Shadow GEG (pre 2e)

[Sulfurdown]

Yes 2e may have a beautiful addition to the Shadows, but it's still 5 months away (to the first release date) and playtesters can't release too much information about the specifics of the rules. So this is only considering the 1e/SFoS/Arma rules.

Has anyone tried fielding the Shadows with a GEG added to see how it impacts them? I was thinking that a GEG 3 at Raid, GEG 6 at Battle, GEG 9 at War and GEG 12 at Arma. If the rules aren't changed for Damage Resistance, then for the Shadows a GEG 3 would be almost the same as a normal ship's GEG 1

 

[katadder]

shadows are getting a new defensive system but its not GEG.

 

[Burger]

shadows are getting a new defensive system but its not GEG.

Dude, the guy specifically said he didn't want to know about 2e. Read his post ffs!

I think a GEG of those levels you say, would be very nasty. But a smaller one might make the Ship more worthwhile!

 

[katadder]

a GEG on a shadow vessel that cannot take crits would be over the top IMO.

 

[Ripple]

I have always liked the idea of GEG on shadows, but think you have way overstated the values. Remember that the GEG stops per weapon system, excluding crits, to have a GEG 12 would basically just be saying my ships is immune to everything not precise below say War level...and frankly most of those.

A GEG 3 to 5 would be fine. It would stop a die or so of damage from every weapon. That's what kills shadows the most, is lots of ships focusing every weapon they have, not like a of ships which die to the big heavy guns. I just wouldn't want small ships to have no real chance of hurting a shadow, however fluffy that might be, as it would have the issue Minbari have...fluffy but often unfun.

Ripple

 

[Sulfurdown]

a GEG on a shadow vessel that cannot take crits would be over the top IMO.

Remember that "crits" ignore GEG, so a precise weapons will punch through with all 6+d6 damage on it's dmg roll of 6.

A Shadow GEG 12 is roughly equivalent of a normal ship's 3 (technically 3.4...) due to damage reduction, and that's an Armageddon level ship with a GEG 3 (the Drakh MS has GEG 4 at war... but it needs it with the Hull 4) Plus the lack of bulkheads means that all ships will be doing damage with each die that penetrates. That was my reasoning at least.

 

[Burger]

I'd say only the Ship needs it. The Scout and Hunter are fine as-is. The Ship could do with about GEG 6 IMO.

 

[Da Boss]

Be interesting to try but I agree the Scouts don't need it........unless you have a varient scout at battle which does have it and a Beam?

 

[Sulfurdown]

I'm guessing that no one has been able to playtest out a GEG on the Shadows, so...

Quick ave. numbers make it looks like the higher hull on the Ship might require a lower GEG for game balance. I wasn't even thinking Hull values and layered defenses like that. GEG 12 is insane.

 

[Burger]

Well the problem with GEG is that it protects for lots of small weapons well, but not from large ones. For example a Sharlin shooting at a Shadow Shp could quite easily do 80 damage from its Neutron Laser, so a GEG of 12 wouldn't really help much. But a squadron of small ships wouldn't be able to break GEG 12 at all.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Well the problem with GEG is that it protects for lots of small weapons well, but not from large ones. For example a Sharlin shooting at a Shadow Shp could quite easily do 80 damage from its Neutron Laser, so a GEG of 12 wouldn't really help much. But a squadron of small ships wouldn't be able to break GEG 12 at all.

You know, that makes an interesting point. Most of the game functions to encourage taking a bunch a smaller ships almost universally. If the Shadow Ship had a higher level GEG that would not only encourage taking the Ship but it would encourage all other players to push back higher in the Priorities.

 

[katadder]

but would leave only a few targets capable of taking it on. most ships raid or below probably couldnt do it. even as a group.

 

[CZuschlag]

It's just like the Drakh. If you know you're facing the Shadows in a high-priority game and you just take Raid and below ships, not considering what you may be facing -- you get what you deserve.

People, if they know what's coming, don't field a ton of small ships vs. the Drakh -- they field big stuff, giving up the initiative war (rightly so!) in exchange for GEG-piercing arrays. Good call. Shadow opponents should do the same.

The only instance where you don't know before buying forces that you're facing Shadows is in Tournaments -- where you can't afford to buy the Armageddon-level shadow ship normally, anyways. Even in escalation tournaments (5 Skirmish/Raid/Battle) you might be able to buy 1, total. Be aware of it, and select in your battle fleet a few ships with large one-line weapon arrays. They don't even have to be Battle or higher (Dilgar Targraths, Centauri Sulusts, Hyperion's Laser Cannons, Drakh Light Cruisers, the Elutarian's Ballistic Torpedo line isn't bad) to be threats.

If you know that you're facing a Shadow Ship (or think that you might) and only field Thunderbolts and Hermes, you get what you deserve; a Stone Cold can of Whoop-Ass.

 

[katadder]

against drakh you dont take single big ships as the precise beams drakh carry will take them out, you take small ships with decent weapons.
the same would apply to the shadows.

 

[CZuschlag]

Katadder,

The worst spanking I've ever taken with the Drakh was against just such a fleet, tourney setting, Drakh vs. Minbari, 5 Battle, where the Minbari took 1 Morshin, 3 Tinashi, and 1 Shantavi. All big ships, and the battle was done by Turn 3 --- I just didn't realize I had no chance until the end of Turn 5 (curse you, Prelude!).

The Light Cruisers got absolutely flushed by the Neutron Laser line. If he'd have taken 8 Teshlan instead, they probably all would have lived to do their job. As it was, 2 Light Cruisers got vaporized before they could even fire, and 1 Light Cruiser was crippled.

The precise beams only matter if they get to fire, whereas the GEG will always matter.

Just my experience playing them, mind you!

 

[Valen is my name]

wouldnt adaptive armour be better for the shadows?

Which is better GEG (at a reasonable level) or adaptive armour

 

[katadder]

but go 5pt raid as most tourneys and things would be differant. 5 lt cruisers against 2 tinashis and a teshlan and the tinashis will go down quick.
also if you took 10 lt cruisers in that battle i doubt you should have got spanked as easy, 3+ to see most of them straight away.
i know the theory behind it, but doesnt always work.
plus you doing precise on precise there, not everyone has that option.

 

[CZuschlag]

Katadder:

Precise had nothing to do with it. Shantavi fire with CAF and marginally better-than average rolling meant Cruiser-Go-Boom.

Valen:

Given you have Self-Repair, Adaptive is MUCH more powerful than low-level GEG. Think about it this way -- GEG 6 would even out with Adaptive Armor against 11 points of damage. On the current Ancients chart, that's about 3.142 hits of Single-Damage weaponry (or 1.571 hits of Double Damage --- you get my drift). I fyou think your standard weapon system (per Weapon System line, mind you!) will do more than that many hits, you want Adaptive. Less, you want GEG.

Considering that this is an Armageddon-level ship, you're probably looking at more hits/damage. So, you want Adaptive.

 

[Valen is my name]

what about geg on the adira compared to adaptive armour on the victory?

 

[katadder]

given the choice I would prefer the victorys AA and interceptors over a GEG3. which is probably why i rate the vic as the best of the armageddon ships.