runequest newbie here

[nebulous]

How does HP and life and damage and armor (and all that jazz) work in Runequest? I'm familiar with BRP CoC, and i'm famililar with Conan d20, and passingly familiar with the old old RQ.

Can you die easily in one hit? Is there a downward spiral of Fatigued and Stunned and all that?

I own (but not played) the Game of Thrones RPG and the combat system in that is unforgiving. You really want to AVOID fights. But combat is so much fun, it's one of my favorite aspects of a fantasy rpg, i don't want it watered down or made so dangerous it's avoided.

The GoT btw drops AoO and implements a called shot system to bypass armor. Half your Con score in damage can Stun you, and you bleed like a stuck pig most of the time. Definitely not your typical D&D game.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

One hit kills, severed limbs, guts spilling out all over the ground. That's the stuff RQ combat is made of. Yes, it has HP, but in "classic" RQ they were divided between hit-location HP (so an arm with 6 HP might take 3 damage from a hypothetical attack) and total HP (the 3 damage were also deducted from this; also used for more global damage situations). MRQ does away with total HP, but apparently has a replacement mechanic that gives equivalent results.

The beauty is that it's all so simple. Take damage exceeding a location's HP and it's incapacitated. Take damage exceeding 2 x a location's HP and it's "wooops, where did my arm go?"

Armour subtracts from damage, but there are rules for impales, knockbacks and so on. RQ3 added a fairly clunky (IMHO) Fatigue system which MRQ retains in a much more simplified format.

One other thing: the HP you get in RQ are all you're ever going to have. They do not increase with experience. So even the most powerful characters walk carefully.

 

[andakitty]

You might also want to check out Stormbringer 5. It has the best version of combat of any BRP game, IMO. It also has a much simpler, but flavorful, hit point system. Best of all, you have integrated parry and dodge so that the given situation dictates which you defend with. There are actually advantages to one that make it different from the other. To disengage or close, use dodge. For maximum protection or a chance to riposte, use parry. Armor is random, weapons use the same range as RQ2.

Judging from your posts above, you really should check this game out. It's weakness, for me at least, is that it is tied to Moorcocks Elric stories. Which means the magic system is mostly summoning and manipulating demons and elementals. I am hoping MRQ will be easier to use in a more vanilla style fantasy game.

 

[atgxtg]

You might also want to check out Stormbringer 5. It has the best version of combat of any BRP game, IMO. It also has a much simpler, but flavorful, hit point system. Best of all, you have integrated parry and dodge so that the given situation dictates which you defend with. There are actually advantages to one that make it different from the other. To disengage or close, use dodge. For maximum protection or a chance to riposte, use parry. Armor is random, weapons use the same range as RQ2.

Judging from your posts above, you really should check this game out. It's weakness, for me at least, is that it is tied to Moorcocks Elric stories. Which means the magic system is mostly summoning and manipulating demons and elementals. I am hoping MRQ will be easier to use in a more vanilla style fantasy game.

Boy, some point to disagree with there. I considered the latter editions of Strombringer to be among the worst version of BRP combat. Strombringer 5 is a pretty horrible BRP game, IMO. THat stats mean nothing (no category modifers), and everyone needs weapon skills over 100% to start. It is simplied, but not in a good way. And the SPOT RULES section complicates it all back up again anyway.

But, hey, that's just my opinion. For someone who likes the CoC rules, Strombringer 5 might look good.

 

[andakitty]

Not just 'might'. What matters is the guy that was talking about system elements in combat may like it based on his statements, not you or me. :wink:

 

[atgxtg]

Not just 'might'. What matters is the guy that was talking about system elements in combat may like it based on his statements, not you or me. :wink:

Well, by his statments-about having fun with combat and not wanting it to be deadly, he should probably avoid ALL variantions of RQ/BRP. RQ makes "Game of Thrones" look like a tea party.

I'd say go for something in a less lethal game-maybe HeroQuest, or Decipher's Lord of the Rings RPG game.

Yeah LOTR! Fairly decent game; easy for D&Ders to grasp; combat is dangoerous, but not really that deadly; a pretty good match.

PS> Hey Kitty, I suspect that if you were going to pick a favorite edtion of Stormbringer it would prbably have been amn earlier edtion?

 

[andakitty]

Have to be the first edition. I have probably played that one game more than every other rpg put together. The homebrew mixture of it and Magic World I have mentioned was used most of the time. When Elric! came out we tried it and wound up taking some of the better ideas out and going back to our regular game. In fact, no matter what else I have tried I have always gone back to Ken St. Andres simple and, for me, most playable version of BRP. How about you? And I've been wondering, what is the meaning of 'atgxtg'?

 

[atgxtg]

Have to be the first edition. I have probably played that one game more than every other rpg put together. The homebrew mixture of it and Magic World I have mentioned was used most of the time. When Elric! came out we tried it and wound up taking some of the better ideas out and going back to our regular game. In fact, no matter what else I have tried I have always gone back to Ken St. Andres simple and, for me, most playable version of BRP. How about you? And I've been wondering, what is the meaning of 'atgxtg'?

