Should Moongose Publish an MRQ2 Megadungeon?

[soltakss]

Although the idea of a mega-dungeon could work in RuneQuest, it wouldn't necessarily work in the same way as, say, in D&D.

You rarely get underground complexes in Glorantha. With the exception of the Mostali and Trolls, most things live above ground.

However, Temple Complexes are another matter entirely. I can see a massive dungeon-hack centered at cleaning out a Chaos Great Temple set in a series of caves and ruined buildings. The Tunnelled Hills, SnakePipe Hollow, Plateau of Wrath and Plateau of Statues al make excellent megadungeons.

Alternatively, Mostali Halls make good, if unusual, dungeons, with mechanical mayhem and the occasional gunpowder surprise. Troll caverns are also good, but a bit samey.

RuneQuest had Lord Skyppen's Mansion, Snakepipe Hollow and Dyksund Caverns, all dungeons but not realy into the megadungeon range. It would be nice to see one, but I doubt whether Mongoose would do it as they don't seem to be part of the RuneQuest / Gloranthan psyche.

 

[ThatGuy]

Perhaps a lost colony of Scorpion men?

That's not really the point. I think that there is enough culture and imagination in Glorantha to support several "Mega dungeons" in ways that would be fun and refreshing. I also agree that other things should be priority (Pavis!), but I think it could be cool.

I think it's really just a matter of where and when to set it, how to phrase it, frame it and make it interesting. Perhaps the best feature of Glorantha is that there aren't really any "Bad Guys," just opposing view points. I think that fact alone could make for a very interesting mega-ruins/caverns/crypts/catacombs/dungeons/whatever.

The challenge would be getting characters out alive, as limbs are lost in battles and a serious healing Sorcerer is a must in the proposed mega underground scenario.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I wrote a reply yesterday that got eaten by the internet.
A MRQII megadungeon doesn't have to be a Glornathan one - I can imagine one fitting into an Eternal Champion game, or a Lankhmar one.

For Glorantha I think the 3rd age is more likely than the 2nd to provide them, with the ruins of old EWF or Godlearner settlements (eg Big Rubble, Clanking City) being the natural home for such adventures. That said many of the "natural" dungeon settings from old Chaosium adventures (Rainbow Mounds, Snakepipe Hollow, Five Eyes Caves (from Borderlands) etc) will already exist in the second age, although the inhabitants may be different.

I have no objection to such a product if done well, though it's not something I personally am clamouring for

 

[Darran]

I thought that the Big Rubble was Glorantha's 'Mega-Dungeon'?

 

[mallard]

I thought that the Big Rubble was Glorantha's 'Mega-Dungeon'?

Darran,

Point well taken, but Big Rubble is not all underground.

However, I think that the Devils Playground scenario in Big Rubble could be expanded into a megadungeon. As can been seen from the large scale map, only a small part of the underground complex is detailed in the scenario.

As for Moongose, I want them to finish Pavis Rising as well. However, I think they have a smart and creative team that could make a great megadungeon in 2nd age Glorantha that will sell well if done right.

 

[Darran]

I hadn't realised that 'Dungeons' had to be underground. I thought they were a location for the adventure to take place in?

 

[Loz]

As for Moongose, I want them to finish Pavis Rising as well. However, I think they have a smart and creative team that could make a great megadungeon in 2nd age Glorantha that will sell well if done right.

'Pavis Rising' has an ickle dungeon in it...

As to a megadungeon? Well, Clanking City's underground labs and so on suggests itself, as do various Mostali mines and troll strongholds. Any of those could easily be expanded into levels and rooms linked with corridors.

What needs to happen, though, is careful thought being given to the internal ecology of whatever you do come up with. Also the mechanics of dungeon crawling in RQ are far different to D&D for example. If you need heavy-weight healing it means reliance on certain cults, and once divine healing spells are exhausted you can't just rest and get them back the next day.

Personally speaking - and this is personally - I'm not especially attracted to writing dungeon crawls and haven't been for many, many years. I find far greater traction in different kinds of scenarios than the typical open door/kill the monster/take its stuff approach. It can work well on a limited scale (see my comments re 'Pavis Rises' above) and I did enjoy writing the mini-dungeon for 'PR' but a massive, multi-level, monster-filled effort? I'm not sure I'd really enjoy the task. I like storytelling and crafting a framework that will permit interactive storytelling; dungeons don't do that for me I'm afraid - although, I'm sure, with the right kind of premise and a lot of forethought, something might emerge.

