Russians and other fleets

[Mr Evil]

will there be any russian ships available in the main VAS book ? as it doese mention many other of the major forces in the books description ?

also is it possable to do a merchant fleet ? ie pirates that operated in some areas.

also any chance of us picking up a copy during the tourny ?

 

[E Nicely]

No there won't be Russian ships in the main book.

Merchant ships don't really fit in the PL system, they're something that's scenario specific.

 

[Mr Evil]

i hope your wrong on the russian bit

forgeting a nation that lost millions of lives is a bit a faux pas

 

[rbax]

He's not......there are no Russians in the starting book. Fear not though. Work is already in progress on several additions. Whether in the form of S&P articles or an additional suppliment remains to be seen.

---- Rich

 

[Mr Evil]

just cuz hollywood dint make movies about it there were some colosal fleet engagments between the soviets and germany allies.

another system ignors them again... someone sunk my battle ship and probably lost the interest of many FOW groups in leaving them out.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

another system ignors them again... someone sunk my battle ship and probably lost the interest of many FOW groups in leaving them out.

They're not being ignored, they are in the works. There's only so many ships you can get in one book, and we squeezed a good few more in that Matt had initially intended! Don't start the doomsaying for VaS already, leave the whiners for ACtA. The Soviet fleet is NOT one of the most important, significant, or, most certainly, better known fleets of WW2, they shouldn't get priority over those in the book. They'll get added in soon enough. Of course, if you don't buy the book because it didn't provide everything you wanted when you wanted it, regardless of what everyone else wanted, that's one less sale towards justifying further support. Buy the book and it'll be expanded.

Wulf

 

[Reaverman]

another system ignors them again... someone sunk my battle ship and probably lost the interest of many FOW groups in leaving them out.

They're not being ignored, they are in the works. There's only so many ships you can get in one book, and we squeezed a good few more in that Matt had initially intended! Don't start the doomsaying for VaS already, leave the whiners for ACtA. The Soviet fleet is NOT one of the most important, significant, or, most certainly, better known fleets of WW2, they shouldn't get priority over those in the book. They'll get added in soon enough. Of course, if you don't buy the book because it didn't provide everything you wanted when you wanted it, regardless of what everyone else wanted, that's one less sale towards justifying further support. Buy the book and it'll be expanded.

Wulf

Hey not all us ACTA players are whiners

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Hey not all us ACTA players are whiners

Nope, but if we can keep them all fenced in over on that forum, the non-whiners can move over here, then we can napalm the ACtA forum, and repopulate it with non-whiners...

Wulf

 

[Reaverman]

Hey not all us ACTA players are whiners

Nope, but if we can keep them all fenced in over on that forum, the non-whiners can move over here, then we can napalm the ACtA forum, and repopulate it with non-whiners...

Wulf

LOL...thats called expansionism isnt it

 

[DM]

I'm the chappie writing up the Russians. The article detailing their ships and aircraft has been submitted to S&P and (fingers crossed) assuming it passes muster with Mongoose HQ, will be appearing sometime shortly after the rules hit the streets. For info there are three destroyer classes, one submarine, seven cruiser classes, three aircraft carriers, three battleship classes and a batlecruiser, as well as six aircraft types. All in all the Russians will be well covered.

Regarding "colossal fleet engagements" I'm pretty well read on Russian naval activity during WW2 and I'm not aware of anything that fits that description. What actions were you thinking of?

btw I just checked GQ3 (the latest "big" set of WW2 rules to hit the streets - no Russians included there, and (AFAIK) no plans to make Russian ship stats available for the forseeable future, so I think we are doing pretty well

 

[captainsmirk]

For info there are ... three aircraft carriers, three battleship classes and a battlecruiser

I presume those are "what if" designs mostly? The Russians not actually building many of this sort of thing...

Nick

 

[Mr Evil]

For info there are ... three aircraft carriers, three battleship classes and a battlecruiser

I presume those are "what if" designs mostly? The Russians not actually building many of this sort of thing...

Nick

VAS is WW2

 

[captainsmirk]

I realise that.
The Russians didn't build any aircraft carriers in WW2...

The first Russian-built aircraft carrier for fixed wing aircraft was the Kiev.

They captured the remains of Graf Zeppelin and probably drew up designs but they never actually built any, hence my assumption that they were "what if's"...


Nick

 

[Mr Evil]

I realise that.
The Russians didn't build any aircraft carriers in WW2...

The first Russian-built aircraft carrier for fixed wing aircraft was the Kiev.

They captured the remains of Graf Zeppelin and probably drew up designs but they never actually built any, hence my assumption that they were "what if's"...


