Second Glorantha Preview

[Archer]

Especially since RQ had elves in the past, and now they are gone, replaced with mini-ents.

Well, not to nit-pick, but wouldn't the past editions of elves actually be in the future? Maybe they evolve. :lol:

LOL, perhaps they do....

Still, they could looked basically elf-like and still be plants. Pictures of such gloranthan elves has been posted in links on this very forum.

 

[homerjsinnott]

I started that discussion, and I never got the answer I believed was right.
Now that the "elves" have been verified to be walking trees, I definetly say they should be called ents, if you are not to use unique names at all.

Edited for the truth.

Edited for your point of view, not the truth. It is always easier to call someone names, belittle them, or make fun of them, rather than to meet their arguments, when you find yourself running out of good arguments to meet them with. So please, dont. Let us continue to keep the discussion civil.

The fact remains, all the reasons I got why the elves should look like trees, and still be called elves, seemed hollow. Especially since RQ had elves in the past, and now they are gone, replaced with mini-ents.
The only reason to call the mini-ents elves, seem to be because adryami in the past were true elves in apperance (and in the meaning of the word as used in modern fantasy litterature), and changing the name now (the name the humans use), would turn away some RQ players.

Give me a fact, showing where the meaning of the word elf refers to being that looks like a walking tree, and I will accept that as a good argument for the current aldryami to be called elves.
In fact, there is a stronger case for using the word elf to describe a short stocky human with a beard (dwarf), since they have been somewhat interchangable throughout mythology (especially in the Eddan). But then, that would go against what the word "elf" and "dwarf" has come to mean in modern fantasy litterature, and would go against the imagery that is now associated with each of those two words.

Sure, as someone said, RQ is make belief. But so are all RPGs, including Talislanta. And you can ask yourself and other Talislanta players (other than me), why that game has not gained a greater following with it's very non-standard races.

The topic was discussed for a long period of time and many people including myself disagreed with you for very good reasons, but you refuse to accept that yours isn't the one true way.

And to be honest your continual harping on the subject bores me, and from what I can see, (I may be wrong) some others too.

If you want to continually dissect the topic just go back and read the original thread over and over, I'm sure it will give you just as much pleasure or frustration, which ever you prefer.

I'm sure you won't let this go unanswered, but I would like to talk about something else.

Will the book have much detail on Palmalt? the God Learners had a massive influence there.

 

[Archer]

The topic was discussed for a long period of time and many people including myself disagreed with you for very good reasons, but you refuse to accept that yours isn't the one true way.

An contraire (or how that is spelled) my friend. I accept that there are other ways. I just disagree about the current way things are done are a good way.

And to be honest your continual harping on the subject bores me, and from what I can see, (I may be wrong) some others too.

Fair enough, lets move on to something more intresting.

If you want to continually dissect the topic just go back and read the original thread over and over, I'm sure it will give you just as much pleasure or frustration, which ever you prefer.

Sorry, it wont. :lol:

I'm sure you won't let this go unanswered, but I would like to talk about something else.

You got that right, everytime the word elf is mentioned, I probably be there with my opinion on the subject. :wink:

If we all just accepted things as they are, and praised them to the skies instead of giving opinions on what we do not like as well as what we like, game developers do not get any valuable feedback for future reference.

As for talking about something else, I am all for that.

 

[homerjsinnott]

The topic was discussed for a long period of time and many people including myself disagreed with you for very good reasons, but you refuse to accept that yours isn't the one true way.

An contraire (or how that is spelled) my friend. I accept that there are other ways. I just disagree about the current way things are done are a good way.

And to be honest your continual harping on the subject bores me, and from what I can see, (I may be wrong) some others too.

Fair enough, lets move on to something more intresting.

If you want to continually dissect the topic just go back and read the original thread over and over, I'm sure it will give you just as much pleasure or frustration, which ever you prefer.

Sorry, it wont. :lol:

I'm sure you won't let this go unanswered, but I would like to talk about something else.

You got that right, everytime the word elf is mentioned, I probably be there with my opinion on the subject. :wink:

If we all just accepted things as they are, and praised them to the skies instead of giving opinions on what we do not like as well as what we like, game developers do not get any valuable feedback for future reference.

