S&P 47 SST Evo Announcement Thoughts...

[darklord4]

Good -
MGP's usual honesty
The stats and rules seem to be done (based on the ending part)

Bad -
There seems to be production problems delaying things
An estimate of release would have been cool. Even if its something like Q4 '07 or Q2 '08

Ugly - (because it's from me )
I don't agree with the PC game and RC model analogy
PC Games do not require the amount of investment that a miniature game has. If I am waiting, I can drop $50 on another game and another when the game I really want comes out. Miniature games, require a lot more investment. If I put into something else, chances are I have decided not to go with the later thing.
RC Models are much different in that while you are waiting for a new radio or speed controller to come out, you can build/fix your model body or rework it for the new stuff.
Currently, without new stats we are stuck playing/demoing V1.0 Evo. How would you convince a new player eyeing the AT-43 starter box to wait for SST? For the older GW players, if someone demoed 2ed just before 3ed, how would you feel? Also, if we need to rework/remodify some figures, please give us old-model users a heads up so we can have our figs done at the release.

 

[MaxSteiner]

Its all bad as far as Im concerned.

 

[Poi]

This is the least worst outcome, which could have been the whole line being dropped.

Do the productioon delays stop you from playing? Only if you want the Forth.

So I'll finish my Roughnecks (buying final bits on Saturday) and get on with taking out bugs.

As prepainted bugs are a way off, I'm yoinking some from a mate who wants to move to Skinnies (no accounting for taste).

I will wait for the prepaints, and get more bugs. More buugs. More bugs!

 

[MaxSteiner]

Yes the production delays can stop people playing poi.
There was a mass exodus when Mongoose chose to kill off V1 (Which I can kinda understand to be honest now), new players are hesitant to buy in, because Mongoose keeps insisting its coming out right up until the release date when they make some 'BIG announcement' and tell us its being delayed again...
After Mighty Armies, GOMC1, SST, BF:E and all the other dead in the water Mongoose games I really wonder if theres many people left (Stores and players) which are willing to take the risk...

 

[JoseDominguez]

Bear in mind, we (the forum users) are a tiny minority of mongoose players, judging by the current climate, I'd be surprised if they kept bothering with us

My main worry would be that GW get on the pre-paint bandwagon before sst-evo is up and running. My lot have allready gone in for AT-43 big time, but having said that it's kinf of encouraged them to go for pre-paints (if the evo stuff is as god, should be an easy transition back to a system they loved).
The other problem with my group is their love of fantasy wargaming, we just don't have the time to paint, we'd prefer to spend what free-time we have playing, but cash isn't a problem...... so pre-paints are the way. With confrontation from Rackham going pre-paint in november, I'm not sure if their will be much room left for Evo.
It's unfortunate that the delays have happened, but what is bitching about it going to accomplish?
The rules are going to be published for free as a stop-gap, that seems pretty good, most of us that are complaining loudest already have armies ready don't we?
So, when it all comes down to it.... we will have to wait a bit to play a particular wargame with pre-paints (the first wave of which we probably don't need immediately as we've got the basics).
Millions across the globe would pray to have a life so easy, that this could be considered a problem

 

[MaxSteiner]

The problem is, as has been shown quite a few times already, Mongoose have no reservations about pulling an unprofitable game.
And the way its going, as you say, I dont think theres going to be much room for SST:Evo in the prepaint market at this rate....

 

[JoseDominguez]

There'll be a huge market for it, remember, with pre-paints they aren't stuck with painters and modellers anymore. Anyone who likes SST the film, book or CGI will have some interest. Non-games stores can sell it as a normal 'board game' (I'm thinking Toys'r'us etc...). Suddenly wargaming can become an actual game you paly for the sake of it, not a complete hobby that sucks up most of you time.

I was talking specifically about my group, we are allready playing AT-43 and confrontation is on the horizon. But, having said that, how many new gamers will appear due to the pre-paints? I know of two from my group who play 'wargames' like battlelore because you don't need to assemble minis, they (and lots like them) will jump at this. They were always interested in SST, but wouldn't paint models.

 

[MaxSteiner]

All of this hinges on Mongoose actually getting the product out before Wizkids, Hasbro/WOTC, Rackham, or GW (Rumour has it the new version of spacehulk will be prepainted) release their big game.
The more glutted the market is, the less attractive the Mongoose product will be.
And what happens if the potential buyers check into the fate of Mongooses other games?
Surely the retailers who carry Mongoose minatures are getting a bit sick of this as well?

I wish them all the best of luck, but they're going to need more than luck aty this stage.

