Ship combat rule question

[F33D]

"When targeted by a beam weapon, the
enemy ship may react by dodging, firing sand or triggering screens
(see Reactions).

A ship may react to incoming attacks. The following situations allow
reactions: Targeted by a beam attack"

How does one react to a Laser attack by using sand? You would realize the attack when hit. So, at least the initial attack would be too fast for sand to work against.

 

[far-trader]

"When targeted by a beam weapon, the
enemy ship may react by dodging, firing sand or triggering screens
(see Reactions).

A ship may react to incoming attacks. The following situations allow
reactions: Targeted by a beam attack"

How does one react to a Laser attack by using sand? You would realize the attack when hit. So, at least the initial attack would be too fast for sand to work against.

Depends on how one views the "attack" actually playing out. From CT (and other rules iterations) with its very long combat turns (15 to 20 minutes each) and simultaneous resolution of damage I've always seen it as several or many actual shots fired, saturating the area of the projected location of the ship, basically a cone of fire with the point being the attacking ship and extending out to cover the anticipated target ship's maneuvering potential.

So in combat the first clue the target has that it is being beamed are nearly (or actual) hits detected by the target ship. In response to this by initiating laser defenses such as evasion (possibly moving out of the attackers projected cone of fire), launching sand (defeating at least partly any shots that would hit), or activating other screens (what screens? MgT has screens vs lasers?... or does this refer to other beam effects like Meson Cannon fire?) the ship may avoid being repeatedly hit for more damage (reducing combat hits).

How well this translates to MgT with the shorter combat turns I'm not sure.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

So in combat the first clue the target has that it is being beamed are nearly (or actual) hits detected by the target ship. In response to this by initiating laser defenses such as evasion (possibly moving out of the attackers projected cone of fire), launching sand (defeating at least partly any shots that would hit), or activating other screens (what screens? MgT has screens vs lasers?... or does this refer to other beam effects like Meson Cannon fire?) the ship may avoid being repeatedly hit for more damage.

How well this translates to MgT with the shorter combat turns I'm not sure.

Seems to be the same principle in MgT, though the combat turns are 6 minutes each, with sequential firing based on initiative scores. Still, in a 6 minute turn there should be plenty of time to respond along the lines you suggest, so the justification seems the same.

The screens are nuclear dampers vs fusion guns and nuclear warheads, and meson screens against meson beams. Sand vs lasers.

Egil

 

[F33D]

Depends on how one views the "attack" actually playing out. From CT (and other rules iterations) with its very long combat turns (15 to 20 minutes each) and simultaneous resolution of damage I've always seen it as several or many actual shots fired, saturating the area of the projected location of the ship, basically a cone of fire with the point being the attacking ship and extending out to cover the anticipated target ship's maneuvering potential.

At even medium range taking into account the speed of light & a 1-G drive, the projected location of a Free Trader can be measured as being smaller than the actual ship. So, sounds like a rules glitch. At least for the 1st laser weapon attack.

Quick house rule should handle.

 

[AndrewW]

The screens are nuclear dampers vs fusion guns and nuclear warheads, and meson screens against meson beams. Sand vs lasers.

Egil

And Black Globes and Proton Screens vs antimatter warheads.

 

[Mithras]

Kirk: "Spock?"
Spock: "They are powering up their phaser banks, Captain..."
Kirk: "Evasive action!"

 

[nDervish]

At even medium range taking into account the speed of light & a 1-G drive, the projected location of a Free Trader can be measured as being smaller than the actual ship. So, sounds like a rules glitch. At least for the 1st laser weapon attack.

Even so... Six-minute turn.

Either the lasers fire microsecond shots and need to cool down for six minutes before firing again (in which case reactive sand is nonsense) or they fire a sustained beam/series of pulses over a longer period of time. Let's call it a 50% duty cycle - out of the turn, they're firing for three minutes and cooling down/charging for three. I may not be able to reactively fire sand until after actually being hit, but, even if it takes me a full minute to do so, the sand will still be in place for 2/3 of the laser's actual attacking duration in that turn.

So, no, I have no problem with allowing defensive reactions to laser fire.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

The screens are nuclear dampers vs fusion guns and nuclear warheads, and meson screens against meson beams. Sand vs lasers.

Egil

And Black Globes and Proton Screens vs antimatter warheads.

Never made it to beyond TL15, but if you have, fair enough.

Egil

 

[AndrewW]

Never made it to beyond TL15, but if you have, fair enough.

Egil

Well, black globes start at TL15, and High Guard covers them. As for Proton Screens, they are mentioned in Central Supply Catalogue. And there are some rules covering Proton Screens, however I have no idea when they might see the light of day.

 

[F33D]

Let's call it a 50% duty cycle - out of the turn, they're firing for three minutes and cooling down/charging for three. I may not be able to reactively fire sand until after actually being hit, but, even if it takes me a full minute to do so, the sand will still be in place for 2/3 of the laser's actual attacking duration in that turn.

So, no, I have no problem with allowing defensive reactions to laser fire.

Now, that could work. Beam weapons fire for several minutes at a time.

 

[phavoc]

I'm not quite sure how a ship can react to an attack with evasive maneuvers when its first warning of an attack is the attack itself.

Sensors are light-speed weapons, and lasers are light-speed weapons (or close enough). There is no logical way you can detect an in-bound laser attack using light-speed sensors.

So a defending ship would have to determine ahead of time if its going to do evasive maneuvers, launch sand or activate screens at the beginning of a combat turn.

The only thing you can really detect inbound is missiles, and maybe railgun rounds... but since they are so short-ranged and solid shot, there's nothing you can do to defend against them (black/white globes work, but they work for everything).

Does anyone actually allow for PC's to defend against incoming laser barrages and make the decision right before the attack occurs??

 

[F33D]

I'm not quite sure how a ship can react to an attack with evasive maneuvers when its first warning of an attack is the attack itself.

Sensors are light-speed weapons, and lasers are light-speed weapons (or close enough). There is no logical way you can detect an in-bound laser attack using light-speed sensors.

Those combat rules only work if beam weapons have to fire & hit for several minutes to cause damage to a ship. Otherwise, they are illogical.

Easier to just say they fire for most of a combat turn.