Ship Design Philosophy

[wbnc]

I'm still purs(u)ing the goal of trying to build the cheapest possible examples of starships.

we really should compare notes

I've played with cheap starships a few times, for my own use or just for fun...they generally tend to be hard to keep up due to the larger systems, reduced room for cargo etc...but they do have an attractive sticker price..sort of like a Yugo.

I have toyed around with the idea of assigning the old ships quirks to new ships, to simulated corner cutting, or cheap components. since each quirk drops the price by 10%C or so....it does make a good way to simulate that bargain basement ship that either breaks down a lot, is closely watched by port authorities due to a reputation for breakdowns and accidents, or having potential customers look at the ship and go.."Nah, Nope..I aint putting m cargo on that ship..."

 

[Condottiere]

1. Which is why I think that starship character generation might be an interesting exercise, but outside of that, yes,this might seem trying to rip off whatever the QWERTY Tee Five system is, but this stream of endeavour would certainly predate my awareness of it.

2. I think the torpedo might be jettisoned in in the next High Guard, with a slower missile having a larger warhead and range, and a faster one with shorter range and a smaller warhead.

 

[wbnc]

1. Which is why I think that starship character generation might be an interesting exercise, but outside of that, yes,this might seem trying to rip off whatever the QWERTY Tee Five system is, but this stream of endeavour would certainly predate my awareness of it.

2. I think the torpedo might be jettisoned in in the next High Guard, with a slower missile having a larger warhead and range, and a faster one with shorter range and a smaller warhead.

Nt so familiar with T5...so have onl the vaguest idea of it's ins and outs....

I've always mentally equated the regular missiles with SAM/Phoenix missiles, optimized for range, speed, and intercept capability...while the Torpedo was more like the Harpoon/silkworm type anti-shipping missile...long range slower, but has enough punch to hurt.


It looks like that is the version they are going with the standard starship missile is an offensive antiship missile, with others being optimized for long range high speed engagement.

 

[Condottiere]

Unless there's a general hard limit back to six gees for spacecraft, I think it's a hint of what's to come.

I believe if you have a greater acceleration, you can out manoeuvre a slower accelerating missile unless it has a proximity fuse.

 

[Condottiere]

Starships: Engineering and Jump Drives

I believe that the compromise between High Guard and alphabet drives, would be to keep the existing formula, but mandate it that each percentage chunk is a minimum of five tonnes, leading to the optimum size(s) of jump drives first reached at five hundred tonnes, while preserving the flavour of large engines in small ships for everything underneath that tonnage.

It would still subject to improvement from higher tech level processes, and probably the prototype penalties one tech level below.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Engineering and Power Plants

Going by Striker, fourteen cubic metres of fusion power plant gives us our current measured output, an economy of scale that isn't repeated at a larger size.

Maybe it should?

Shipboard power plants are supposedly overcloud variants, optimized for jump drive transition; spaceships don't need that, so might be eligible for cheaper power plants.

 

[Condottiere]

Inspiration: Star Maidens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mWDWYg5j3E

Speaking of planets going off course in the seventies.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Armaments and Sandcasters

In this variant, you take the sandcaster weapon system, and mount it on a ground vehicle; you develop standard rounds, like shape charged, high explosive and fletchette.

At 2.1 cubic metres, and with ammo about 0.56 cubic metres, I think you can use it like a very large recoilless cannon.

Should be useful, since it's available at tech level seven.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Armaments and Sandcasters

Come to think of it, you could probably convert sandcasters into heavy mortars with presumably a low signature, as well as a rather bulky recoilless cannon. All you need is the correct fire control equipment and modified ammunition.

This, and shipboard lasers and missiles would be an easy way to circumvent any arms embargo on a world, or give an insurgency access to very heavy weaponry.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Smallcraft, Adventure Class and Capital Ships

Since the ship design systems will all be unified, it does seem convenient to discuss the various categories, and if they still have any relevance.

The three outstanding features seem to be:

1. Jump capability

2. Weapon allocation

3. Acceleration

Hundred tonnes has always been a convenient marker, between utility craft and starships, as well limiting the number and type of weapon systems that could be allocated. The new added bonus was that they could be substantially faster than their larger cousins, though the seventy tonne cut off point seems arbitrary.

That leaves the distinction between Adventure class ships and capital class ones, with the removal of alphabet engines, it's not really going to be engineering.