 

[JoseDominguez]

All true, I'm not disputing it.... but at the end of all of this, I want to be able to play SST-Evo. I'm worried that all our negativity is going to make that ever more unlikely.
As for the glutt in the market, not such a problem, as pre-paints are going to expand the relatively small wargaming market into the general populace.

 

[Alexb83]

This is the least worst outcome, which could have been the whole line being dropped.

Do the productioon delays stop you from playing? Only if you want the Forth.

So I'll finish my Roughnecks (buying final bits on Saturday) and get on with taking out bugs.

As prepainted bugs are a way off, I'm yoinking some from a mate who wants to move to Skinnies (no accounting for taste).

I will wait for the prepaints, and get more bugs. More buugs. More bugs!

What really stops me from playing is the lack of opponents, and more importantly the lack of tournaments at mongoose. To the extent that I've got large armies painted up but have hardly ever played.
Just because evo is forthcoming, does not mean the company should withdraw active promotion from existing SST. Especially not since their sales are as Matt says, level. Bearing this in mind, I may see if I can bring my models up this weekend to open day. I doubt we'll have tables allocated, but if anyone else fancies a game, maybe something can be facilitated?

 

[JoseDominguez]

Promoting SST would probably be a good thing... they've dropped the prices and anything we buy will still be evo compatible.

Things will probably look different once the rules are available for download. Once I know how good a pathfinder is really going to be, I might actually get some of those 'on hold' painted up
If I don't prefer the rules to v1, then we'll probably stick with v1 and not buy anything else. Either way works for us. Lots of stuff out there.

 

[Alexb83]

Well, much as my opinion is with CTA2, if I don't like it, I'm happy to stick with playing v1.

I would dearly like to play SST more, as the games I have managed have been great fun. Currently my mixed MI battallion is gathering dust, and half my bugs aren't even painted...

 

[JoseDominguez]

Same here, we had the same reaction to evo as most..... stopped playing v1 which we loved and decided to wait, now I'm not sure why. We loved v1.

 

[CaseyGMU]

SST is having a bit of a rebirth amongst my two gaming groups. We've all started painting and playing again lately, mostly due from our playing and enjoying the hell out of BF:Evo.

SST is a fairly complete game now. I don't understand the necessity that games perpetually expand and grow. What's wrong with a company creating a set of rules and army lists that are balanced against each other and having that be the end of that?

From my perspective Mongoose has done alright by me. I wish they had made more armies for Mighty Armies and I'd like to see the aircraft for SST but they've never screwed me either.

As long as they finish their originally planned and playtested army lists for BF:Evo than I'll be happy.

We should also keep it in perspective that they've released BF:Evo, Victory at Sea, and a new version of A Call to Arms in one year. That's a lot for any company to do.

I want them to take their time and to finish their current games first before going off elsewhere. Finish BF:Evo and then move onto SST:Evo, otherwise I'll feel quite betrayed.

 

[Goldwyrm]

My group is on an upswing momentum with the existing game. We only started playing last summer. I just ran two big convention games two weeks ago, plan to play at Gencon in two weeks, and we've got a big 12+ player game scheduled in October. Maybe I'm more patient because I don't often play the the game more than once in a given month and have many other distractions to keep me occupied. It would take me well over a year just to go through the official scenarios for the existing rules.

 

[fellblade]

No one in my area (Tulsa, OK) has played SST for months. Most of us who played regularly stopped cold when they announced SST:Evo, eagerly awaiting bigger and better things. One or two others kept playing for a while, but the wait has been too long. We have moved on to other things, like back to WHFB or Warmachine.

When the BF:E minitures came out, they were greeted with howls of derision. I personally think they stink. I am so turned off by the quality of the figures that I have no interest in the rules. In fact, there is only one person around here who likes the game, and he can't find opponents. To be fair, he likes the game a lot, he says the rules are quite good... but everyone else would rather put their money into better-looking minatures.

AT-43 is gaining a solid following here. The prepaints are very good quality (something I was skeptical about, based on the BF:E fiasco), and the rules are fun and flexible, once you get past a few awkward translation issues. So now Mongoose has to produce miniatures that are at least as good, or they will lose market share.

I really think Mongoose ought to get the SST:Evo rulebook out so we can start using it. Especially if it is ready, and production is being delayed by the miniture end of things. Many of us have armies already. Give us a chance to get excited about the game, and when the new miniatures eventually hit the shelves, we'll be excited to buy them.

 

[JoseDominguez]

I couldn't persuade any of our group to play BF-Evo either, the minis are a real issue for most of my lot. AT-43 took off quickly, I'm hopeful that SST-Evo will be similar when it arrives, I'd rather wait than end up with something like BF-Evo minis.