Brass Jester
Mongoose
Maybe L.S.d.C edited the map :lol:
sbarrie
Mongoose
mthomason said:This product will most likely never see print again containing this map. What you now have in your possession is one of those items that in a few years will sell on eBay for twice it's purchase price in rarity value
RARE CONAN BOXED SET WITH FORGOTTEN REALMS CITY MAP!
The "Big Map" is the centerpiece of a boxed set. I don't blame people for feeling screwed, but I'm it'll be fixed eventually.
/heck, the artist could have sent the correct map to Mongoose, and someone at Mongoose could have sent the wrong file to the printer... :| I'm sure somebody's holding a meeting in the Mongoose Manor to plan what to do next.
Steve Conan Trustrum said:
*** SPECULATION WARNING ***
I can forsee a problem here... The name of the artist on the map is the name of someone who has worked on RPG cartography extensively for a few years. There's a pretty good chance that the guy who did the map for Mongoose just used this name to get the work and then sent in the copy. I would not like to assume that the guy who did this "work" for Mongoose is the same guy whose name is on it.
*** END SPECULATION WARNING ***
sbarrie said:
LOL
Actually even better. Forgotten Realms City Map with the grassland edited to sand and Shadizar labelling stuck all over it. They didn't simply throw the original file to Mongoose, they at least made an attempt to make it look a little authentic. The building outlines have been edited somewhat, too.
However, editing the canal to a dried-out river bed might have been a good touch
Steve Conan Trustrum
Mongoose
Unlikely because a warning bell would go off when it came time to put a name on the check, and that's assuming Mongoose has had no previous dealings with the artist.mthomason said:
Steve Conan Trustrum said:
He could potentially ask for a business name rather than an individual on the check (easy enough to go to the bank and open a business account); or payment in product, or possibly even over Paypal or something like that (although I'm not aware of Mongoose offering the latter as an option, it's a common method for paying freelancers internationally). I'm just having problems seeing why someone with a decent work history would do something like this, and wouldn't like to think that a potentially innocent guy is suddenly landed with a huge minus on his popularity attribute without checking into things properly first.
It's also possible he's done similar jobs in the recent past for Mongoose, but using less-popular work that nobody noticed was copied...
I'm guessing after this particular incident, this guy will be traced and his identity established properly. I just hope there's an official statement made somewhere as to his identity.
However, I understand fully (and share) your wish to avoid getting caught in the same situation.
Odovacar's Ghost
Mongoose
This is so petty, and stupid. I can't believe there are some people who are whining and moaning about a stupid map. Or bitch about spending $40 and scream that the map isn't Shadizar. Who cares! Did you spend $40 for the stupid MAP? I know I didn't. I bought it for the material. Maps, in my opinion are just fillers, one look and either pitch it or move it to the map box.
This reminds me of the time people were complaining over the main Conan book. I still own the main book. I never once complained about it. Nor have I edited the book. It was, in my opinion, $50 well spent.
I wonder, back in the old days of DnD 1st edition. Back when TSR first made Deities and Demi Gods. Maybe some of you old timers remember this. They had Cthulu and Melibonne (never could spell it, that albino with that kick ass sword). Anyway, I wonder if people got pissed off because they put two copyrighted mythos in the book. Yes, TSR, did correct it, by rereleasing the book without the two Mythos. But, I wonder if people who complained about a stupid map, would also complain about two copyrighted Mythos'.
Excuse any bad spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure.
This reminds me of the time people were complaining over the main Conan book. I still own the main book. I never once complained about it. Nor have I edited the book. It was, in my opinion, $50 well spent.
I wonder, back in the old days of DnD 1st edition. Back when TSR first made Deities and Demi Gods. Maybe some of you old timers remember this. They had Cthulu and Melibonne (never could spell it, that albino with that kick ass sword). Anyway, I wonder if people got pissed off because they put two copyrighted mythos in the book. Yes, TSR, did correct it, by rereleasing the book without the two Mythos. But, I wonder if people who complained about a stupid map, would also complain about two copyrighted Mythos'.
Excuse any bad spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure.
sbarrie
Mongoose
I thought people were upset when they received two fewer pantheons after the first printing of Deities and Demigods. :shrug
Anyway, the main map is a boxed set's centerpiece. Not the most useful item, but definitely the prettiest. Who'd want a boxed campaign without one?
/Son of Cimmeria, still uses 1st printing of the rulebook.
Anyway, the main map is a boxed set's centerpiece. Not the most useful item, but definitely the prettiest. Who'd want a boxed campaign without one?
/Son of Cimmeria, still uses 1st printing of the rulebook.
Odovacar's Ghost
Mongoose
sbarrie said:
I actually own both Deities and Demigods books.
