it isn’t.

The setting is the setting, until a MgT adventure or supplement directly replaces an earlier version then the earlier version is a good enough guide.

Heaven forbid Mongoose authors read through previous works and repeat every detail... is it really necessary?

 

[MasterGwydion]

Exactly.

Our point is that that is not broken down anywhere in the official write-ups of these ships. So, there is no way for Us to know, other than taking the final life support cost for the whole ship and breaking it down, how the crew is bunking.

 

[Sigtrygg]

How do you calculate how many passengers a liner can hold so you have the right life support costs? Staterooms. If the default is double occupancy, that is different than if the default is single occupancy. I’m not advocating for one or the other, only asking for a default set of assumptions when designing ships as spreadsheets don’t make assumptions. They work of rules so it has to be spelled out which is used.

I agree with you completely.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The setting is the setting, until a MgT adventure or supplement directly replaces an earlier version then the earlier version is a good enough guide.

Heaven forbid Mongoose authors read through previous works and repeat every detail... is it really necessary?

Having seen how the authors violate their own build rules? Yes, I’m afraid it is.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The default from day 1 has been that 1 person requires 1 stateroom of 4 tons,

That stateroom may berth a second person providing:

life support is paid for the second person

the ship is military or crewed by PCs.

Later a single occupance stateroom of 2 tons was allowed, along with 3 person 6 ton staterooms.

Then there is the smallcraft stateroom which berths 1, but again if used by PCs or the military it may berth a second person but they must hot bunk - or be really friendly.

That’s why I keep defaulting to single occupancy. Latency and my own CT experience. @MongooseMatt said earlier in this thread that he didn’t see why double occupancy wasn’t the default (me paraphrasing) and if that’s the case, I’m happy to use that. It just needs to be officially said somewhere.

 

[boggo2300]

How do you calculate how many passengers a liner can hold so you have the right life support costs? Staterooms. If the default is double occupancy, that is different than if the default is single occupancy. I’m not advocating for one or the other, only asking for a default set of assumptions when designing ships as spreadsheets don’t make assumptions. They work of rules so it has to be spelled out which is used.

the life support costs aren't based on how many passengers the ship can carry but by how many passengers it is carrying.
In the case of a liner the occupancy single or double of a stateroom is whatever the company says it is, if it has 50 staterooms and the company says all 50 of those are double occupancy then it may have 100 passengers, if the company says they are single then it's maximum capacity is 50.

Both core rules and HG say that staterooms are single occupancy by default, but some captains throw in another bed to make them dual occupancy, it literally says
Some ships have bunks in their staterooms rather than single beds, allowing two people to share the same stateroom.

therefore the default is single, but at whoever is in charges discression any stateroom can be used double occupancy. as there is no cost or tonnage difference to make a stateroom Double Occupancy instead of single it's literally just putting a second bed in the room.

 

[boggo2300]

The costs are not the same. It’s the only sticking point but life support costs vary based on what a stateroom can house. If the life support was per room rather than per person, it wouldn’t matter. It does.

the costs ARE the same, a stateroom displaces 4 tons, costs Cr. 500,000 and costs Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support if it has 1, 2, or 0 people in it. in addition to that, but unrelated beyond they need somewhere to sleep, passengers and crew also cost Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support.

I think I'm gonna bow out of this discussion, I just can't see what the issue is.

 

[MasterGwydion]

the costs ARE the same, a stateroom displaces 4 tons, costs Cr. 500,000 and costs Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support if it has 1, 2, or 0 people in it. in addition to that, but unrelated beyond they need somewhere to sleep, passengers and crew also cost Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support.

Do see anywhere on any of the official ship write-ups where it breaks down the life support cost? No? So, directly on the write-ups, there is nowhere stating how many people are in each stateroom. That is all We are saying. Put it on the official write-ups, so We know at a glance how many are double-occupancy and how many are single-occupancy.

From a spreadsheet viewpoint, I have no idea. Others are way smarter than Me when it comes to spreadsheets.

 

[Terry Mixon]

the costs ARE the same, a stateroom displaces 4 tons, costs Cr. 500,000 and costs Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support if it has 1, 2, or 0 people in it. in addition to that, but unrelated beyond they need somewhere to sleep, passengers and crew also cost Cr.1,000 per maint period in life support.

I think I'm gonna bow out of this discussion, I just can't see what the issue is.

Well just have to disagree, then.