Nick

Rumyniya auxiliary seaplane cruiser

Displacement: 4,500 tons full load
Dimensions: 357 x 42 x 27.5 feet/108.8 x 12.8 x 8.4 meters
Propulsion: VTE engines, 2 shafts, 6,500 ihp, 18 knots
Crew: ???
Armor: none
Armament: 4 6 inch SP, 1-4 75 mm AA
Aircraft: 4-7 seaplanes

Concept/Program: A Romanian passenger ship loaned in 1916 for Black Sea service. Served as combination seaplane carrier and auxiliary cruiser. Two sisters apparently saw service only as auxiliary cruisers, perhaps with one or two seaplanes.

Design/Conversion: Very simple conversion. Seaplane working deck built up over the main deck aft, with hoisting booms fitted on the aft mast.

Departure from Service/Disposal: Captured by the Germans 4/1918, to the British 11/1918, and returned to her owners.

for russia aircraft carriers were far from a new thing !!!!

but russians mostly used this type of carrier:
Merchant aircraft carriers (MACs), such as MV Empire MacAlpine, another emergency measure which saw cargo-carrying merchant ships equipped with flight decks

interestingly enough will we see any of these : Submarine aircraft carriers, such as the French Surcouf, or the Japanese I-400 class submarines which were capable of carrying 3 Aichi M6A Seiran aircraft. The first of these were built in the 1920s ?

the problems were with the soviet machin was most of the stuff they made wasnt recorded in history any engagment they won there ere little in way of survivors to report on what they saw, and russia mainly concentrated on the northern and pacific oceans i believ, my grandad talks of the russians as being a mystical eliment, if you saw a russian tank you called it in as a T34 and nothing else. the allies hardly saw a russian ship, and the germans that did often got killed at some point befor war was at end.

i think the russian list is probably the hardest to find information on, without going throungh russian archive sites, unfortuantly western keybourds arnt that great at it nor is google dman cyrillic


good luck to those putting the russian list together.

 

[DM]

I presume those are "what if" designs mostly? The Russians not actually building many of this sort of thing...

They are, but are based on actual Russian concept designs (e.g. Project 71, 72) so they aren't entirely fictional.

 

[captainsmirk]

Yep as I thought...

I didn't think that they would just pull stuff out of the air. A new of a few Russian battleship projects as well.

Plus MAC ships and Seaplane carriers are hardly aircraft carriers other than in the literal sense...nor are they likely to appear as front line ships in a game like VaS (well Seaplane carriers possibly...)

Nick

 

[BuShips]

Yeah, I was trying to let Mr Evil know in another thread that the Russians didn't have much for naval assets until the 1960's. They were once considered as having the 3rd largest fleet in the world (after Great Britain and France) but that was before WW1 and before the Russo-Japanese War where Russia fell from being the third greatest naval power to sixth place, courtesy of the Japanese. Now if Mr Evil wants to see some "'Eavy Metal" for the Russians, he needs to look up WW2 and a little battle called "Kursk" :wink: . I'm afraid that's where the Russians placed their molten steel towards, and good that they did. I also see a possibility if BFE goes well, that minis of WW2 stuff and rules could be offered, right Matthew and Alex?

A note for DM; I was going to say that GQ3 had these countries listed in their rules- United States, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Japan, but you pretty much said that with your answer. One thing about the battle of Kursk is that they could have made more than a few ships out of all of that metal, looking at it from a naval enthuiast's viewpoint :wink:

 

[BuShips]

Yep as I thought...

I didn't think that they would just pull stuff out of the air. A new of a few Russian battleship projects as well.

Plus MAC ships and Seaplane carriers are hardly aircraft carriers other than in the literal sense...nor are they likely to appear as front line ships in a game like VaS (well Seaplane carriers possibly...)

Nick

The WW2 Russians were planning a 16"-gunned 1st rate battleship (Sovyetskiy Soyuz Class), but it was never to be, although one was finished to 66%. The active BBs were basically WW1 vintage, and in 1944 the HMS Royal Sovereign was taken over as the Russian Arkhangelsk. Here is a good list of the Russian battleships-

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/battleships/russ_dr.htm

 

[Jellicoe]

I presume those are "what if" designs mostly? The Russians not actually building many of this sort of thing...

They are, but are based on actual Russian concept designs (e.g. Project 71, 72) so they aren't entirely fictional.

And project 21, 23, 25, 64 and the list goes on and on . Not fictional, but given the inability of Soviet industry to fabricate the main batteries they were a long way off from contstructing useable ships.

 

[Itkovian]

Any notion of when the Dutch will appear, as I find the battle of Java Sea is quite a nice big 'smaller' ship battle.

Especially if you can manage to get one player per allied squadron...