Shadizar Boxed Set Map?

[Tristan]

This sucks, but things like this happen, right?

All I really want to know at this point is if the map will be fixed in a newer edition at some point, since I'd much rather have a real Shadizar map and the set is arriving at my local store tomorrow.

I wanted to pick it up ASAP but....I'd wait if a version with a fixed map was in the works.

 

[The Warlord]

Wow!!

My copy came in the mail today, and only had the chance to flip through it before hitting a social engagement. I saw the canals on the map, but didn't think too much on it as after Vincent's magnificent AtTR, I knew there was some good flavour to be read.

This news is just crazy. I place no blame on Vincent, what-so-ever. I do place some on Mongoose however. The main crime from where I sit, is that this is the second hiccup in the best RPG line going. I love the Conan universe and have been ecstatic over Mongoose's take on the game. I've gotten no less than 5 other players to buy into the system. It was bad enough to have to clear up the confusion on the corebook. I hate the matter that we've got another 'faulty' product on our hands. I worry the reputation this game'll get. Not only may it keep potential buyers away, but those of us that stick around, may decide to not buy 'initial runs' and wait a few weeks to see if the purchase is 'legit'.

IMO, an incorrect map in a box set about a fictional city is a huge error. The city map gives us referance points to all the juicy spots we read about in the text. It is also nice to throw down a nice map on the table, it just feels good as a GM

I was very pleased with Mongoose's handling of the AE book and the SoC program. I would be satisfied mailing this map back to Mongoose in exchange for a new 'correct' one.

 

[Arkobla Conn]

Agreed!! No slight to Vincent here at all!

I'm running the Shadizar adventure next week regardless of the map. We'll just run with it and not worry too much right now.

 

[FuryMaster]

This is quite a disappointing event. I love what Mongoose has done with Conan and as a proud owner of the first printing of the Core book, I have had little to complain about. Errors are expected, there isn't a product out there without them....they get fixed in new editions or in erratta posted on websites or new products.

Messing up a poster map of the featured city of a boxed set however is quite sad. I can't believe we got a Forgotten Realms map instead of a legitimate, creative map of Shadizar. My copy should be arriving tomorrow, but now I will be distracted from the fine books in the box because I have a stupid faulty map in it. I look at that map on WotC site and wonder how anyone could have let that past as Shadizar. The same care should be given to maps as the writing in the books...maps aren't just art work they are important reference points and are used...we aren't just talking about pretty pictures here.

Anyway, a trade, this map for a new, real map of Shadizar would be a good solution. Hopefully Mongoose can make the artist buy back all his maps and pay for the creation, production, and distribution of new ones.

 

[Anonymous]

Feeling "ripped off" is a bit over the top, isn't it? Last time I looked there was considerably more in the box than a single map!


Dude, I paid $40.00! and I was expecting a cool poster map. They re-packaged some freeware junk and passed it off as new!

There are plenty of RPG companies that are just falling over themselves to get my $40.00 and provide me with original content.!

Can't you read a post? Old Bear told you what the score is. They've been deceived by the artist, so it's his fault, not theirs, unles you know of a mythical Maps R Us site that archives every map ever drawn for easy checking. Get a grip, chill out and wait on the Mongoose guys sorting things out with WoTC. Next people will be putting them in the frame for whacking Kennedy.

 

[Anonymous]

But the text as written by Vincent does not mention any canals.

I'm betting the text as written by Vincent don't mention the sky either, but it still probably has some. You never heard of aesthetics? More to the point, you tell me where exactly it says they can't have a canal, pond, stream, jacuzzi or whatever else they want.

The answer is it doesn't. If the artist hadn't stolen another piece and passed it off as his own this would NEVER have happened. People would have gone 'ooh, this is cool, an interesting canal/water sytem to liven up my adventures', same as they do with any other gaming map that doesn't have some other sort of issue attached.

 

[Anonymous]

Just because Vincent doesnt say there are canals in the city, doesnt mean that the person putting it all together knows that there arent. (And also, just because he doesnt SAY there are no canals, doesnt mean there arent, after all, it probably doesnt say there are wells in the city for water, that doesnt mean they arent there) Not everyone is an expert in an age that never existed. So whoever put it together did so with the faith the ARTIST had submitted the correct map with the correct specifications he was given, he took a look at the map, saw that it looked fine and didnt know enough about the minutiae of Conans world to know any different.

I completely disagree with this. It is very clear that a lot of research went into the Conan game. A group of people cleary read all the REH material, the pastiches and comics and whatever and used all these sources do design a game and the world the game takes place in. Vincent clearly does a lot of research in his books. It only makes sense that the people who do all the research and writing would communicate to the artist what the city should look like. I would hope it would be detailed enough to include specific important locations. The idea that the author/researcher would not be given the map to approve or dissapprove before printing makes zero sense to me. I have no interest in buying products that are created through this sort of system.

Are you for real? Do you work in publishing, or are you just another know-all amateur who thinks he knows it all?

 

[Anonymous]

Writer's don't generally see the map (or any final art, for that matter) before a product sees print. In fact, it's incredibly rare for a writer to have any say in the art in any way, shape or form. That's what are directors and/or line editors are for.

It may well turn out that someone at Mongoose dropped the ball here, but in NO way should that ball fall at Vincent's feet.

I don't blame Vincent for this at all. I'm sure he did exactly what Mongoose hired him to do.
I admit I don't know much about how RPG books are produced, but there has to be some distinction between maps and other kind of art. I 100% agree that this is a scummy thing for the artist to do. But if this is how the process works aren't mistakes like this bound to happen in the future?

The guy will have signed a contract at some point. That's what contracts are for and how the system works. like everything else, it's open to abuse by the dishonest. You can stop this as easily as gun crime...