LOL. I knew you were going to pick 1st edtion Stormbringer. I think I have a pretty good read on where you are coming from now. It helps a lot on understanding some of your choices and style of play.

IMO, Strombringer 1st Edtion is one of the better BRP products. Essentially, it is RQ2.5, since it incoprtated many of the ideas that wound up in RQ3 a few years later. Give Steve Perrin credit for most of that. THe stuff with Ken St. Andre influeces is mostly the vastly overpowered magic system (something that you have said that you didn't use much).

For me the question is a bit tougher, since "playability" is often a trade off for flexibility or better realsim. I probably prefer RQ3 the best, but there are several RQ2 rules that I wish had been kept in RQ3, like the 12 Strike Ranks vs. 10. Heck, in some ways, Harn is one of my favorite RQ/BRP deriatives. THen again, I have run lots of Pendragon, an RPG that is obviously RQ inspired. In some ways, I prefer Pendragon with some of RQ's ideas ported over.

As for simplicity/easy of play, I'd probably have to go with BRP, possibly with Magic World as the simplies/easier to play.


As for my handle, atgxtg, that actually came form an old website/BBS I used to visist. Back in the early days of computing, I was able to get by with a 3 letter id, "atg" (my initials), and needed an easy password "xtg". When IDs and passwords got longer, "atgxtg" ended up as a handle on a few sites, since it was something that I could easily remember.

 

[andakitty]

Thanks for the heads up about the authorship. I am not sure where the impression that St. Andre was the primary author for Stormbringer came from. It is strange now that I think about it , 'cause I never cared for 'Tunnels and Trolls' at all (it goes waaay to far in the direction of simple for me). It gives me more hope for MRQ, because I believe they have Perrin on board as an 'advisor', as it were. I should have known after I found out about the 10% critical. Anyway, thanks for that info.

Pendragon, huh. You must like social mechanics mixed into your gaming. That one didn't stick too well with me, I think because the person who tried to run it was trying to do hack and slash.

We also took some of the material from RQ2, weapon and combat rules, strike rank, encumbrance and so on. Some of the group at that time loved RQ but were not so fond of Glorantha. Or the Young Kingdoms. All of which points to BRP's versatility and gives yet more hope for MRQ.

And here is a tip for you. If you want a rpg with a good balance of playability, flexibility and realism, check out Epic rpg. I was about to order it when I found out MRQ is to be a cousin of BRP. I still might. It is the kind of game that at the very least could be a good resource for a BRP or other game. There are some good, objective reviews at rpg.net, if you have time and inclination. It does use a 2D10 roll high target system, just so you know.

 

[atgxtg]

It gives me more hope for MRQ, because I believe they have Perrin on board as an 'advisor', as it were.

Really? Can you tell me where to look to confirm that? That would be the best bit of news I've heard about MRQ. It gives me hope that it might actually be RQ, or at least SPRQ rathern than just some other RPG that bought the name.

Pendragon, huh. You must like social mechanics mixed into your gaming. That one didn't stick too well with me, I think because the person who tried to run it was trying to do hack and slash.

I've seen Pendragon misused that way. A lot of people try to D&D it. It isn't that sort of RPG. THe social stuff is a nice addition to a RPG (puts the RP into RPG). Too much combat ruins a game. First, you tend to loose too many PCs if you fight all the time (dice will do that to you). Second, combat loses it's dramtic value if you can't walk out of the dungeoun without tripping over a dead body. Third, combat becomes a bit boring after awhile. Most decent GMs can calculate the odds (I hope so, if not they are going to screw up and slaughter a lot of PCs), and so can most decent players. After a time, everyone should relaize if an encounter is an actual threat, or if it is another "go through the motions" sort of thing. Taking the 140% up against the 30% is fun once, but gets stale if you are spening half the night doing it.

What makes Pendragon fun is the long term, campaign aspects of the game. You character can have a family and leave things to his sons. It is sort of nice to pass on that enchanted sword (a very rare item in Pendragon) to your son. Especially since in other RPGs you loose everything when you character dies.

We also took some of the material from RQ2, weapon and combat rules, strike rank, encumbrance and so on. Some of the group at that time loved RQ but were not so fond of Glorantha. Or the Young Kingdoms. All of which points to BRP's versatility and gives yet more hope for MRQ.

I ran more non-Gloranthan RQ that Gloranthan RQ. Partly becuase some of my players werenot font of Glorantha, but mostly because the vast majoity of my gaming group just couldn't get a good working grasp of battle magic. One thing about Glorantha is that you can't play a D&D style of fighter and leave the magic to thers. Everyone, espeically in the big leagues, needs to use the battle magic effectively. I tried to teach them so tactics, but it didn't work out. Heck, I even tired to convince a group of 3E D&Ders to have everyone take a level of Sorceror or Wizard just so we could pull off Rq's classic "gang disrupt" tactic in D&D. It's amazing what six to 8 magic missiles fired at one target can do in D&D. I thought it really qwould have givien us a nasty countermeasure to an enemy spellcaster.