I'm not a Son of Cimmeria, cause I didn't want to cut the corner off a page.
Maps may be located in the center of the box set, but once again, IMHO, they are not really required. Except maybe to throw darts at.
Steve Conan Trustrum
Mongoose
Most artists who do work under such titles make no secret of such names (meaning the art director would wonder why the name on the check, business or not, still doesn't line up.) I think many people underestimate just how small the work force in this industry is thus how hard it is to sneak such things past an established publisher.mthomason said:
Also, it isn't unheard of for artists and writers to try underhanded stuff, no matter how well known they are. Last year, a well-knonw artist who frequented RPG.net's freelancer forum got busted copying and manipulating other artists' works to pass off as his own, for example.
Put simply, when something like this happens the conspiracy answer is usually the least likely scenario, even if it is possible.
Bladerunner
Mongoose
I suppose if the map has locations and numbers on it to denounce such sites..If the map is wrong the locations would also be wrong.
For example when Lankmar box set came out for AD&D and Waterdeep if the the maps were wrong and the locations wrong would a person not be upset.
You lay the map out for the players to help them visualize the city and it is the wrong city. The descriptions in the box set don't match..I can see how ppl are p.o. ed.
Just like a world map you use it as a guide to locations and places.. So don't tell me maps don't matter. If a dungeon crawl or adventure had no map you would be ticked off as well.
It is crappy the artist did this but then again editors should have reviewed the copy and overseen the project. Nothing they could have done for the ripped off map I agree, but with no canals in the description and a map with canals would be like making Waterdeep a landlocked port with no water.
I am sure they will fix the problem at mongoose though. They might even post a new map on the site..who knows.
For example when Lankmar box set came out for AD&D and Waterdeep if the the maps were wrong and the locations wrong would a person not be upset.
You lay the map out for the players to help them visualize the city and it is the wrong city. The descriptions in the box set don't match..I can see how ppl are p.o. ed.
Just like a world map you use it as a guide to locations and places.. So don't tell me maps don't matter. If a dungeon crawl or adventure had no map you would be ticked off as well.
It is crappy the artist did this but then again editors should have reviewed the copy and overseen the project. Nothing they could have done for the ripped off map I agree, but with no canals in the description and a map with canals would be like making Waterdeep a landlocked port with no water.
I am sure they will fix the problem at mongoose though. They might even post a new map on the site..who knows.
Bladerunner
Mongoose
http://www.conan.ch/dos_game/shadizar.jpg
This is a website with the old dos game map of Shadizar.
hopefully this helps..This is what I was using before the boxed set
This is a website with the old dos game map of Shadizar.
hopefully this helps..This is what I was using before the boxed set
Now that this problem has been identified what is going to be the impact on production? I ordered a copy of Shadizar through Amazon who haven't sent it and have no delivery estimate. Would they have received copies with the canal map or will they soon? Or will production stop for a while and Amazon will be waiting a couple of months before they get a copy?
Speaking of Amazon I couldn't find a reference to the Messentia box set.
Speaking of Amazon I couldn't find a reference to the Messentia box set.
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
I must admit, I'm not riled up, but I'm not happy either. I noticed the map, thought I had seen it before but couldn't place it, and thought it 'didn't look much like the shadizar I had envisioned.' I was too busy in my personal life to really get worked up about it though.
I would like a correction, if possible. The link provided by bladerunner is a far better map for shadizar than the one provided.
I would like a correction, if possible. The link provided by bladerunner is a far better map for shadizar than the one provided.
Strangely enough, it sounds like this situation is very similar to one going on in the sports world right now. A sports writer for the Worcester, Mass., newspaper just got fired for cribbing a column from an online source. This writer had 20 years of experience and who did he decide to steal from? Some nobody online? No! He swipes a column almost word-for-word from probably Sports Illustrated's most well-known American football columnist.
A dedicated plagiarist is almost always able to sneak something by an unsuspecting and trusting editor. There really isn't much of a defense for it until their own hubris does them in. In the newspaper case, the jerk finally bit off a chunk from someone recognizable enough that people finally noticed.
A dedicated plagiarist is almost always able to sneak something by an unsuspecting and trusting editor. There really isn't much of a defense for it until their own hubris does them in. In the newspaper case, the jerk finally bit off a chunk from someone recognizable enough that people finally noticed.
Oh, and on a personal note, Vincent is a friend of mine and I am really sad that what should be a moment of glowing accomplishment for him has turned into this mess, whoever is responsible for it.
There is a ton of useful and entertaining Conan gaming material in the Shadizar box, even if the map is hosed.
There is a ton of useful and entertaining Conan gaming material in the Shadizar box, even if the map is hosed.