 

[Blackyinkin]

Hi,

Surely the Haunted Ruins was a bit of a bit of a mega dungeon, seeing as the Wooden Sword got their booties trounced, I would also class it as one of the tougher ones to.

In an old campaign I ran the players discoverd that the Krasht tunnels Sun County, Devils Playground and the Dsykund Caverns were all interconnected to make a real monster dungeon.

Simon

 

[mallard]

As for Moongose, I want them to finish Pavis Rising as well. However, I think they have a smart and creative team that could make a great megadungeon in 2nd age Glorantha that will sell well if done right.

'Pavis Rising' has an ickle dungeon in it...

As to a megadungeon? Well, Clanking City's underground labs and so on suggests itself, as do various Mostali mines and troll strongholds. Any of those could easily be expanded into levels and rooms linked with corridors.

What needs to happen, though, is careful thought being given to the internal ecology of whatever you do come up with. Also the mechanics of dungeon crawling in RQ are far different to D&D for example. If you need heavy-weight healing it means reliance on certain cults, and once divine healing spells are exhausted you can't just rest and get them back the next day.

Personally speaking - and this is personally - I'm not especially attracted to writing dungeon crawls and haven't been for many, many years. I find far greater traction in different kinds of scenarios than the typical open door/kill the monster/take its stuff approach. It can work well on a limited scale (see my comments re 'Pavis Rises' above) and I did enjoy writing the mini-dungeon for 'PR' but a massive, multi-level, monster-filled effort? I'm not sure I'd really enjoy the task. I like storytelling and crafting a framework that will permit interactive storytelling; dungeons don't do that for me I'm afraid - although, I'm sure, with the right kind of premise and a lot of forethought, something might emerge.

Loz,

I understand that your play style may be different from mine, but I think you are selling the megadungeon concept short when you say that "I'm not especially attracted to writing dungeon crawls and haven't been for many, many years. I find far greater traction in different kinds of scenarios than the typical open door/kill the monster/take its stuff approach."

Imagine a vast underground cavern that is inhabited by competing factions of dwarves mining a vein of iron ore that has a magic dampening effect in the dwarven area, trolls who have hollowed out a colossal stalagmite and made it their home, dark elves tending a fungus forest, and Karsh chaos worshippers who are attempting to pollute the river so that drinkers will develop chaotic features.

This cavern could be bisected by an underground river that feeds into an underground lake and contains newtlings and other aquatic creatures.

Perhaps part of the cavern could geologically active and home to geysers, boiling mud and lava pools. Maybe a race of Lodril worshiping creatures live there, underground relatives of the Agimori, who can control the lava and release it when invaders attack.

There could be competition among the factions for resources, control of the water supply or whatever and the PC's could get sucked into this feud.

This is basically what my co-GM and I are working on for our campaign and the possibilities are nearly endless.

 

[Darran]

Imagine a vast underground cavern that is inhabited by competing factions of dwarves mining a vein of iron ore that has a magic dampening effect in the dwarven area, trolls who have hollowed out a colossal stalagmite and made it their home, dark elves tending a fungus forest, and Karsh chaos worshippers who are attempting to pollute the river so that drinkers will develop chaotic features.

This cavern could be bisected by an underground river that feeds into an underground lake and contains newtlings and other aquatic creatures.

Perhaps part of the cavern could geologically active and home to geysers, boiling mud and lava pools. Maybe a race of Lodril worshiping creatures live there, underground relatives of the Agimori, who can control the lava and release it when invaders attack.

There could be competition among the factions for resources, control of the water supply or whatever and the PC's could get sucked into this feud.

This is basically what my co-GM and I are working on for our campaign and the possibilities are nearly endless.

All that and more could fit overland instead?

 

[Loz]

I understand that your play style may be different from mine, but I think you are selling the megadungeon concept short when you say that "I'm not especially attracted to writing dungeon crawls and haven't been for many, many years. I find far greater traction in different kinds of scenarios than the typical open door/kill the monster/take its stuff approach."

I'm well aware of the possibilities, Mallard, and its not a question of selling the megadungeon concept short. However, writing such a setting requires a certain approach and level of detail that simply doesn't appeal to me anywhere near as much as other scenario settings. What you're dealing with, even on such an extensive scale as the one you're suggesting (and its a very neat idea BTW - good luck with the work you're doing on it!) is a closed ecology. Even in Glorantha, where not everything has to make perfect sense, an underground ecosystem has to have a certain logic to it and would require an inordinate amount of detail that, as I said, I'm not especially attracted to as a writer. As a player, I'd have no problem getting kitted out and wandering the labyrinths for fame and glory, but from a writing perspective I prefer the freer rein that above ground offers. Now, give me a city setting, and I'm a happy bunny...

