Ship-board Cloaking Device?

[phavoc]

Visual sightings of spacecraft would be highly unlikely at a distance - though occluding a star is a dead giveaway that something is there - whether it be a rock or a ship. So a holographic hull seems excessive unless you are able to spoof other sensors so that any ship closing to visual range would be detect and see what you want them to see. Never underestimate the power of confirmation bias when it comes to people. Even confusing an enemy vessel for a turn while they try to reconcile the differences between the two could make the difference.

Detection is going to be much more reliant upon electronic emissions at a distance, whether they be emissions from your fusion reactor or emissions from your electronics. Even passive systems have some leakage and keeping that to the bare minimum would be essential to evading detection. This is where hiding behind a rock while coasting into a system would give you a lot of protection from detection if you had powered down systems and mil-spec sensors.

The question of infrared is one that is hotly (pardon the pun!) debated. Some claim you can't do anything about your heat other than radiate it away using very visible means. Personally I agree it's a challenge, but using todays tech we have relatively inefficient RTG's that convert heat to energy and if you could make the leap of efficiency and materials it would be possible to convert your thermal signature to energy and you could use it to either power your ship or simply convert to x-rays and emit them into deep space directionally away from the enemy. That gives you the opportunity to have a reasonable expectation of stealth and hiding becomes possible again. But like all stealth it starts to fail when the enemy is willing to use active sensors against you at some reasonable distance. Pretty much any sensor has a spoofing or negation to it - which means there is still some luck and skill in there for GM's and players to use as part of the game.

 

[CordwainerFish]

I have no idea why they call economics 'the dismal science' when thermodynamics is right there.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Visual sightings of spacecraft would be highly unlikely at a distance - though occluding a star is a dead giveaway that something is there - whether it be a rock or a ship. So a holographic hull seems excessive unless you are able to spoof other sensors so that any ship closing to visual range would be detect and see what you want them to see. Never underestimate the power of confirmation bias when it comes to people. Even confusing an enemy vessel for a turn while they try to reconcile the differences between the two could make the difference.

I aalways figured that ship crews would never see anything while in space, not even the things they're shooting at. A scene like the Battle of Endor in Return of the Jedi would still be spread out over hundreds of kilometers, and all you'd see is the moon and the Death Star - even the Executor would be a bright dot if you looked away from your sensors. The movie only shows it at such close range because it looks better for film.

 

[agentwigggles]

Star Occulsion is a thing but I dont think it would matter.
You'd have be native to the system Astromoner to notice. If you dont know the starfield of the system, then you wont know when a star goes missing.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It might be useful for something like a smuggler while on planet disgorging cargo, but in space? No.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Star Occulsion is a thing but I dont think it would matter.
You'd have be native to the system Astromoner to notice. If you dont know the starfield of the system, then you wont know when a star goes missing.

That is what astrogation sensors & computers are for. The astrogation sensor array fixes your position by tracking multiple (at higher TLs, a multitude) of stars after you emerge from Jump. The ships computer would notice of one or more of those stars simply vanished -- even briefly. Passive 'I might need to worry about somebody shooting at me' sensors would notice vectors of ships that occluded stars being tracked.

 

[Terry Mixon]

That is what astrogation sensors & computers are for. The astrogation sensor array fixes your position by tracking multiple (at higher TLs, a multitude) of stars after you emerge from Jump. The ships computer would notice of one or more of those stars simply vanished -- even briefly. Passive 'I might need to worry about somebody shooting at me' sensors would notice vectors of ships that occluded stars being tracked.

That is true, but they only need to do so for a few very powerful ones to do the tracking. Why scan millions of stars when a dozen gives you all the resolution you need? I'd personally doubt the astrogation package would see anything.

 

[J. L. Brown]

That is true, but they only need to do so for a few very powerful ones to do the tracking. Why scan millions of stars when a dozen gives you all the resolution you need? I'd personally doubt the astrogation package would see anything.

Because at TL 7 we built TESS & Kepler. At TL 8+ the technology to track multitudes of stars doesn't cost much; and redundancy increases precision, covers weird edge cases & unexpected failure modes, or spots missed objects that might be on a collision course. Adding the extra capability to do this might 'cost extra', but at TL 12 that 'extra ' is approximately the price of a sandwich.

OR - just do whatever best serves the story in your game. Everyone has their own style.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Because at TL 7 we built TESS & Kepler. At TL 8+ the technology to track multitudes of stars doesn't cost much; and redundancy increases precision, covers weird edge cases & unexpected failure modes, or spots missed objects that might be on a collision course. Adding the extra capability to do this might 'cost extra', but at TL 12 that 'extra ' is approximately the price of a sandwich.

OR - just do whatever best serves the story in your game. Everyone has their own style.

To each their own. I don't envision any technology doing more than is required. The level of precision you gain from scanning the entire sky is actually worse, as it will pick up celestial bodies. All those asteroids eclipsing stars would be a host of false positives. Still, whatever is best for your game is what you should do.

 

[MasterGwydion]

To each their own. I don't envision any technology doing more than is required. The level of precision you gain from scanning the entire sky is actually worse, as it will pick up celestial bodies. All those asteroids eclipsing stars would be a host of false positives. Still, whatever is best for your game is what you should do.

Required by who? A bidet is considered a requirement is some parts of the world, but in the U.S., people are freaked out by them and don't want them anywhere near their homes...lol...

