Shadizar Boxed Set Map?

[The King]

Some new beheadings? Yeah! As long as it is not my head...

By the way, why don't you use all the French Guillotine?

I seem to recall most of the recipients of that particular honour were royalty

Not only; Tens of thousands died from the guillotine. Until the coming of Napoleon, the Parliament was so divided that any leading party at the moment immediately condemned to death their adversaries for treason. That meant not only the deputies but also their supporters... Of course all of this was based on the Declaration of the Human Rights.

 

[The King]

Some new beheadings? Yeah! As long as it is not my head...

By the way, why don't you use all the French Guillotine?

I seem to recall most of the recipients of that particular honour were royalty

According to my 'Ladybird Book of Mass Purges', the guillotine was invented for chopping firewood 8)

Don't you know that the British invented a smaller guillotine for Napoleon. Alas he died before they could use it on him. It found another use anyway and it was later W. Churchill's favorite tool and it was called the cigar cutter.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

Some new beheadings? Yeah! As long as it is not my head...

By the way, why don't you use all the French Guillotine?

I seem to recall most of the recipients of that particular honour were royalty

Not only; Tens of thousands died from the guillotine. Until the coming of Napoleon, the Parliament was so divided that any leading party at the moment immediately condemned to death their adversaries for treason. That meant not only the deputies but also their supporters... Of course all of this was based on the Declaration of the Human Rights.

Sorry to be pedantic but... Paul Halsall "Modern History Sourcebook" says:
"...in the five months from September, 1793, to February 5, 1794, the revolutionary tribunal in Paris convicted and executed 238 men and 31 women and acquitted 190 persons..."
I think more died in summary mass-drownings in Southern France but still somewhat less than tens of thousands... and Little Noddy compared to most campaigns of terror or repression. And no, I'm not French.

 

[The King]

I seem to recall most of the recipients of that particular honour were royalty

Not only; Tens of thousands died from the guillotine. Until the coming of Napoleon, the Parliament was so divided that any leading party at the moment immediately condemned to death their adversaries for treason. That meant not only the deputies but also their supporters... Of course all of this was based on the Declaration of the Human Rights.

Sorry to be pedantic but... Paul Halsall "Modern History Sourcebook" says:
"...in the five months from September, 1793, to February 5, 1794, the revolutionary tribunal in Paris convicted and executed 238 men and 31 women and acquitted 190 persons..."
I think more died in summary mass-drownings in Southern France but still somewhat less than tens of thousands... and Little Noddy compared to most campaigns of terror or repression. And no, I'm not French.

The French revolution began in 1789, not 1793. Inbetween, many nobles were executed or had to flee (to America or to England or in the case of the king to Austria - he was discovered while travelling). Most partisans of the king (deputies) were beheaded as well as those who were too moderate. The government following the monarchy was called the Terror Regime whose most reknown leader was Robespierre and he was an adept of the 0 tolerance. He eventually lost his head too because they other deputies feared they would all die in the end if they didn't act.

The king was not executed immediately because the government feared his death would trigger a war (with Austria at least). There were long discussions between those who wanted him dead so that the monarchy would definitely be given up or those who wanted him as an hostage. In the end the Queen was also beheaded because she was so impopular and her 5-years old child was also killed.

 

[The King]

...Sorry to be pedantic but... Paul Halsall "Modern History Sourcebook" says:
"...in the five months from September, 1793, to February 5, 1794, the revolutionary tribunal in Paris convicted and executed 238 men and 31 women and acquitted 190 persons..."
I think more died in summary mass-drownings in Southern France but still somewhat less than tens of thousands... and Little Noddy compared to most campaigns of terror or repression. And no, I'm not French.

The French revolution began in 1789, not 1793. Inbetween, many nobles were executed or had to flee (to America or to England or in the case of the king to Austria - he was discovered while travelling). Most partisans of the king (deputies) were beheaded as well as those who were too moderate. The government following the monarchy was called the Terror Regime whose most reknown leader was Robespierre and he was an adept of the 0 tolerance. He eventually lost his head too because they other deputies feared they would all die in the end if they didn't act.

