Regarding DD+## Damage

[Stargrove]

If I have a weapon that does 3DD+30 damage, I assume I would roll the 3D6, multiply that roll by 10 and then add 30 to that total.

However, there seems to also be floating around online, that you take the result of that roll multiplied by 10 and then the "+30" is also multiplied by 10 and then everything is added together.

My understanding is...
- 3DD+30 = (3D × 10) + 30
- Minimum: 60
- Maximum: 210

...should be different than...

- 3DD+3 = (3D × 10) + 3
-Minimum: 33
-Maximum: 183

 

[Limpin Legin]

I'm not sure I know of any weapon that does "xDD+##" damage. Only "xDD" weapons are in the books I've seen.

However, CRB says for Destructive Weapons the roll is multiplied by 10, not the total damage. That suggests "xDD+##" = (xD6 x 10) + ## and does NOT equal (xD6 + ##) x 10.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

1DD is basically a simplification of 10D.

1DD + Effect should be treated the same as 10D + Effect, hence no multiplication of Effect.

 

[andrewza]

Core rule page 78

A Destructive weapon multiplies the total rolled for Damage by 10.

So 1dd+1 rolling 3 will equal 4x10 or a total of 40

This does not even take in to account the effect so.


Just for example did a quack dual heavy gauss cannons burst firing rolling 12 to hit
2DD(average of 6)+2 auto 2, plus 4 effect for total of 160 damage AP10

 

[Arkathan]

3DD+30 would be a double barreled weapon, treated as a double turret.
A nine to hit and an eleven for damage would be 141 total damage.
11x10 +30 +1

If miswritten as 3dd+3, the whole thing would be multiplied by 10, since the second barrel can do no less than 30 on a hit.
(11+3)X10 +1

 

[CordwainerFish]

1DD is basically a simplification of 10D.

Except they have a very different probability distribution.

 

[Endie]

I'm not sure I know of any weapon that does "xDD+##" damage. Only "xDD" weapons are in the books I've seen.

However, CRB says for Destructive Weapons the roll is multiplied by 10, not the total damage. That suggests "xDD+##" = (xD6 x 10) + ## and does NOT equal (xD6 + ##) x 10.

I suppose that a spaceship weapon doing xD damage with a plus y to damage would, if fired at a human, do xDD+y damage. I'd use (x*D6)+y.

Similarly, a destructive weapon like the CCLS-Orbital Defence Missile, if used Kim Jong Un-style and pointed at a traitorous running dog of the capitalist oppressors, would do 3DD damage plus whatever the effect of the roll to hit. I'd say that is (3D6*10)+Effect.

To disagree with one thing, however: there is a bit of a difference difference however, between 1DD and 10D, though. While both will average 35 damage, 10D will almost always be very close to 35 damage: fine in battle dress*, deadly if unprotected. 1DD will be a very survivable 10 or a insta-kill 60 just as often as it is 30 or 40. 1DD is massively more swingy than 10D.

*Of course, lots of DD weapons have a whole bunch of AP as well.

 

[andrewza]

I suppose that a spaceship weapon doing xD damage with a plus y to damage would, if fired at a human, do xDD+y damage. I'd use (x*D6)+y.

Similarly, a destructive weapon like the CCLS-Orbital Defence Missile, if used Kim Jong Un-style and pointed at a traitorous running dog of the capitalist oppressors, would do 3DD damage plus whatever the effect of the roll to hit. I'd say that is (3D6*10)+Effect.

To disagree with one thing, however: there is a bit of a difference difference however, between 1DD and 10D, though. While both will average 35 damage, 10D will almost always be very close to 35 damage: fine in battle dress*, deadly if unprotected. 1DD will be a very survivable 10 or a insta-kill 60 just as often as it is 30 or 40. 1DD is massively more swingy than 10D.

*Of course, lots of DD weapons have a whole bunch of AP as well.