Take two pictures a half-second apart and compare them pixel by pixel. Nothing does this better than computers. If at TL-15 Our computers can be nearly sentient, then they should be able to differentiate. Or make it simple. Anything that doesn't behave like a celestial body, is highlighted for further investigation, and the sensor operator is notified.

I am not sure people need an App on their phone that can control a sex toy from the other side of the globe, but We have those now. People will always use and design technology for more than just the bare minimum.

But, like you said, your world, your vision. I support that.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There is no stealth in space without space magic.

So I can't believe I have been spending so much time working out the details for a Traveller variant cloaking device based off SOM gravitics so it ties in with current handwavium.

 

[MasterGwydion]

There is no stealth in space without space magic.

So I can't believe I have been spending so much time working out the details for a Traveller variant cloaking device based off SOM gravitics so it ties in with current handwavium.

There's no jump drive or artificial gravity without space magic either. Stealth coating reduce your radar signature, even in space. Thermal cloaking could just be venting the heat away from the observer, reducing its signature, by hiding it behind the object they are trying to see. Visual cloaking is easier. Paint the ship a non-reflective black. It is now more stealthy than a yellow or metallic ship. lol You can cut down your emissions, block your EM with a faraday-type device, etc. Although, in the end, you are correct, there is no stealth in space, or on earth for that matter. All We can do is reduce the signature to something that doesn't appear to be big enough to be a ship.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Without space magic you can not hide your waste heat, so stealth is impossible with the power outputs of fusion drives.

Guess I will keep the cloaking stuff to myself then.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Without space magic you can not hide your waste heat, so stealth is impossible with the power outputs of fusion drives.

Guess I will keep the cloaking stuff to myself then.

Cloaking is one of the major sci-fi tropes though. Taking it away would lose a large part of certain sci-fi genres. Even if it is actually impossible. So is casting fireball, but it is hard to play a sword and sorcery game without it. So We keep it, just for that reason, not because it is realistic or even possible.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think using active camouflage is the right call. I handwaved my genius NPC finding a way to combine it with the stealth coating so either or both could be electrically activated. So, the stealth coating space magic can be on or off, and separately, the cloak active camouflage can be turned on and off as well. And since I was a glutton for fun, I rolled the holographic hull in for kicks. VERY expensive, but my players might need that with what I have rolling their way (a VERY variant Ancients campaign).

 

[Sigtrygg]

Without space magic you can not hide waste heat. If you don't have a way to radiate it your ship melts (eventually).

 

[Terry Mixon]

Without space magic you can not hide waste heat. If you don't have a way to radiate it your ship melts (eventually).

Handwaving that is one of the prices we pay for being able to play Traveller. I can live with it.

 

[Vormaerin]

Handwaving that is one of the prices we pay for being able to play Traveller. I can live with it.

2300's version of Traveller doesn't handwave it, so it is certainly possible to deal with the issue if anyone wanted to. So I'd say its a choice, not a price.

 

[agentwigggles]

Because at TL 7 we built TESS & Kepler. At TL 8+ the technology to track multitudes of stars doesn't cost much; and redundancy increases precision, covers weird edge cases & unexpected failure modes, or spots missed objects that might be on a collision course. Adding the extra capability to do this might 'cost extra', but at TL 12 that 'extra ' is approximately the price of a sandwich.

OR - just do whatever best serves the story in your game. Everyone has their own style.

While I dont doubt this is doable within Traveller universe.
I doubt the utility and capability of most civilian ships. Its not useful to them.

We in present time, dont quite have an answer to how you abitary navigation while in transit, current working model, is using deep space field paralax as a fix location, since they have small amount of change through the solar system. The near and middle field as of current understanding doesnt have any utility for navigation.
And spotting incoming collusions from occlusion would be nearly pointless.
The occlusion doesnt give any vector information. Just that something passed in front of the star.
Your spaceship is in transit, its relative position of all the stars in the near and middle field, are constantly shifting. So where the occluding object is, realtive to you, is constantly changing and what vector is has, has no bearing if its occludes a star.
It wouldnt have any meaningful if something was about to run into you, or tracking you.

Maybe this is a MTU, but any TL8+ system with decent size pop will have navigational beacons.
And ships can use each other transponders to know where they are relative to each other, and therefore can infere where they are in the solar system.

 

[Terry Mixon]

While I dont doubt this is doable within Traveller universe.
I doubt the utility and capability of most civilian ships. Its not useful to them.

We in present time, dont quite have an answer to how you abitary navigation while in transit, current working model, is using deep space field paralax as a fix location, since they have small amount of change through the solar system. The near and middle field as of current understanding doesnt have any utility for navigation.
And spotting incoming collusions from occlusion would be nearly pointless.
The occlusion doesnt give any vector information. Just that something passed in front of the star.
Your spaceship is in transit, its relative position of all the stars in the near and middle field, are constantly shifting. So where the occluding object is, realtive to you, is constantly changing and what vector is has, has no bearing if its occludes a star.
It wouldnt have any meaningful if something was about to run into you, or tracking you.

Maybe this is a MTU, but any TL8+ system with decent size pop will have navigational beacons.
And ships can use each other transponders to know where they are relative to each other, and therefore can infere where they are in the solar system.

This is a better, clearer version of my thoughts.