The king was not executed immediately because the government feared his death would trigger a war (with Austria at least). There were long discussions between those who wanted him dead so that the monarchy would definitely be given up or those who wanted him as an hostage. In the end the Queen was also beheaded because she was so impopular and her 5-years old child was also killed.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

...Sorry to be pedantic but... Paul Halsall "Modern History Sourcebook" says:
"...in the five months from September, 1793, to February 5, 1794, the revolutionary tribunal in Paris convicted and executed 238 men and 31 women and acquitted 190 persons..."
I think more died in summary mass-drownings in Southern France but still somewhat less than tens of thousands... and Little Noddy compared to most campaigns of terror or repression. And no, I'm not French.

The French revolution began in 1789, not 1793. Inbetween, many nobles were executed or had to flee (to America or to England or in the case of the king to Austria - he was discovered while travelling). Most partisans of the king (deputies) were beheaded as well as those who were too moderate. The government following the monarchy was called the Terror Regime whose most reknown leader was Robespierre and he was an adept of the 0 tolerance. He eventually lost his head too because they other deputies feared they would all die in the end if they didn't act.

The king was not executed immediately because the government feared his death would trigger a war (with Austria at least). There were long discussions between those who wanted him dead so that the monarchy would definitely be given up or those who wanted him as an hostage. In the end the Queen was also beheaded because she was so impopular and her 5-years old child was also killed.

My reference is to the so-called "Terror" when the guillotine was used en-masse to, erm, terrify the populace and political opponents - this took place between 1793 and 1794.

 

[Hollywood Hogan]

Thank you to Mongoose for stating that they will correct this error. I feel this was a con job by the artist, and do not hold Mongoose responsible for his unprofessionalism. They have done the right thing by stepping up and fixing this error. I'm still a loyal Mongoose Conan fan and will continue to purchase the Conan products.

- Hollywood

 

[Padre]

Um, Messantia is scheduled for March now I guess it means double checking the contents of the box, but still... damn.

 

[The King]

My reference is to the so-called "Terror" when the guillotine was used en-masse to, erm, terrify the populace and political opponents - this took place between 1793 and 1794.

Please read some sources that include the whole revolution, from 1789 to 1799. One can always count the dead on a 5-months period but I guess you also heard of July 14th.
This was not only limited to Paris/Versailles as the revolution touched the whole country. Many massacres were commited in villages where the population was suspected to support nobles. Of course the guillotine wasn't use for all because it was simplier and quickier to shot them down than to erect a scaffold.

I also forgot to tell that the Church was also considered the foe of the State (and was assimilated with the nobles). Many clericals had to give up their faith to keep their life.

The fact that you are not French isn't important because the British also had there share of civil war I guess.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

My reference is to the so-called "Terror" when the guillotine was used en-masse to, erm, terrify the populace and political opponents - this took place between 1793 and 1794.

Please read some sources that include the whole revolution, from 1789 to 1799. One can always count the dead on a 5-months period but I guess you also heard of July 14th.
This was not only limited to Paris/Versailles as the revolution touched the whole country. Many massacres were commited in villages where the population was suspected to support nobles. Of course the guillotine wasn't use for all because it was simplier and quickier to shot them down than to erect a scaffold.

Read 'em, which is why my quibble was with your claim that "tens of thousands" were guillotined. The reason for counting the dead in the period mentioned is because it was during that period that the guillotine was used as a weapon of terror, claiming not "tens of thousands" of victims but 269. It is also why, if you'd read my post, I went on to say more died by drowning as a form of execution in Southern France, which, I think, would imply that I am aware that the Revolution claimed a large number of victims outside of Paris. My argument was not to belittle the total number of victims during the whole Revolutionary period, merely to challenge the
continuing myth of vast numbers being guillotined.

 

[Mayhem]

Wow, its amazing where a complaint about a map will take you...

 

[Strom]

Wow, its amazing where a complaint about a map will take you...

We all have special abilities...The King’s is to take threads off-topic! :lol:

I was going to purchase the Shadizar Box set this week on Thursday's payday. Maybe by then there will be more info on what Mongoose plans for the map are. I'm not worried and know they will have things under control. I'm definitely excited - this will be my first box set purchase in a long time! 8)

 

[Tristan]

Hi guys,

Well, you can imagine my feelings towards the artist - heads are going to roll. . .