The thing is if you role 9 with a 10D weapon your lowest is now 11 but with a 1DD weapon your lowest is now 20 since you multiply the total damage rolled. So 1DD is swingy yes but on avarge does a lot more damage

 

[Sigtrygg]

10D follows a normal distribution, 1Dx10 is a linear distribution.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Except they have a very different probability distribution.

Sure, but that is how Mongoose sees it...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I suppose that a spaceship weapon doing xD damage with a plus y to damage would, if fired at a human, do xDD+y damage. I'd use (x*D6)+y.

Similarly, a destructive weapon like the CCLS-Orbital Defence Missile, if used Kim Jong Un-style and pointed at a traitorous running dog of the capitalist oppressors, would do 3DD damage plus whatever the effect of the roll to hit. I'd say that is (3D6*10)+Effect.

Spaceship Scale and Destructive are two different things.

Core'22, p78:
A Destructive weapon multiplies the total rolled for Damage by 10.

Core'22, p167:
Second, Spacecraft scale weapons cause a lot more damage. When Spacecraft weapons attack a Ground target, they multiply their damage by 10. So, for example, a beam laser that normally does 1D damage at Spacecraft scale will do 1D x 10 when shooting at a Ground target.

Spaceship Scale is ×10 on all the damage, hence 1D = ( 1D + Effect ) × 10 in Ground Scale.
Destructive is ×10 on the roll, hence 1DD = 1D×10 + Effect.


Correspondingly, a Destructive Ground Scale weapon firing at a Spacecraft Scale target does
Damage = ( 1D×10 + Effect ) / 10, round down.

 

[Stargrove]

I think this is going by the rules in the VHB2026 where the +# is added before the role gets multiplied.

However...

Looking at the Archangel Heavy Skyfighter (VHB2026) and the weapons is listed as 3DD+30, which, unlike the old VHB it does not state the bonus was already factored in (it probably was). So, it probably should be 3DD+3. My questions though is why? Each of the turrets it has are just one weapon and it says nothing about them being linked.

The Gecko All-Terrain Assault Vehicle (VHB2026) specifically lists "twin-linked" in its description...but it is the only vehicle stating that and yet many of them have a damage number with a +# after them. Some are also very confusing, like the ring mounts on the Destroyer (VHB2026) and the damage not making any sense.

The damage of 3DD+30 for the Titan turtle is another oddity as well. Nothing about linked and being massive should not add a +30 as the weapon is listed as only doing 3DD.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I thing this is going by the rules in the VHB2026 where the +# is added before the role gets multiplied.

However...

Looking at the Archangel Heavy Skyfighter (VHB2026) and the weapons is listed as 3DD+30, which, unlike the old VHB it does not state the bonus was already factored in (it probably was). So, it probably should be 3DD+3. My questions though is why? Each of the turrets it has are just one weapon and it says nothing about them being linked.

The Gecko All-Terrain Assault Vehicle (VHB2026) specifically lists "twin-linked" in its description...but it is the only vehicle stating that and yet many of them have a damage number with a +# after them. Some are also very confusing, like the ring mounts on the Destroyer (VHB2026) and the damage not making any sense.

The damage of 3DD+30 for the Titan turtle is another oddity as well. Nothing about linked and being massive should not add a +30 as the weapon is listed as only doing 3DD.

I’ll wager @Geir can answer this definitively.

 

[Condottiere]

Scaling does appear to come into it.

It continues with barbette at three, small bay at ten, medium bay at twenty, large bay at a hundred, and spinal mount at a thousand.

In theory, twenty two long rifle could, potentially, dent a spacecraft hull for one point of damage.

 

[Endie]

The thing is if you role 9 with a 10D weapon your lowest is now 11 but with a 1DD weapon your lowest is now 20 since you multiply the total damage rolled. So 1DD is swingy yes but on avarge does a lot more damage

I'm afraid that you don't understand probability.

 

[Arkathan]

I think this is going by the rules in the VHB2026 where the +# is added before the role gets multiplied.