The advantage that the adventure hulls had for six hundred tonnes downwards was very cheap hulls, probably due to mass production. If the algorithm was revealed as to how to that for any particular tonnage, it could be extended to the larger ships.

If it remains unique to the lower tonnages, that would be the advantage in building in their volume ranges.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Smallcraft Carriers, Pilot Availability, and Permanent Deck Park

It's a rather obvious observation.

The more pilots you have available, the more attractive having lots of combat smallcraft around seems. The other bottleneck would be having smallcraft that they can fly.

Docking the smallcraft externally could be equivalent to having permanent deck parks, which allows both instant launch of hose smallcraft, as well as saving hangar space.

You might wander what is the downside to this, but these smallcraft are more exposed to the elements, whether that of real or jump space, for the advantage of being able to throw more weight at the enemy. Also, if the enemy does manage to breakthrough, any docked ship is likely to get collateral damage, even if they weren't directly targetted or hit, as the carrier gets pounded.

If you are constrained in either pilots of smallcraft, one suggestion is to have armoured carriers, and procure the best performing smallcraft available, keeping them and their air crew well protected.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Modular Construction and Detachable Bridges

If you can have detachable bridges, or even be able to control other bridges through system linkage, bridges should be allowed to be modulared out.

Possibly, under certain circumstances you could do that with the other systems singled out as being unmodularizable, like engineering, though not integral structural and armour options, though armour and structural options that are part of the module should be permitted.

 

[wbnc]

Spaceships: Smallcraft Carriers, Pilot Availability, and Permanent Deck Park

It's a rather obvious observation.

The more pilots you have available, the more attractive having lots of combat smallcraft around seems. The other bottleneck would be having smallcraft that they can fly.

Docking the smallcraft externally could be equivalent to having permanent deck parks, which allows both instant launch of hose smallcraft, as well as saving hangar space.

You might wander what is the downside to this, but these smallcraft are more exposed to the elements, whether that of real or jump space, for the advantage of being able to throw more weight at the enemy. Also, if the enemy does manage to breakthrough, any docked ship is likely to get collateral damage, even if they weren't directly targetted or hit, as the carrier gets pounded.

If you are constrained in either pilots of smallcraft, one suggestion is to have armoured carriers, and procure the best performing smallcraft available, keeping them and their air crew well protected.

When looking up drop tank rules I noticed the rules for deciding if a Drop tank was hit by hostile fire...A similar system could be used for docked craft and modules...each docked object has a percentage chance of being hit by any attack that hits the hull...based on the percentage of the ships total tonnage it has...a 10 ton fighter on a 20kton cruiser would have a fractional chance of being hit by any one shot...but a 50 ton fighter on a 100 ton Scout, would have a 50/50 chance of taking a hull hit for the scout.

since it's outside the small craft takes the damage using it's own armor and hull points..where ship carried internally is protected by the ships armor and hull.

Spaceships: Modular Construction and Detachable Bridges

If you can have detachable bridges, or even be able to control other bridges through system linkage, bridges should be allowed to be modulared out.

Possibly, under certain circumstances you could do that with the other systems singled out as being unmodularizable, like engineering, though not integral structural and armour options, though armour and structural options that are part of the module should be permitted.

technically any system can be built into a modular hull. the limit is percentage of the ships total tonnage...so yeah a bridge, drives, crew quarters, etc could be designated as modular.

Id have to agree with you that Hull modifications like armor, reinforcements, and armored bulkheads would be a no go...since they are integrated directly into the ships main structure.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Armament and Missile variants

Since the issue seems a bit more relevant since that weird acceleration five description in the new book, I think for the military, though not for the commercial sector, who'd be stuck with a common template that allows that cheap price, you can tweak, if not outright redesign, missiles to fit your taste or doctrine in the next High Guard.

Though you could probably make that argument for all weapon systems.

But that lapse for five gees is weird, may indicate some new concept that Mongoose was brewing up but realized was not going to work. Something that playtesting should have eliminated early on.

 

[wbnc]

Spaceships: Armament and Missile variants

Since the issue seems a bit more relevant since that weird acceleration five description in the new book, I think for the military, though not for the commercial sector, who'd be stuck with a common template that allows that cheap price, you can tweak, if not outright redesign, missiles to fit your taste or doctrine in the next High Guard.

