Shadizar Boxed Set Map?

[UncleBear]

First, thank you Matt & Co. for jumping in and working to fix this as soon as you found out. I join the other voices who don't hold Mongoose responsible for being ripped off by an unscrupulous artist.

What I want to know is, who is this person? Is there are cartography credit in the Shadizar books? Are they a newcomer, or someone who's been around a while -- if the latter, we might want to start looking at other products they've worked on.

I appreciate Steve Conan Trustum's decorum by requesting his identity via PM, and Mongoose's inevitable desires to avoid countersuits for defamation, but this type of person deserves to be outed publically so that all publishers large and small know to avoid him (or her).

 

[The King]

I agree. A public blame is hard but this guy not only swindled Mongoose but he also spoiled the joy of all Conan fans.
On the scaffold!

 

[UncleBear]

I agree. A public blame is hard but this guy not only swindled Mongoose but he also spoiled the joy of all Conan fans.

And WotC, don't forget that. It was their IP he stole and attempted to pass off as his own work.

 

[Kevin]

I think before any public hanging of the artist we should let Mongoose finish investigating what happened. Yeah, I'm hard pressed to consider what excuse there might be (having looked at both maps). However, since the guy's career is on the line, I don't think it matters if people wait for a few days before mentioning his name.

And after all, it is a weekend.

 

[UncleBear]

I'm okay with fact-checking first and making sure we hang the right person. :wink:

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, a new meaning for the term 'con artist'...

My faith in the goodness of human nature has been restored!

The Auld Grump, sad to say my general reaction to this fiasco is amusement... do you think I'm getting cynical?

 

[Horishijin]

This actually brings to mind something I felt before this scandal was revealed. In most campaign city settings, the map of the city is a central feature; with at least some number of keyed locations described in the text of the various books which form the body of the product. When I first started digging into the boxed set, the map felt completely disconnected, an afterthought, since it was not at all referenced by any of the three books.

Mongoose may be trying to do things differently, but I like to have a city map keyed to at least some important locations. I know that it is a very old formula, but I am a pretty old gamer, and it still works for me.

It was my chief complaint concerning the boxed set, and it is now clear why this happened; the writers were not concerned with maps.

My other complaint is that there is, to my mind, a lot of unnecessary fill. I feel like the page count was padded by only semi-useful material, like stat blocks for things like dancing girls and craftsmen of varying expertise, when that space could have been used for writing with more creativity and substance.

 

[Arkobla Conn]

My other complaint is that there is, to my mind, a lot of unnecessary fill. I feel like the page count was padded by only semi-useful material, like stat blocks for things like dancing girls and craftsmen of varying expertise, when that space could have been used for writing with more creativity and substance.

I actually disagree here. I absolutely love all the stats for different types of folks, especially progressing them through low mid and high levels. I think I would have liked 4 columns - 1st, 4th, 7th & 10th, but I can make due I think this was one of the strongest points of the boxed set and it makes me wish the previous products had something similiar...

 

[Horishijin]

I actually disagree here. I absolutely love all the stats for different types of folks, especially progressing them through low mid and high levels. I think I would have liked 4 columns - 1st, 4th, 7th & 10th, but I can make due I think this was one of the strongest points of the boxed set and it makes me wish the previous products had something similiar...

Obviously I disagree. Advancing merchants, dancing women, or any other NPC is easy enough for a competent GM to do, certainly when writing an adventure in advance, and in many cases even on the fly in the middle of a game. It is essentially arithmetic, and I would have liked to have seen the space used for something less rote.

On my first point, I am still a little stunned by this. How can writers and project managers not even be concerned about an actual map of the city? Doesn't writing a city setting; especially a product intended to be as impressive as a boxed set, necessarily include referencing some sort of map by all involved in the project? Why was it decided (and it had to be..) not to include anything like a keyed map of the city?

 

[Strom]

Hi guys,

Well, you can imagine my feelings towards the artist - heads are going to roll. . .

Onto more jolly matters, we are commissioning a new Shadizar map. I'll make an announcement when it is ready and you will either be able to download it or send in your old map and we'll post you a brand spanking new one

Oh, and BTW, there is water in Shadizar

There's your answer Strom.

Yes I read that - but there are two options mentioned. Sending in for the new map would be agreeable to me. Downloading a new map is not as appealing. Thus, my comment on "more information". But thanks for the heads up.