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.conan.ch/dos_game/shadizar.jpg

This is a website with the old dos game map of Shadizar.
hopefully this helps..This is what I was using before the boxed set

Well that's about as generic as they come. I'd rather have an interesting water system - providing the goddammed artists didn't steal it from somewhere else.

 

[Anonymous]

I must admit, I'm not riled up, but I'm not happy either. I noticed the map, thought I had seen it before but couldn't place it, and thought it 'didn't look much like the shadizar I had envisioned.' I was too busy in my personal life to really get worked up about it though.

I would like a correction, if possible. The link provided by bladerunner is a far better map for shadizar than the one provided.

It's a far better map for anywhere. NOT! It's a square, for god's sake! My kids can do that at home. This would be a non-issue if it wasn't for the artist.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow!!

My copy came in the mail today, and only had the chance to flip through it before hitting a social engagement. I saw the canals on the map, but didn't think too much on it as after Vincent's magnificent AtTR, I knew there was some good flavour to be read.

This news is just crazy. I place no blame on Vincent, what-so-ever. I do place some on Mongoose however. The main crime from where I sit, is that this is the second hiccup in the best RPG line going. I love the Conan universe and have been ecstatic over Mongoose's take on the game. I've gotten no less than 5 other players to buy into the system. It was bad enough to have to clear up the confusion on the corebook. I hate the matter that we've got another 'faulty' product on our hands. I worry the reputation this game'll get. Not only may it keep potential buyers away, but those of us that stick around, may decide to not buy 'initial runs' and wait a few weeks to see if the purchase is 'legit'.

IMO, an incorrect map in a box set about a fictional city is a huge error. The city map gives us referance points to all the juicy spots we read about in the text. It is also nice to throw down a nice map on the table, it just feels good as a GM

I was very pleased with Mongoose's handling of the AE book and the SoC program. I would be satisfied mailing this map back to Mongoose in exchange for a new 'correct' one.

Gah! It's not an incorrect map, it's a STOLEN map! How hard is this for everybody to get? Mongoose have been stiffed by a freelance employee who they trusted and who did great work on the main Hyboria maps and the Lone Wolf stuff. Why on earth wouldn't they trust him? He didn't have atrack record for this, or do you think they employ a psychic to look out for stuff like this.

Judging by Bear's request a while back for map makers these people don't grow on trees...

 

[Anonymous]

There, now I take a day off work and spend half of it posting about my hobby when I should be doing other things. See what you made me do? I am so blaming Old Bear, Matt and the Mongoose team when my partner gets home and I haven't put up the shelving unit.

 

[mthomason]

Hopefully Mongoose can make the artist buy back all his maps and pay for the creation, production, and distribution of new ones.

Quite likely he had a standard damages clause in his contract protecting Mongoose against IP theft (which, for those wondering, is why you usually trust a freelancer and don't waste time checking every product in existance to see if they've plaguarised anything - you assume they're not stupid enough to risk being sued over it). If this is so (and I'd be very surprised if it isn't), he'll have to cover all legal costs, damages, and quite possibly any other associated costs involved in this... in other words he'll have to work flat out for the next year (if anyone will even hire him now) just to pay the bill.

 

[The King]

I suggest the following for the next sourcebooks/boxed sets: the writer draws the maps he describes in a rough sketch (but I think that Vincent can do even better than that, considering his artworks on his site) and sends it to the map cartographer for the final production.
Thus we know that the maps will match the description exactly.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Well, you can imagine my feelings towards the artist - heads are going to roll. . .

Onto more jolly matters, we are commissioning a new Shadizar map. I'll make an announcement when it is ready and you will either be able to download it or send in your old map and we'll post you a brand spanking new one

Oh, and BTW, there is water in Shadizar

 

[The King]

I feel ripped off, you can download the same city map for free from the Wizards of the Coast website! What gives? :x

You should get some free stuff to be the one responsible for the discorevy of this fake map. :wink:
If you hadn't tell anything, perhaps this fact would have stayed unnoticed...

Still this canal is too large. Considering the reputation of the city and of its inhabitants, I doubt this would clear water. Just imagine the smell of decomposition because of the trash thrown in it.

 

[RabidAntiShemite]

That is no less than I expected from you guys. Way to step up. I can't wait to see the new map. Keep us informed as to when we can expect it.

RAS

 

[Paluka]

Hi guys,

Well, you can imagine my feelings towards the artist - heads are going to roll. . .

Onto more jolly matters, we are commissioning a new Shadizar map. I'll make an announcement when it is ready and you will either be able to download it or send in your old map and we'll post you a brand spanking new one

Oh, and BTW, there is water in Shadizar

This is good news and was expected. Thanks.

 

[Paluka]

Are you for real? Do you work in publishing, or are you just another know-all amateur who thinks he knows it all?

I'm actually pretty important in the publishing industry. I'm a customer.

 

[The Warlord]

Gah! It's not an incorrect map, it's a STOLEN map! How hard is this for everybody to get? Mongoose have been stiffed by a freelance employee who they trusted and who did great work on the main Hyboria maps and the Lone Wolf stuff. Why on earth wouldn't they trust him? He didn't have atrack record for this, or do you think they employ a psychic to look out for stuff like this.

Stolen/Incorrect, the point is we DON'T have a map of Shadizar, which was what was advertised and part of the sale. I understand it's the hack artist's fault, but Mongoose has to have some quality control. Maybe scan the map for the writer to glimpse before going to production. I dunno.

I'm glad a new map is forthcoming. For the record, I'd rather mail away for a nice, large, quality new one, then have to print a map out.

(this was gonna get caught sooner or later, I mean on the Zamora map there's next to no water in/around shadizar)