Reprinting the RQ system rules with each new campaign world

[Baron Meliadus]

Further to a debate on a previous thread and Matthew Sprange's promise to reconsider future publishing policy, I thought it would be interesting to get a more widespread set of thoughts on whether people want to have the generic RQ system rules printed in every campaign setting book which Mongoose publishes. For those who don't know, the forthcoming Hawkmoon and Elric books will have 50 pages of their 160 length dedicated to reprinting the core RQ rules from MRQ.

On the one hand, having the core rules included in the campaign setting book means that only a single book is needed to run the game. Which is great for one time buyers and keeps everything in the same place.

On the other hand, reprinting the rules takes up a considerable number of book pages which could be used for further campaign information, and people who buy many Mongoose settings will be re-purchasing multiple copies of the same text.

What are people's opinions? Please discuss...

 

[indrodar]

I've voted a qualified yes. I personally don't need the rules in each setting (as I already have them), but for lines that have the potential to run on their own steam (such as Elric) then of course they should make them stand alone if they can.

Everyone complained about needing to have the companion as well as the main rulebook when the rules were first released. Are we going to say, well we had to pay the price - anyone who wants to play Elric must buy at least two books as well!!!

My main point is, I think the question is a bit skewed. Mongoose hasn't been talking about including the rules in all settings. I can see the point in having the rules in some of them though...

 

[Halfbat]

I follow indrodar on this: there are some options missing, mainly to do with "some" setting rulebooks rather than every. If a game can be standalone, such as the Elric line, then great, produce a core setting book with the core rules, especially as there is enough source material to produce multiple supplements (like Conan).

 

[Rurik]

I don't mind that they are reprinting the rules, particularly if they are fixing some of the complaints. My big fear is that the Core Rules I bought will become largely irrelevent.

If I'm running Elric or Hawkmoon it will be kind of nice to only to have to deal with the books specific to the game I'm running and not have to rent a truck to lug my MRQ library around.

I think it makes sense also from a business point - people want a self contained game. One of the biggest complaints regarding MRQ was that it was NOT all in one book.

One could argue that Chaosium could have released Hawkmoon (boxed), Elfquest, Ringworld, etc as just Supplements too.

So I am a another Yes for lack of a better option. I wouldn't have been upset at all if the EC stuff was source only, but I don't mind that the rules are in there.

And it is NOT in ALL upcomming settings, only some of them.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Just to point out, we are not intending to do the rules in every setting (we haven't with Lankhmar and Slaine). Only those that are effectively RPGs in their own right, with their own line of supplements.

 

[Rurik]

I also just had a thought about this subject.

It is pretty much people who have a long history with BRP who complain about the MRQ rules. People who have no history with BRP don't have that baggage*.

It is kind of interesting that the EC games contain the MRQ rules with fixes for some early complaints seeing as how those games will obviously be compared to their Chaosium ancestors, and scrutinized by players familiar with the earlier games.

Slaine on the other hand has no such history, and does not get any special rules treatment.

Just a thought.

* I'm not calling Chaosium BRP "baggage" in a bad way mind you - I have years of that baggage and it has been good baggage indeed.

 

[Baron Meliadus]

Just to point out, we are not intending to do the rules in every setting (we haven't with Lankhmar and Slaine). Only those that are effectively RPGs in their own right, with their own line of supplements.

Could you be a bit clearer here? Lankhmar has a supplement coming, and Slaine (in its d20 incarnation) had plenty of them. So what actually defines an 'RPG in its own right' from another setting?

And of course, we are talking about a principle which could be used in future publications. So on the basis of what is debated here it might become applicable to any or all new settings developed by Mongoose.

 

[elgrin]

I'm another qualified yes.
I may take a slightly different view on this which runs, we all want this incarnation of our favourite system to be a success and run. That means dragging in the unfortunates who have not been lucky enough to have fallen under it's spell over the last 30 years. One way this will happen is by those with specialist interests, and not us Glorantha nuts, picking up the system in their own setting and running with it, thus broadening it's appeal. They will not do this (IMHO) if they suddenly realise that they also have to buy a set of rules called 'Runequest' to run e.g. EC variants.
As MS has stated that the rules will only appear where 'required' then I think we could hold off for a while and see if the strategy works.
Of course Mongoose could use this super new facility to produce 'with' and 'without' versions of rulesets. :wink:

 

[MongooseMatt]

Of course Mongoose could use this super new facility to produce 'with' and 'without' versions of rulesets. :wink:

Give us time

 

[vitalis6969]

Could you be a bit clearer here? Lankhmar has a supplement coming, and Slaine (in its d20 incarnation) had plenty of them. So what actually defines an 'RPG in its own right' from another setting?