 

[trancejeremy]

This actually brings to mind something I felt before this scandal was revealed. In most campaign city settings, the map of the city is a central feature; with at least some number of keyed locations described in the text of the various books which form the body of the product. When I first started digging into the boxed set, the map felt completely disconnected, an afterthought, since it was not at all referenced by any of the three books.

Mongoose may be trying to do things differently, but I like to have a city map keyed to at least some important locations. I know that it is a very old formula, but I am a pretty old gamer, and it still works for me.

Yeah, that's the weird thing. I am not a professional writer or artist, but am a long time DM, and whenever I make up a city/village, I generally draw a crude sketch/map first. I always assumed most people did the same thing, and that this was generally given to the artist as the basis for his work.

If nothing else, it's easier to keep track of things you are writing that way.

Heck, REH did it with Hyboria to begin with.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

Wow, its amazing where a complaint about a map will take you...

We all have special abilities...The King’s is to take threads off-topic! :lol: ...

I'am not off-thread, I just took a thread from Matt ("heads will roll") and developed it.
In fact I'am much surprised because I think the typical death penalty in Great Britain was applied by hanging. :wink:

King, do you ever end up arguing with signposts?
Can we agree on impalement for "the artist formerly known as employed?"
And yes, we hanged them, though there were some heretics (not witches - they were hanged) burnt in Tudor times.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Stoning and pressing were common as well. And in fact stoning is the Biblical punishment for witchcraft....

The Auld Grump, though pressing was used sometimes as a means to force confessions...

 

[The King]

What about boiling or burying alive?

 

[The King]

King, do you ever end up arguing with signposts?
Can we agree on impalement for "the artist formerly known as employed?"
And yes, we hanged them, though there were some heretics (not witches - they were hanged) burnt in Tudor times.

Do you mean a spear impalement a la Caligula: from the asshole throughout the body and out from the throat. Wouldn't it be a Shadizar-like penalty?

 

[Padre]

Wouldn't it be a Shadizar-like penalty?

Just because it involves buttholes?

 

[The King]

Don't you know that roasted buttholes were a Shadizar delicatessen? (and also in France - from chicken's - but I don't want to start a new argument)

I mean the guys there are so corrupt they only waste their time to invent new sorts of decadence for fear to apper old-fashioned. Shadizar is the city of sins of the Hyborian Age.

With some reflexion though, I wonder why Arenjun wasn't chosen instead of Shadizar for the boxed set because Howard gives an excellent and detailled description of the city in The Tower of the Elephant.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

Do you mean a spear impalement a la Caligula: from the asshole throughout the body and out from the throat. Wouldn't it be a Shadizar-like penalty?

Ahh, Caligula, another exaggeratedly misrepresented individual...

I'd thought more in a Vlad Tepes "stylie" (victims apparently lived longer) on a long stake but your description'll do.
BTW, final toll of "The Terror" est. at 17,000...

 

[Flashman]

You know, I've not seen many "Shadizar map sucks!" or "Shadizar has canals? WTF?" threads.

Which can only lead me to the conclusion that the vast majority of the complainers did not have any great problem with the map.

Uh, actually, I'll raise my hand here. I bought the set last Thursday and couldn't wait to get it home. Upon opening and looking at the map, I was let down. The canals seemed way too big for the city, but that was a minor complaint.

My big problem with the map is that it seems so...artificial. When I think of Shadizar, I think City of Thieves, and to me that means big and sprawling, with no rhyme or reason to the way streets are laid out because the city is also old. And did I say BIG? The box map just seemed so small with lots of space between buildings and not very many buildings at that. How's a thief supposed to skulk into a dark alleyway to escape the city guard in this place? And how many rich estates or temples can be robbed before everyone knows who to look for?

The old boxed set for the Al Qadim game had some pretty nice large city maps in it. Too bad the artist didn't steal one of them. I just hope the redo map that Mongoose puts out keeps this in mind.

On a serious note: while I don't hold Mongoose responsible for the theft (and that's what it is), it is a pretty serious matter to plagiarize. I'm currently in the middle of my legal research paper and I can't tell you how many times it has been drummed into our heads this term about the seriousness of it. It doesn't matter whether it was inadvertent or not; so from the artist's standpoint it can and should have serious repercussions for him. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but this looks pretty blatant.

 

[René]

Um, Messantia is scheduled for March now I guess it means double checking the contents of the box, but still... damn.

Aquilonia is now scheduled for March, too.