As for talking about something else, I am all for that.

Fair enough.

 

[Lord Twig]

Just want to reply to some comments.

I have already stated that I will just ignore the picture and play Aldryami the way I want to. I know that it will not be a problem for my group either. We have enough imagination to picture things however we want. My point was that this will not sell books, it will discourage sales. I am not saying MRQ will not sell because of it, I am just saying that it won't sell as well. This is pure opinion at this point as I do not have any statistics to back me up, just anecdotal evidence at best.

As for MRQ itself. I am very optimistic about it right now. So far I have liked everything I have seen or am at least willing to give it a try to see how it plays out. I never expected to like everything they did. The only way that would happen would be if I made the game myself, and I don't have the time.

Here is something else to consider. Since core MRQ is going to be used in different settings, I wonder what races they have in the core rules? Do they have more traditional Elves, Dwarves, Trolls etc. in the core rules with the alien Aldryami and Uz Trolls only being presented in the Gloranthan material?

In my opinion that would be a good move on Mongoose's part as that way they could cater to people on both sides of the fence.

 

[andakitty]

I sympathize with Lord Twig. I think that 'elf' is butt-ugly and mean looking. Maybe this is a good thing, though. Sometimes it's hard to get a player to play a human, you know?

Also I sort of think the core rulebook might be geared to more generic types, leaving Glorantha versions for later. I mean, the dragon and dwarf in the preview look pretty generic. Somebody posted right after that preview came out that the dragon looked to weak to be a Glorantha dragon and too strong to be a RQ2 dream dragon.

 

[Archer]

Just want to reply to some comments.

I have already stated that I will just ignore the picture and play Aldryami the way I want to. I know that it will not be a problem for my group either. We have enough imagination to picture things however we want. My point was that this will not sell books, it will discourage sales. I am not saying MRQ will not sell because of it, I am just saying that it won't sell as well. This is pure opinion at this point as I do not have any statistics to back me up, just anecdotal evidence at best.

I totally get what you mean.
But as it bores some people, let us leave it at that.

As for MRQ itself. I am very optimistic about it right now. So far I have liked everything I have seen or am at least willing to give it a try to see how it plays out. I never expected to like everything they did. The only way that would happen would be if I made the game myself, and I don't have the time.

Yep, I am so looking forward to have an open game system myself, one that is not too far away from Basic Role-playing, and which is _not_ d20.
I really hope that we will see a plethoria of settings for it. I wish it would be the next big thing, but that might be too much to wish for.
I never expected to like everything they did with the rules, instead it seems it is the Glorantha setting that gets me this time.
These are the reasons (the setting being only a small reason though) why I am redirecting my previous settings that was aimed to use the d20 system, to now use RQ when they are published.

Here is something else to consider. Since core MRQ is going to be used in different settings, I wonder what races they have in the core rules? Do they have more traditional Elves, Dwarves, Trolls etc. in the core rules with the alien Aldryami and Uz Trolls only being presented in the Gloranthan material?

In my opinion that would be a good move on Mongoose's part as that way they could cater to people on both sides of the fence.

I wonder this too. And I hope they go for the generic description in the core rule, and adds the Glorantha specific flavor in the Glorantha books.
I think, just as you do, this is the way to go with a system that is going to be an OGL game.

 

[RMS]

Here is something else to consider. Since core MRQ is going to be used in different settings, I wonder what races they have in the core rules? Do they have more traditional Elves, Dwarves, Trolls etc. in the core rules with the alien Aldryami and Uz Trolls only being presented in the Gloranthan material?

In my opinion that would be a good move on Mongoose's part as that way they could cater to people on both sides of the fence.

I snipped the first part, but I don't believe the "ent-like" elf will affect anything at all. Many people will do what you mentioned and just run it with traditional elves. Others will be drawn into Glorantha because they enjoy having the more alien races of the world, than traditional fantasy fare.