I would imagine something with a different enough change to the core rules to be considered a different animal so to speak. Just as the creator of the Mongoose Elric rules was talking about Elric having a completely different feel, the balance of the law and chaos gods, etc...

Just a thought,

-V

 

[frogspawner]

I'm a 'no' on this one.

Elgrin's argument that it'll draw fans of other settings in to RQ has merit. But I think it's outweighed by the rules versioning problems that will undoubtedly arise (as per the 'MRQ 2nd printing' topic...).

I'm sure no-one wants us to get into the situation where people will have to buy the latest setting book, whether they're interested in it or not, ('Teletubbies, The RPG' or whatever) in order to make sure they have the latest rules. :wink:

 

[Rurik]

Dude, Teletubbies, the RPG would rock. I'd buy that rules or no rules.

Though I do think Tinky-Winky's bag is a straight rip off of D&D's Bag of Holding. :?

 

[Baron Meliadus]

Elgrin's argument that it'll draw fans of other settings in to RQ has merit. But I think it's outweighed by the rules versioning problems that will undoubtedly arise (as per the 'MRQ 2nd printing' topic...).

That's a very good point. 'Core rule'-less settings books can weather RQ system changes much better.

I would imagine something with a different enough change to the core rules to be considered a different animal so to speak. Just as the creator of the Mongoose Elric rules was talking about Elric having a completely different feel, the balance of the law and chaos gods, etc...

I think most settings are probably going to have their own unique magic/technology/etc rules, to preserve the flavor of the genre they come from. However, such things could still be kept separate from the generic core rules which normally cover skills, combat etc.

 

[gamesmeister]

What this does suggest (hindsight being such a wonderful thing) is that the rules within the core rulebook weren't actually core rules at all, but something much more than that. If the core rules to be included within the EC books are 50 pages, that implies that the core rules are indeed 50 pages, and not the 144 pages within the actual rulebook.

If the rules to be included within Hawkmoon will be the same as the rules to be included within Elric, Corum, etc, that suggests the need for a 50 page rulebook, which can then be supplemented with settings books. At the end of the day, that is mostly what's happened with Glorantha, where fans have supplemented the rulebook with various magic books, monster books, and source books. Whether a 50 page rulebook is commercially viable is down to Mongoose though.

To make it more cost effective, there is scope for a reorganisation of the rulebook and companion - spirit combat for example will presumably be the same in any setting, as would enchanting, travel, etc.

I suspect the primary rules differences between the settings will be their magic systems and creatures, and these would need to be removed from a core rulebook designed with the above in mind.

 

[Chardros The Reaper]

I would vote yes...if nothing else than in order to keep things simple. I don't want to tote around 3 or 4 books to play one game...that's why I've stopped GMing D&D. Besides, I'm sure there will be lots of tweaks and minor changes to the RQ system in both Hawkmoon and Elric. I foresee the RQ core rules becoming something like d20 (but in a good way) where the basic rules are modified slightly from setting to setting as would be appropriate.

 

[Baron Meliadus]

Looking at the Elric preview they have following five chapters listed which are probably the core rules which will be replicated in Hawkmoon too.

Character Creation
Creating a Young Kingdoms adventurer; full rules and guidance on generating characters for Elric of Melniboné games, using the RuneQuest engine.

Except for a few unique character professions, the majority of this chapter will probably be no different.

Skills
Full rules for utilizing and developing skills in the Young Kingdoms.

I doubt there will be much change there.

Equipment
Detailing currency, weapons, armour and adventuring gear required for survival in the world of Elric.

Possibly some extra lines describing Melnibonean plate armor and sea axes.

Combat
Full rules for melee and ranged combat.

I don't expect any differences in this one...

Adventuring
Details movement, fatigue, healing and other necessary aspects of adventuring in the Young Kingdoms.

...or this one either

The remaining six chapters seem to concern material unique to the Young Kingdoms.

 

[Trifletraxor]

With individual rules for these settings, could we maybe get a Glorantha specific rules and setting book too? Can't see why Glorantha should have generic rules if the other big settings don't...

SGL.

 

[Tal]

Hi guys,

Just to point out, we are not intending to do the rules in every setting (we haven't with Lankhmar and Slaine). Only those that are effectively RPGs in their own right, with their own line of supplements.

IMO that's the way it should be.

 

[atgxtg]

Hi guys,

Just to point out, we are not intending to do the rules in every setting (we haven't with Lankhmar and Slaine). Only those that are effectively RPGs in their own right, with their own line of supplements.

IMO that's the way it should be.

Indeed.

Of course, now I'm curious to see what differences these new settings will require. There might be some new ideas worth porting over to other settings.

 

[Quire]

Vive the Multiverse!

- Q