On the other hand, I was a big Elric/YK fan (it was why I bought the game in the first place, and what really broke me away for AD&D. Until then I was trying to rework AD&D rules to address the thing I didn't like. Strombringer just cheucked all the crap that I hated and built a game from the ground up). I ran YK games for years (even in RQ). It's a depressing place though.

And here is a tip for you. If you want a rpg with a good balance of playability, flexibility and realism, check out Epic rpg. I was about to order it when I found out MRQ is to be a cousin of BRP. I still might. It is the kind of game that at the very least could be a good resource for a BRP or other game. There are some good, objective reviews at rpg.net, if you have time and inclination. It does use a 2D10 roll high target system, just so you know.

Epic, huh. I'll have to look it up. Lately I picked up the new Usagi Yojimbo RPG (from Sangiune, not Gold Rush) and have been rather pleasantly surprised. It has a lot of neat options, is fairly simple (if differnet), and has a combat system that allows for lots of customization, and has that "mobile combat" feel that MRQ is supposed to have. Oh, and it can be a deadly as hell too. Not that it always is so. IMO you need that one shot kill thing in a RPG if it has to handle things like iaijutsu duels or even showdowns with sixguns.

 

[andakitty]

The reference to Perrin was in one of the early announcements on this site. I just looked and noticed it is not there now. However, look at the Amazon blurb for the Runequest main rulebook. They have retained the phrasing of the earlier blurb here. The phrase is 'under the watchful eye of messers Stafford and Perrin'. Sparse, but there. It's possible because the blurb first appeared during MRQ's playtest phase, I believe.

The Young Kingdoms depressing. That is an understatement. I did run one campaign so the PC's saved the day and stopped the end of the world, though. That was the best one, and then there is the one where I let them play a party of young Melnibonean noblemen on drugs loose in the Young Kingdoms. It ended quickly and tragically, and they managed to burn down Ilmar in the process.

 

[atgxtg]

The reference to Perrin was in one of the early announcements on this site. I just looked and noticed it is not there now. However, look at the Amazon blurb for the Runequest main rulebook. They have retained the phrasing of the earlier blurb here. The phrase is 'under the watchful eye of messers Stafford and Perrin'. Sparse, but there. It's possible because the blurb first appeared during MRQ's playtest phase, I believe.

Maybe Perrin dropped out of hte projecyt then (not a good sign). MRQ has had a few changes sinced it was announced, such as the increase in the price and page count of the core RPG book.

The Young Kingdoms depressing. That is an understatement. I did run one campaign so the PC's saved the day and stopped the end of the world, though. That was the best one, and then there is the one where I let them play a party of young Melnibonean noblemen on drugs loose in the Young Kingdoms. It ended quickly and tragically, and they managed to burn down Ilmar in the process.

Probably the best result I got was witrh a group that did a little spheres travelling. They were on a differnet sphere when the YK got destroyed, although due to the differences in how time works between the spheres, they were able to return home, as it "hadn't happened yet." One of the characters managed to put some clues together (a combination of cryptic texts, as well as seeing and latter recognizing a structual landmark in the wreckage-sort of like seeing Big Ben floating by and then returning to London) and got off of the YK plane. It was actually quite an accomplishment.

I used to have a gift role playing Melniboneans. I'll never (nor will my playersa) forget the time that I was running one as a NPC who was engaged in a bitter conflict with a Pan Tangian Wizard. THe Melnibonean sort of co-opted the group to assist him on his quest. The group didn't want to go, but no one wanted to say no. THe high point was when the Melnionen dashed through a dimensional gateway after the Pan Tangain and shouted for the group to follow him. All but one of the PCs did just that. The final PC sighed, commented that he could never make it back to the ship alone (tto many nasties along the way) and then followed.

After jumping through the gate, both the player and I, the GM mentioned that we though the group wanted to get rid of the Melnibonean-why did they follow him?

"It seemed like the thing to do."

 

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Probably the best result I got was witrh a group that did a little spheres travelling. They were on a differnet sphere when the YK got destroyed, although due to the differences in how time works between the spheres, they were able to return home, as it "hadn't happened yet." One of the characters managed to put some clues together (a combination of cryptic texts, as well as seeing and latter recognizing a structual landmark in the wreckage-sort of like seeing Big Ben floating by and then returning to London) and got off of the YK plane. It was actually quite an accomplishment.

I used to have a gift role playing Melniboneans. I'll never (nor will my playersa) forget the time that I was running one as a NPC who was engaged in a bitter conflict with a Pan Tangian Wizard. THe Melnibonean sort of co-opted the group to assist him on his quest. The group didn't want to go, but no one wanted to say no. THe high point was when the Melnionen dashed through a dimensional gateway after the Pan Tangain and shouted for the group to follow him. All but one of the PCs did just that. The final PC sighed, commented that he could never make it back to the ship alone (tto many nasties along the way) and then followed.

After jumping through the gate, both the player and I, the GM mentioned that we though the group wanted to get rid of the Melnibonean-why did they follow him?

"It seemed like the thing to do."

I've had groups do things like that - almost a herd mentality and an anxiety not to be left out of the action.

Regards