Second game, new questions

[dalek4890l]

That's a good, concise explanation Sgt-G. Please don't hold back if you feel like doing some more on other aspects of the game (anti-drones, Federation drone racks etc.).

 

[deadshane]

You rolled 1,1,2,3,3,5,6 and thus did five points of damage plus one critial hit. Next, roll one d6 on the Systems Table. You rolled a "5" which is a Crew hit. Because phtons are "Devistating +1", the this becomes a Level 2 critical. The target loses one Marine for the Level 1 critial, and two more for the Level 2 critical. Additionally, the ship takes another point of damage on the damage track. That critical hit is marked "Escalate", so at the end of the game-turn, the taget must attempt to stop the cascade damage.

Actually, this is almost correct. The mistake is in the final sentence, you're not taking enough damage for the critical hit.

If you take a "Devestating +1" hit to the crew you will indeed lose the two marines and escalate. However, the extra damage you take is incorrect.

The damage you take on the critical chart equals the actual critical score AND the Extra damage score.

If you take a devestating+1 hit on a fresh location you will take 4 damage on top of the initial hull shot.

Critical score 1, Critical score 2, and Extra Damage 1.

Sh!t just got Real-er!

 

[emperorpenguin]

The damage you take on the critical chart equals the actual critical score AND the Extra damage score.

If you take a devestating+1 hit on a fresh location you will take 4 damage on top of the initial hull shot.

Critical score 1, Critical score 2, and Extra Damage 1.

Sh!t just got Real-er!

That's not correct, Sgt G had it right. I think the mistake you are making is based on the incorrect examples given on page 8 which the playtesters have confirmed were based on a previous critical chart.

 

[deadshane]

The damage you take on the critical chart equals the actual critical score AND the Extra damage score.

If you take a devestating+1 hit on a fresh location you will take 4 damage on top of the initial hull shot.

Critical score 1, Critical score 2, and Extra Damage 1.

Sh!t just got Real-er!

That's not correct, Sgt G had it right. I think the mistake you are making is based on the incorrect examples given on page 8 which the playtesters have confirmed were based on a previous critical chart.

Is this another one of those "unofficial" forum posts that I havent seen? B/c according to the rulebook I'm correct. The FAQ/Errata say nothing of the kind on this subject.

 

[Greg Smith]

It is in the FAQ:

On page 8 the example given with a Federation Heavy Cruiser it says the Federation Heavy Cruiser gains a Critical Score of 1 on the Impulse drive, causing an extra point of damage. However, when you look at the table for the Impulse Drive, under Critical Score 1 it shows extra damage of 0. Which is correct?
The table is correct.

 

[deadshane]

Yes but does this mean that you do not take the "critical score" in damage as the rest of the example sites?

You would indeed take a point of Extra damage....but is it "Extra Damage" as noted by the table? No, but its extra damage all the same.

The table is indeed correct. You dont take "Extra Damage", but you do take extra damage.

You see where I'm going with this?

I'd like to say a post stating that the full example is incorrect. The FAQ doesnt really state that it is...and the wording of the FAQ still supports my version.


EDITlease don't think I'm trying to be argumentative...I just want to know the proper way to play it...for obvious reasons.

 

[emperorpenguin]

The term "Critical score" is for tracking stages of criticals, it has no damage value as of itself.

 

[Greg Smith]

You don't gain damage equal to the critical score.

The rules say:

When a location sustains a critical hit, it will gain a Critical Score equal to the damage caused by the hit. For most weapons this will be one,...

You gain damage from the Extra damage. Again rules:

Consult the location and its Critical Score and apply the Extra Damage and Effects listed for that Critical Score ...

 

[Sgt_G]

Sorry, I read the rule and not the example in the rulebook. Seeing as that example was wrong, I guess I was better off. Dinner was handed to me, so I didn't get to finish my example.

At the end of the turn, the target ship attampts to repair the damage. He cannot replace Marines or repair the six points of damage to his damage track. He rolls a d6 and adds the Crew Quality to repair the critical hit. Sadly, he rolls a "2" and adds the Crew rating of "4", which adds up to less than the "9" total required to repair the critical. He then rolls for Escalation. One a 4,5 or 6, he stops the cascade damage. He rolled a "1" and is having a bad day. The critical goes to Level 3 and adds another 2 points of damage and Crew Quality drops from 4 to 3.