As to the core book, in RQ3 the core books had stats that worked for either traditional D&Desque elves or for Gloranthan elves. (Same with dwarves.) Mechanically, they work exactly the same. The difference is in non-gaming things like cultures, religion, views on other sapients, etc. Those are all part of the world that is Glorantha, but don't really affect a short writeup in a core book much, if any.

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

The fact remains, all the reasons I got why the elves should look like trees, and still be called elves, seemed hollow. Especially since RQ had elves in the past, and now they are gone, replaced with mini-ents.

Gloranthan elves have always been stated to be sapient mobile plants.

Sure, as someone said, RQ is make belief. But so are all RPGs, including Talislanta. And you can ask yourself and other Talislanta players (other than me), why that game has not gained a greater following with it's very non-standard races.

Glorantha already has a strong fan following; Heroquest sales are doing quit well.

Mark Mohrfield

 

[Archer]

The fact remains, all the reasons I got why the elves should look like trees, and still be called elves, seemed hollow. Especially since RQ had elves in the past, and now they are gone, replaced with mini-ents.

Gloranthan elves have always been stated to be sapient mobile plants.

I know, I do not complain about them being plants. I complain about them looking nothing like elves. In the past they still looked like elves.
They could be made out of rubber or stone, for all I care, as long as they look as elves when they are called elves.

Sure, as someone said, RQ is make belief. But so are all RPGs, including Talislanta. And you can ask yourself and other Talislanta players (other than me), why that game has not gained a greater following with it's very non-standard races.

Glorantha already has a strong fan following; Heroquest sales are doing quit well.

Mark Mohrfield

Compared to D&D? compared to WFRP? I think you will find them rather small. But then, official numbers will not be available, so we wont know for sure, exactly how big the difference is.
All I know is that you start discussing RPGs with different players, these days, Glorantha and Talislanta are not two settings that often enter into the discussions.
Middle Earth (*groan*) and the different D&D settings, as well as the Warhammer world, and several more traditional settings, on the other hand do.

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

Gloranthan elves have always been stated to be sapient mobile plants.

I know, I do not complain about them being plants. I complain about them looking nothing like elves. In the past they still looked like elves.
They could be made out of rubber or stone, for all I care, as long as they look as elves when they are called elves.

Uh, you know what elves, Gloranthan or otherwise, look like?

Glorantha already has a strong fan following; Heroquest sales are doing quit well.

Mark Mohrfield

Compared to D&D? compared to WFRP? I think you will find them rather small. But then, official numbers will not be available, so we wont know for sure, exactly how big the difference is.

Nothing has many players compared to D&D. About WFRP I'd guess the answer is yes. My point , though, is that by rpg standards Glorantha does have many fans.

All I know is that you start discussing RPGs with different players, these days, Glorantha and Talislanta are not two settings that often enter into the discussions.
Middle Earth (*groan*) and the different D&D settings, as well as the Warhammer world, and several more traditional settings, on the other hand do.

Not sure what you're saying here, unless you meant "many players" where you wrote "different players."

 

[Archer]

Gloranthan elves have always been stated to be sapient mobile plants.

I know, I do not complain about them being plants. I complain about them looking nothing like elves. In the past they still looked like elves.
They could be made out of rubber or stone, for all I care, as long as they look as elves when they are called elves.

Uh, you know what elves, Gloranthan or otherwise, look like?

I know how they look in modern fantasy litterature today, and the image associated with the word, as well as the nordic mythology versions.

Glorantha already has a strong fan following; Heroquest sales are doing quit well.

Mark Mohrfield

Compared to D&D? compared to WFRP? I think you will find them rather small. But then, official numbers will not be available, so we wont know for sure, exactly how big the difference is.

Nothing has many players compared to D&D. About WFRP I'd guess the answer is yes. My point , though, is that by rpg standards Glorantha does have many fans.

Hard to judge, but not at the top, and not at the bottom is a good guess.

All I know is that you start discussing RPGs with different players, these days, Glorantha and Talislanta are not two settings that often enter into the discussions.
Middle Earth (*groan*) and the different D&D settings, as well as the Warhammer world, and several more traditional settings, on the other hand do.