 

[mallard]

I understand that your play style may be different from mine, but I think you are selling the megadungeon concept short when you say that "I'm not especially attracted to writing dungeon crawls and haven't been for many, many years. I find far greater traction in different kinds of scenarios than the typical open door/kill the monster/take its stuff approach."

I'm well aware of the possibilities, Mallard, and its not a question of selling the megadungeon concept short. However, writing such a setting requires a certain approach and level of detail that simply doesn't appeal to me anywhere near as much as other scenario settings. What you're dealing with, even on such an extensive scale as the one you're suggesting (and its a very neat idea BTW - good luck with the work you're doing on it!) is a closed ecology. Even in Glorantha, where not everything has to make perfect sense, an underground ecosystem has to have a certain logic to it and would require an inordinate amount of detail that, as I said, I'm not especially attracted to as a writer. As a player, I'd have no problem getting kitted out and wandering the labyrinths for fame and glory, but from a writing perspective I prefer the freer rein that above ground offers. Now, give me a city setting, and I'm a happy bunny...

Loz,

I know that you are not interested in writing a megadungeon, but that really wasn't the point of my post. I am not saying that my approach to making a megadungeon would appeal to everyone. It was just an example of the possibilities and there are many other approaches to megadungeons. My point is that megadungeons can be very fun, fit into the Gloranthan world and have been largely missing from RQ/Glorantha.

As for 2nd age Pavis, I assume the city has sewers, catacombs for internment of the dead, dwarven tunnels, Karsh temples/tunnels, etc...

I wish this forum supported polls so we could see how many people would be interested in buying a megadungeon product for RQ. The posts in this thread indicate a high level of interest and the concept is popular among the D&D crowd.

After all, Mongoose is always asking for product suggestions.

 

[mallard]

Imagine a vast underground cavern that is inhabited by competing factions of dwarves mining a vein of iron ore that has a magic dampening effect in the dwarven area, trolls who have hollowed out a colossal stalagmite and made it their home, dark elves tending a fungus forest, and Karsh chaos worshippers who are attempting to pollute the river so that drinkers will develop chaotic features.

This cavern could be bisected by an underground river that feeds into an underground lake and contains newtlings and other aquatic creatures.

Perhaps part of the cavern could geologically active and home to geysers, boiling mud and lava pools. Maybe a race of Lodril worshiping creatures live there, underground relatives of the Agimori, who can control the lava and release it when invaders attack.

There could be competition among the factions for resources, control of the water supply or whatever and the PC's could get sucked into this feud.

This is basically what my co-GM and I are working on for our campaign and the possibilities are nearly endless.

All that and more could fit overland instead?

Darran,

Dwarves, trolls, dark elves and Karsh cultists don't usually live above ground. Of course their are exceptions such as trolls that live in the vale of flowers or troll woods or whatever.

 

[Loz]

I know that you are not interested in writing a megadungeon, but that really wasn't the point of my post. I am not saying that my approach to making a megadungeon would appeal to everyone. It was just an example of the possibilities and there are many other approaches to megadungeons. My point is that megadungeons can be very fun, fit into the Gloranthan world and have been largely missing from RQ/Glorantha.

And I'm not arguing that they're not fun! Remember, I was at pains to say in my earlier post that I was speaking personally. If Matt said to me that my next assignment was a megadungeon for Glorantha or any other setting, I'd get on with the job and try to find a (hopefully) unique twist to it.

As for 2nd age Pavis, I assume the city has sewers, catacombs for internment of the dead, dwarven tunnels, Karsh temples/tunnels, etc...

Yes it does, but these are very recent developments and purely geared towards the city's function. Pavis is a relatively new city in the Second Age and whilst there are mostali-made tunnels beneath it, they're completely functional and designed to support the city's maintenance ('Pavis Rises' goes into this). There are no Krarsht temples in the Second Age, Chaos comes to Pavis/The Rubble, but a lot, lot later, after the city's fall. Most of the underground dungeony bits of The Rubble happen long after the old city has fallen.

I wish this forum supported polls so we could see how many people would be interested in buying a megadungeon product for RQ. The posts in this thread indicate a high level of interest and the concept is popular among the D&D crowd.

Hmmm - I'm sure it does support polls. We had one here not so long ago on historical settings.

After all, Mongoose is always asking for product suggestions.

We sure are. And you never know. That megadungeon may happen at some stage. No current plans, you understand, but never say never...