So, on the next game turn, your photons are empty, so you use the Reload action, giving your target a chance breath. He thinks you're going to finish him off with phasers, so he used Boost Shields action. You decide to go after another target instead.

At the end of the turn, the first target now needs to roll a "6" to repair the critial hit because of the -1 to Crew Quality. He fails. He also fails to stop the escalation, so now the it's at a Level 4 critical, causing three more points of damage, the loss of two more Marines. To make matters worse, he no cannot use any Special Actions and therefor can't use All Hands On Deck to give himself a +2 to the repair attempt. The best he can hope for is to stop the escalation. If he doesn't, he'll go to Level 5 and take a d6 of damage. There's a term for his situation: he's screwed.

 

[scoutdad]

Jumping in on the Sgt_G and Greg Smith bandwagen here.
Matthew has ruled thatthe example as written is wrong.

The "Critical Score" is simply a way to track the level of the criticals at each location.
You will take one point of damage from each critical hit (as per result 6 on the attack table) and you will also take any extra damage as shown on the critical score chart... i.e., no extra damage for crictal score of 1, 1 extra point at 2, and so on.

 

[deadshane]

Where is it that he stated this? What forum post?

...and again, it's really not official until the rulebook and/or Errata reflects it. Until then, the example in the book is the correct example...and leaves nothing to question as to how the rule works.

Disclaimer:again, I'm not trying to be arguementative...just wanting to know how things are supposed to work.

 

[Totenkopf]

Where is it that he stated this? What forum post?

...and again, it's really not official until the rulebook and/or Errata reflects it. Until then, the example in the book is the correct example...and leaves nothing to question as to how the rule works.

Disclaimer:again, I'm not trying to be arguementative...just wanting to know how things are supposed to work.

deadshane, the faq already states that the example was written based on a previous incarnation of the rules, and therefore is incorrect.

 

[deadshane]

Where is it that he stated this? What forum post?

...and again, it's really not official until the rulebook and/or Errata reflects it. Until then, the example in the book is the correct example...and leaves nothing to question as to how the rule works.

Disclaimer:again, I'm not trying to be arguementative...just wanting to know how things are supposed to work.

deadshane, the faq already states that the example was written based on a previous incarnation of the rules, and therefore is incorrect.

All the FAQ states is that the table is correct and you do not add "extra damage", the FAQ doesnt address the fact that your ship also takes damage equivilent to the critical score as in the example on page 8.

That's looking at it from my point of veiw...Looking at it from you guys' point of view I can also see the logic in your interpretation. (after studying it and forcing myself to see the rule in a different way)

Can someone please post where it is stated that the example on pg 8 is wrong and where Matt is seen refuting it? That would give me greater clarity on the matter.

 

[deadshane]

for the record...playing the way you guys are suggesting is going to make ships INCREDIBLY resiliant to me according to the way I've been playing.

The way I've been playing, it was incredibly rare for a ship to reach level 6 criticals and not be exploding....

The resiliancy is probably a good thing. Ships don't need to be that fragile and/or crippled so easily.

 

[Kirksfolly]

I don't know where the forum posting is on this (and I've no intention of trawling through the forum to find it!) BUT I spoke to Matthew at the Penarth Show a couple of weeks ago on this subject and he actually said that I should 'ignore the example completely'. I agree that it may have been better if the FAQ had simply said that also.

 

[Greg Smith]

...the FAQ doesnt address the fact that your ship also takes damage equivilent to the critical score as in the example on page 8.

I don't quite see where you are getting this from. To be honest, I think you are reading something into the example that isn't there.

The example says:

So, for example, a Federation Heavy Cruiser receives a critical hit to its impulse drive from a phaser. It gains a Critical Score of 1 on the impulse drive, causing an extra point of damage...

Which bears out your argument.

But it also says:

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a new critical hit to its impulse drive from a disruptor, then the engine’s Critical Score will go up to 2. It will take an additional 3 points of damage...

Which does not fit with what you are saying.

And further:

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a critical hit to its dilithium chamber from a plasma torpedo with the Devastating +1 trait, it will immediately have a Critical Score of 2 on the dilithium chamber. It will suffer a total of 4 points of Extra Damage....