However...

Looking at the Archangel Heavy Skyfighter (VHB2026) and the weapons is listed as 3DD+30, which, unlike the old VHB it does not state the bonus was already factored in (it probably was). So, it probably should be 3DD+3. My questions though is why? Each of the turrets it has are just one weapon and it says nothing about them being linked.

The Gecko All-Terrain Assault Vehicle (VHB2026) specifically lists "twin-linked" in its description...but it is the only vehicle stating that and yet many of them have a damage number with a +# after them. Some are also very confusing, like the ring mounts on the Destroyer (VHB2026) and the damage not making any sense.

The damage of 3DD+30 for the Titan turtle is another oddity as well. Nothing about linked and being massive should not add a +30 as the weapon is listed as only doing 3DD.

Linked Heavy Pulse Laser Guns. They act as a double turret, since they are fired together.
3DD for the first and Dice x10 (for DD) for the second linked weapon.

Note that there is an x2 at the end of the weapon listing. And there is only one gunner.
For the pilot to take one of the guns, it would have to be locked facing forward and fired at (at least) -2 for multiple actions. Then the gunner could independently fire the second weapon at 3DD. Edit: There is only one turret so disregard that last part.

 

[Stargrove]

Linked Heavy Pulse Laser Guns. They act as a double turret, since they are fired together.
3DD for the first and Dice x10 (for DD) for the second linked weapon.

Note that there is an x2 at the end of the weapon listing. And there is only one gunner.
For the pilot to take one of the guns, it would have to be locked facing forward and fired at (at least) -2 for multiple actions. Then the gunner could independently fire the second weapon at 3DD.

Only one vehicle in the book lists "linked" anywhere in their description.

The rules specifically state: "As long as space permits, multiple weapons can be attached to a single mount but they must be of the same type. This is called linking (or sometimes twin-linking, as weapons are often mounted in pairs).

Going by that, the weapons on the Archangel can't be linked because the two weapons are on two different mounts.

 

[Arkathan]

In order for the single gunner to fire both turrets, he has to link them.
If the ship's brain is doing the firing, the weapons are linked.

Edit: The design is one turret with 2 pulse lasers allowing remote gunners.
The x2 is on the lasers, not the turret.
The drawing may show two turrets, but the build is one turret. Remote gunner is enabled. The space allocated and the cost is the same either way.

 

[Stargrove]

In order for the single gunner to fire both turrets, he has to link them.
If the ship's brain is doing the firing, the weapons are linked.

Edit: The design is one turret with 2 pulse lasers allowing remote gunners.
The x2 is on the lasers, not the turret.
The drawing may show two turrets, but the build is one turret. Remote gunner is enabled. The space allocated and the cost is the same either way.

Sorry, but I the book says: "Turret: Dorsal, Pulse Laser Gun (heavy) [F6] x2"

The key being "Turret" (single) and "Gun" (single) and "x2" (2 of the single turrets with one gun each).

Even the picture shows two separate turrets.


Look, I am not trying to be a rules lawyer here or anything. Hell, I've been "the" GM for my various groups since I was a teenager back in the 80's and, like most GMs, have a strong dislike for rule lawyers. I would just like to get some clarification on the damage rules as written and not have to speculate about what unwritten capabilities may or may not exist.

 

[Arkathan]

It says turret, not turret x2. The x2 is after the installed weapons.
The design sheet for the Archangel is one turret, and that is why the spreadsheet reported the damage as a linked system... because it IS a linked system in a single turret. The spreadsheet would put Turret x2 and damage as 3DD if it were REALLY 2 turrets. (try it in the spreadsheet and you will see that. Edit: Actually, see below. I did it for you.)
My earlier statement on the pilot and gunner being able to pick a gun was incorrect, because I too was looking at the image... but the art is not reflective of the single turret as it was designated in the vehicle design spreadsheet for that vehicle.