Not sure what you're saying here, unless you meant "many players" where you wrote "different players."

I meant "many" but thought and wrote "different" because I made a quick translation of the swedish word without too much thought.

 

[Cobra]

Here is something else to consider. Since core MRQ is going to be used in different settings, I wonder what races they have in the core rules? Do they have more traditional Elves, Dwarves, Trolls etc. in the core rules with the alien Aldryami and Uz Trolls only being presented in the Gloranthan material?

In my opinion that would be a good move on Mongoose's part as that way they could cater to people on both sides of the fence.

Lord Twig: Good point - I would think you are right about this. Dwarves were written up in the core rulebook (and maybe elves will be, too), Aldryami in the Glorantha book (maybe Mostali, too).

If we all just accepted things as they are, and praised them to the skies instead of giving opinions on what we do not like as well as what we like, game developers do not get any valuable feedback for future reference.

Archer: I believe the point was not that you experessed an opinion, but that you continue to express it ad nauseum after we all got it. Can we please move the elves discussion back to the elves thread and have done?

Thank You.

Cobra

 

[HyrumOWC]

In the RQ SRD (basically just the rules, no "fluff") that I have, Elves and Dwarves are just a collection of stats with no descriptions. Their skills and traits do make them look like fairly generic versions of their respective race however.

Hyrum.

 

[Archer]

Archer: I believe the point was not that you experessed an opinion, but that you continue to express it ad nauseum after we all got it. Can we please move the elves discussion back to the elves thread and have done?

Thank You.

Cobra

Sure, no problem. Though argument continued/continues to come flying, so I just went with the flow there for a while, answering.

I am far more intrested in knowing if elves, dwarves, etc. will be the standard fare (in their description, appearance etc.) in the core rule book or not.

 

[Archer]

In the RQ SRD (basically just the rules, no "fluff") that I have, Elves and Dwarves are just a collection of stats with no descriptions. Their skills and traits do make them look like fairly generic versions of their respective race however.

Hyrum.

Thank you for giving us at least so much.

I wonder if the monster book (assuming the core book use generic descriptions as well) also will be that generic.

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

I know how they look in modern fantasy litterature today, and the image associated with the word, as well as the nordic mythology versions.

This assumes that there is one way that they look in modern literature and norse mythology. the word has been applied to many different meanings over the years.

I also think that the picture is being taken too seriously. It's probably not even meant to be definitive, just one artist's interpretation. Even if it were there's the possibility that not all elves look that way. It's been stated that elves become more plant-like as they age; perhaps it's a picture of an old elf.

Mark Mohrfield

 

[Adept]

One of the worst things to happen to the Fantasy genre, tolkien. The years when the books became movies was some of the most dreadful, every person I know that had any slight intrest in fantasy was all tolkien-crazy.
I just thought the movies really cheesy, and dull. Basically what I thought about his books, a total ripoff from nordic folklore, with the most basic fantasy story of all trying to tie it together.

Hey! I never said that!

I'm a big fan of Tolkien. I just don't see why Gloranthan elves should be Tolkien's elves.

 

[Adept]

Bottom line, people like to play attractive characters. Look at all of the Online games. Do they have ugly characters in them? Sure they have playable races like Trolls and Ogres for people who want to have a character with brute force, but for everything else the demand is for physically attractive characters.

Oh, blech.

The fact that Glorantha is original is a big part of her charm. And the thing about just wanting to play pretty characters is really depressing.

 

[Adept]

Here is a picture of something that would be a little more acceptable.

http://gionco.com/Malos/Une%20Aldryami%20noble%20Civilis%E9e.jpg

http://gionco.com/Malos/Un%20Aldryami%20pr%EAtre%20civilis%E9.jpg

http://gionco.com/malos.htm

Edit again: Warning that the broo pictures are pretty graphic. Although highly acurate in my opinion.

Blech again. Pandering very much to the "pretty" again. Heck, the female archer "elf" there made me remember a quib by my GM many years back. After a a game session that mostly revolved around my young character being seduced, and having sex for the first time he said "And that's why it's called fantasy roleplaying".

What he said in jest, I say about those elf picures