Which also doesn't fit with what you are saying.

 

[deadshane]

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a new critical hit to its impulse drive from a disruptor, then the engine’s Critical Score will go up to 2. It will take an additional 3 points of damage...

Which does not fit with what you are saying.

Sure it does. Critical score goes up to 2 and the Extra Damage box shows 1. That's the three Additional damage.

And further:

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a critical hit to its dilithium chamber from a plasma torpedo with the Devastating +1 trait, it will immediately have a Critical Score of 2 on the dilithium chamber. It will suffer a total of 4 points of Extra Damage....

Which also doesn't fit with what you are saying.

Again, certainly it does.

Critical score 1
Critical score 2
Extra damage 1

Add them together and that's 4 points of damage.

This is the example, its very clear in the book as to how it works.

Now according to the FAQ, I agree it can be interpreted that you don't use the Critical score as extra damage...but it's actually worded pretty poorly (one could say lazily as the response is painfully short and not explaining anything.)

It's a Muddy FAQ though....The process should've been better explained with such a sweeping change. I've got local friends also into this game that found the rulebook explanation to be quite simple and easy to follow.

 

[Iron Domokun]

Deadshane, the Critical Score is simply a way of tracking how severe the critical is. You do NOT take extra damage based on the number in the Critical Score heading on the table, only on the Extra Damage entry for that Critical Score. It's that simple.

This is the example, its very clear in the book as to how it works.

Apparently not clear enough, because you insist on misreading it.

for the record...playing the way you guys are suggesting is going to make ships INCREDIBLY resiliant to me according to the way I've been playing.

If that's so, it's more evidence that our interpretation is correct. Matt noted in one of his design blogs that Trek ships can have "all the criticals in the world, yet keep functioning" which is why he doubled the hull scores from the initial values during playtest. ACTASF ships can have lots of criticals and still keep flying.

 

[deadshane]

Deadshane, the Critical Score is simply a way of tracking how severe the critical is. You do NOT take extra damage based on the number in the Critical Score heading on the table, only on the Extra Damage entry for that Critical Score. It's that simple.

This is the example, its very clear in the book as to how it works.

Apparently not clear enough, because you insist on misreading it.

That's not very helpful here, and borderline inflammetory. There's no reason for that.

I'm not misreading the example on page 8 at all....unless myself AND my entire gaming group are illiterate.

Deadshane, the Critical Score is simply a way of tracking how severe the critical is. You do NOT take extra damage based on the number in the Critical Score heading on the table, only on the Extra Damage entry for that Critical Score. It's that simple.

Not according to the main rulebook....and the faq only implies this and can be interpreted one way or the other due to the FAQ/Errata being a bit unclear. I'm taking your word for it here because it seems like it could be right. However, if you've been to forums before...most info gained off of gaming forums must be taken with a grain of salt.

I've asked for it repeatadly where in the Forums that Matt has said that the example for damage given on page 8 is incorrect...as he is the game designer, I could take that more like gospel if not an "official" ruling. (since a forum post isnt "published" and doesnt count as official FAQ/Errata)

....so far in this thread noone has directed me anywhere where I can see it. Also, Matt hasnt come in to say otherwise.

Don't take my posting to be argumentative. I'm not trying to create drama and arguments here. I'm a gamer trying to nail down a SOLID interpretation. Something the FAQ/Errata should've gone in depth with.

 

[Greg Smith]

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a new critical hit to its impulse drive from a disruptor, then the engine’s Critical Score will go up to 2. It will take an additional 3 points of damage...

Which does not fit with what you are saying.

Sure it does. Critical score goes up to 2 and the Extra Damage box shows 1. That's the three Additional damage.

And further:

If the Heavy Cruiser then receives a critical hit to its dilithium chamber from a plasma torpedo with the Devastating +1 trait, it will immediately have a Critical Score of 2 on the dilithium chamber. It will suffer a total of 4 points of Extra Damage....

Which also doesn't fit with what you are saying.

Again, certainly it does.

Critical score 1
Critical score 2
Extra damage 1

Add them together and that's 4 points of damage.

This is the example, its very clear in the book as to how it works.

Ok, I see where how you came to your interpretation.

You've studied the incorrect example and worked out how to make it fit.

You seem to be paying way more attention to the example than the actual rules though.