 

[mallard]

I know that you are not interested in writing a megadungeon, but that really wasn't the point of my post. I am not saying that my approach to making a megadungeon would appeal to everyone. It was just an example of the possibilities and there are many other approaches to megadungeons. My point is that megadungeons can be very fun, fit into the Gloranthan world and have been largely missing from RQ/Glorantha.

And I'm not arguing that they're not fun! Remember, I was at pains to say in my earlier post that I was speaking personally. If Matt said to me that my next assignment was a megadungeon for Glorantha or any other setting, I'd get on with the job and try to find a (hopefully) unique twist to it.

As for 2nd age Pavis, I assume the city has sewers, catacombs for internment of the dead, dwarven tunnels, Karsh temples/tunnels, etc...

Yes it does, but these are very recent developments and purely geared towards the city's function. Pavis is a relatively new city in the Second Age and whilst there are mostali-made tunnels beneath it, they're completely functional and designed to support the city's maintenance ('Pavis Rises' goes into this). There are no Krarsht temples in the Second Age, Chaos comes to Pavis/The Rubble, but a lot, lot later, after the city's fall. Most of the underground dungeony bits of The Rubble happen long after the old city has fallen.

I wish this forum supported polls so we could see how many people would be interested in buying a megadungeon product for RQ. The posts in this thread indicate a high level of interest and the concept is popular among the D&D crowd.

Hmmm - I'm sure it does support polls. We had one here not so long ago on historical settings.

After all, Mongoose is always asking for product suggestions.

We sure are. And you never know. That megadungeon may happen at some stage. No current plans, you understand, but never say never...

Loz,

I think we understand each other, except for one thing - who the heck is Matt?

P.S. I am anxiously looking forward to Pavis Rising.

 

[Titus]

I would be more in favor of a bunch of mini dungeons/caverns/ruins/adventure sites. They could tied together with an optional backstory, but stand-alone would be fine. Things I could scatter around the countryside, or pull out when I am not feeling particularly creative and need something to keep the players busy for a few sessions while I come up with the next big idea. Since I like to run games where I give the players a lot of latitude in determining what their characters do, having these adventure sites available to use gives me something to put where they decide to look if they go somewhere I was not expecting. :wink:

Having said that, I ran some "dungeon crawls" when I ran an RQ2 game many years ago. I used Caverns of Thracia for an extended expedition. I used Tegel Manor as a haunted mansion that the adventures visited many times. Usually they explored a few rooms, fought some nasties, grabbed some loot and ran like hell. (Though one incident in Tegel Manor still comes up from time to time after twenty some odd years. Not often that a player character suicide evokes positive memories for the player. )

So maybe a modular approach where the sections could be used independent of each other if desired?

 

[ThatGuy]

I would be more in favor of a bunch of mini dungeons/caverns/ruins/adventure sites. They could tied together with an optional backstory, but stand-alone would be fine. Things I could scatter around the countryside, or pull out when I am not feeling particularly creative and need something to keep the players busy for a few sessions while I come up with the next big idea. Since I like to run games where I give the players a lot of latitude in determining what their characters do, having these adventure sites available to use gives me something to put where they decide to look if they go somewhere I was not expecting. :wink:

Having said that, I ran some "dungeon crawls" when I ran an RQ2 game many years ago. I used Caverns of Thracia for an extended expedition. I used Tegel Manor as a haunted mansion that the adventures visited many times. Usually they explored a few rooms, fought some nasties, grabbed some loot and ran like hell. (Though one incident in Tegel Manor still comes up from time to time after twenty some odd years. Not often that a player character suicide evokes positive memories for the player. )

So maybe a modular approach where the sections could be used independent of each other if desired?

That sounds cool.

 

[drdentista]

Right now I'm designing a "mega-dungeon" for 2nd age Glorantha, located in the mountains near Castle Kartolin, between Karia and Dorastor...

It is a "secret passage" into Dorastor, used by some of the Chaos beasties there. It is ancient and forgotten by most men, and of course, over the centuries, it has been infested with Krarsht cultists and other bad guys...

TONS of fun

 

[drdentista]

And I also think that the concept of a "dungeon" is a name for a "gaming locale", be it over or under the ground. A dungeon can be a castle or caverns or caves or what have you...

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I think we understand each other, except for one thing - who the heck is Matt?

Matt is the boss. If he decides a Mega Dungeon is a worthwhile investment, then he'll fit one into our writing schedules.

P.S. I am anxiously looking forward to Pavis Rising.

Everyone should. It is excellent!