Though you could probably make that argument for all weapon systems.

But that lapse for five gees is weird, may indicate some new concept that Mongoose was brewing up but realized was not going to work. Something that playtesting should have eliminated early on.

I think the Five Gee missile has been nixed...it seems it caught a lot of flak. ( initially I fired of a few rounds of flak over it myself.....but had a slight change of heart after considering a few possible angles.

From what I can tell, and what I've been told about the new system..which is "it's still being finalized" the entire ship combat and construction system may be subject to upgrades and overhauls up until the final version is put out.

but if they are still working on the final version it means they are taking their time and seeing what is in demand, or being panned. While i would love to see it out ASAP so I can get to work on rewrites..I am glad they are seriously taking the time to see how their new edition is being received, and possible input from players.

 

[AndrewW]

I think the Five Gee missile has been nixed...it seems it caught a lot of flak. ( initially I fired of a few rounds of flak over it myself.....but had a slight change of heart after considering a few possible angles.

There are various missile types, some do have a thrust of 10+.

From what I can tell, and what I've been told about the new system..which is "it's still being finalized" the entire ship combat and construction system may be subject to upgrades and overhauls up until the final version is put out.

Yes, that's part of the play testing things are still subject to change.

but if they are still working on the final version it means they are taking their time and seeing what is in demand, or being panned. While i would love to see it out ASAP so I can get to work on rewrites..I am glad they are seriously taking the time to see how their new edition is being received, and possible input from players.

Still in progress, should be an open playtest version sometime this month.

 

[wbnc]

I think the Five Gee missile has been nixed...it seems it caught a lot of flak. ( initially I fired of a few rounds of flak over it myself.....but had a slight change of heart after considering a few possible angles.

There are various missile types, some do have a thrust of 10+.

From what I can tell, and what I've been told about the new system..which is "it's still being finalized" the entire ship combat and construction system may be subject to upgrades and overhauls up until the final version is put out.

Yes, that's part of the play testing things are still subject to change.

but if they are still working on the final version it means they are taking their time and seeing what is in demand, or being panned. While i would love to see it out ASAP so I can get to work on rewrites..I am glad they are seriously taking the time to see how their new edition is being received, and possible input from players.

Still in progress, should be an open playtest version sometime this month.

First multiple missile types= Music to my ears.

Play testing in an open structure, with feedback from the fans/players=Ditto

Version out this month= Yippeeeeeeeeeee<snoopy dancing>..oh sorry glad to hear that.

o far the whole process and what i have seen read is making me a happy camper...hopefully some of the fifty pages plus of this thread,(and god knows how many threads before it). will make it into final form.

I've never had a real problem playing The current set, and always found a work around when i did run up on a problem. My one real wish is a unified, vehicle,small-craft/adventure class/capital class construction system...but after working with the rules as written that might be hard to do without reworking a LOT of stuff.

 

[AndrewW]

o far the whole process and what i have seen read is making me a happy camper...hopefully some of the fifty pages plus of this thread,(and god knows how many threads before it). will make it into final form.

Lots of wishes for High Guard over the years have been posted on the forum and things have been taken into consideration. Not saying everything made it in though.

 

[Condottiere]

Starships: Engineering and Jump Drive Bubble

1. Actual diameter has to correlate directly to power input/jump drive output; jump drive may be less or more efficient.

2. Sophisticated jump drives and/or computer programmes can reshape the bubble to some other roughly roundish/ovalish shape.

3. Local jump panels and jump grid should be reintrouduced

 

[wbnc]

o far the whole process and what i have seen read is making me a happy camper...hopefully some of the fifty pages plus of this thread,(and god knows how many threads before it). will make it into final form.

Lots of wishes for High Guard over the years have been posted on the forum and things have been taken into consideration. Not saying everything made it in though.

Oh I wasn't expecting that. I've seen a lot of good ideas pass through the threads, and a LOT of "ummm i think I'll pass" ideas.

has anyone thought of doing a regular edition of player submitted ideas, contributions. to so much a full magazine as maybe a quarterly collection dedicated to the subject of starship design and options?

Signs and portents is great, But with that format you have to be very selective. And cant really focus on just one facet of the game...with the contributors the writing and a set format to follow. It might be a good way to give players more of a feeling of being part of the community/game.