Onto more jolly matters, we are commissioning a new Shadizar map. I'll make an announcement when it is ready and you will either be able to download it or send in your old map and we'll post you a brand spanking new one

Oh, and BTW, there is water in Shadizar

There's your answer Strom.

 

[GregLynch]

PS. Cheers, Greg! I'm really looking forward to see Messantia. (what's inside the box? same stuff as in Shadizar - 3 books, cards, map, counters?).

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it as well, since it's my first Mongoose project. I hope y'all enjoy it.

 

[The King]

Read 'em, which is why my quibble was with your claim that "tens of thousands" were guillotined. The reason for counting the dead in the period mentioned is because it was during that period that the guillotine was used as a weapon of terror, claiming not "tens of thousands" of victims but 269. It is also why, if you'd read my post, I went on to say more died by drowning as a form of execution in Southern France, which, I think, would imply that I am aware that the Revolution claimed a large number of victims outside of Paris. My argument was not to belittle the total number of victims during the whole Revolutionary period, merely to challenge the
continuing myth of vast numbers being guillotined.

I can't read them. I have so many books to read that I can't see the end of it, including many Conan pastiches which I'am not especially motivated to read after my last novel called "Conan and the Death Lord of Thanza" which is one of the silliest Conan I ever read.
The fact is that I believe you for the period you mention but as I told the French revolution began in 1789 and culminated on July, 14th and lasted for 10 years during which the Terror was regularly applied.
These 10 years were the major factor for the rising of the empire with Austria and Prussia (at first) at the main ennemies. Napoleon unifed the German States to provide a buffer against Prussia.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

Wow, its amazing where a complaint about a map will take you...

We all have special abilities...The King’s is to take threads off-topic! :lol:

I was going to purchase the Shadizar Box set this week on Thursday's payday. Maybe by then there will be more info on what Mongoose plans for the map are. I'm not worried and know they will have things under control. I'm definitely excited - this will be my first box set purchase in a long time! 8)

It's worth getting anyway, especially as you know you'll get a new map.

 

[The King]

Wow, its amazing where a complaint about a map will take you...

We all have special abilities...The King’s is to take threads off-topic! :lol: ...

I'am not off-thread, I just took a thread from Matt ("heads will roll") and developed it.
In fact I'am much surprised because I think the typical death penalty in Great Britain was applied by hanging. So I was surprised that Matt wanted to punish the map artist with a French method.
Of course I would have better understood if he would have promised to make him swallow his fake maps with fresh inks. :roll:
You know, as the King, I wanted to preserve my head and don't want to figure as collateral damage. :wink:

 

[The King]

It's worth getting anyway, especially as you know you'll get a new map.

Perhaps we will get also an especially designed execution plazza integrated in the new map.
This city is rife with thieves and bandits and cut-throats, etc. I can well imagine a new class for the game: the executioner.
Now the question is: how do they apply the death penalty there?

 

[ssspaladin]

Hi Guys:
Yes indeed, this was the map of Eltabbar from the old Spellbound boxed set from TSR. I know this because I wrote that product (somewhere around 200 years ago, if I recall correctly) and sketched this map on 1/4 inch quadrille paper, after which TSR's fine cartography department turned my sketch into the map in question.

I was actually kind of flattered to see it as a free download and now, needless to say, I'm pretty amused to see it embroiled in the current controversy. I wrote it a long time ago, so I don't remember the exact story about the canal-rune, but I think it was to keep some big bad demon thing or other imprisoned beneath the city. In any event, don't be too hard on Mongoose -- it sounds as if their artist pulled a fast one and there's no way that they can be aware of every single fantasy map ever created in the past three decades. My only issue is that obviously Shadizar is nowhere near as neat and tidy as the (lawful evil) city that I designed was. I hope that the replacement map will meet everyone's expectations. And no hard feelings, Mongoose -- these things will happen.

thanks all,
Anthony Pryor
writer, designer, editor, developer, etc.

 

[Padre]

So, it's not a matter of recycling one's own work, but stealing it from somebody else. It's hard to believe that this "artist" thought he'd get away with this (especially in RPG community, where no product is forgotten and people don't just throw old maps away ). Well, it's not Mongoose's fault - you make an idiot-proof system of ensuring you don't get stolen maps and then... somebody makes a better idiot.