Re-Enlistment Options

[Gruffty the Hiver]

OK, as per instructions from Gar, this thread is about working out (what appears to be) a minor tweak to re-enlistment in the draft/playtest rules for CharGen.

Mongoose Traveller Advencement Rules (from Playtest file):
Each career has an advancement roll.
You suffer a negative DM to Advancement rolls equal to the number of terms already spent in that career.
If you make a successful Advancement roll, then you move to the next rank and gain an extra roll on the Skills & Training Table.
You may only attempt to advance once per term.
If your result is 2 or less, then you cannot continue in this career after this term.
If you roll a natural 12, then you must continue in this career.

Review of the Re-Enlistment Process in Classic Traveller.

Classic Traveller:
1. LBB 1 Characters & Combat (1981 2ed) & Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium:
Throw the service/career re-enlistment number or higher on 2D (that's 2d6 for the n00bs ).
A throw result of less than the service/career re-enlistment number on 2D means re-enlistment has been denied & the character musters out.
A throw result of 12 means automatic re-enlistment for a further 4-year term.
No DMs are applicable on any of the above throws.
The re-enlistment throw must be made at the end of each term.

2. LBB 4 Mercenary:
As per 1., above, but inlcudes:
Army enlisted men and NCO's: DM +2.
Marine personnel who have been cross-trained in artillery or cavalry and announce their intention to enter that arm of service upon reenlistment: DM +1.

3. LBB 5 High Guard:
As per 1., above, but inlcudes:
Any Petty Officer (Rank E4+) or officer (Rank 01+): DM +1.

4. LBB 6 Scouts:
As per 1., above, but inlcudes:
A member of the Scout bureaucracy with ordinary Rank less than the number of terms served may not re-enlist.
Re-enlistment after the seventh term is prohibited except on a throw of 12 exactly.
(I stand corrected on my previous statement about there being no limits to the number of serves allowed to be served in Classic Traveller! )

5. LBB 7 Merchant Prince:
As per 1., above, but inlcudes:
If a commissioned merchant officer: DM +1.
No individual may re-enlist beyond the seventh term unless 12+ is rolled for re-enlistment.
(Ditto! )

I won't look at the Classic Traveller Alien Module CharGen rules here cos there's loads of changes that affect the above and it would take too long to research them all for this post.

 

[Mongoose Gar]

I had an idea last night that I haven't had time to test yet, but seems promising.

You roll for Promotion as normal, and the only modifier is the appropriate Characteristic. If you succeed, you advance in the career. On a natural 12, you have to stay on another term.

If you roll equal to less than the number of terms spent in this career, then you're out at the end of the term.

So, let's assume I've got a +0 DM to my rolls.
In term one, I'm always safe (I need to roll above a 1 on 2d6).
In term two, I'm out on a natural 2.
On term three, I'm on a 2 or 3.
On term four, I'm out on a 4 or less...

It would place a practical limit of about 8 terms in one career, which would fit nicely.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

My thoughts:

Each career has a Re-Enlistment throw.
The re-enlistment throw must be made at the end of each term.
You may only attempt to Re-Enlist at the end of a term.
You suffer a -DM to Re-Enlistment throws equal to the number of terms already served in that career.
If your Re-Enlistment throw result is 2 or less, you cannot continue in the career after this term.
If you roll a natural 12 (irrespective of the -DM equal to the number of terms already served), then you must continue in this career.
Re-enlistment after the seventh term is prohibited except on a throw of 12 exactly (irrespective of the -DM equal to the number of terms already served).

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Aaahhh.... Something like this, you mean? This is based on the Aging Table from LBB 1. Including the age column helps to give an idea of the relationship between the Re-Enlistment throw and how old (i.e. mentally/physically fit or frail) the character is at the time of the Re-Enlistment throw.

Term       Re-Enlist
No.   Age  Throw (2D)
 1    22    2+
 2    26    3+
 3    30    4+
 4    34    5+
 5    38    6+
 6    42    7+
 7    46    8+
 8    50    9+
 9    54   10+
10    58   11+
11    62   12+
12    66   13+
13    70   14+
14    74   15+

I think that would work, actually.......

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

I would still like to see the "re-enlist on a natural 12 on 2D" rule kept in, though.

Thought: the above table could be combined with the Aging Table...

...like this:...

Term       Re-Enlist  ------------AGING TABLE-----------
No.   Age  Throw        STR      DEX      END      INT
 1    22    2+           -        -        -        -
 2    26    3+           -        -        -        -
 3    30    4+           -        -        -        -
 4    34    5+        8+ (-1)  7+ (-1)  8+ (-1)     -
 5    38    6+        8+ (-1)  7+ (-1)  8+ (-1)     -
 6    42    7+        8+ (-1)  7+ (-1)  8+ (-1)     -
 7    46    8+        8+ (-1)  7+ (-1)  8+ (-1)     -
 8    50    9+        9+ (-1)  8+ (-1)  9+ (-1)     -
 9    54   10+        9+ (-1)  8+ (-1)  9+ (-1)     -
10    58   11+        9+ (-1)  8+ (-1)  9+ (-1)     -
11    62   12+        9+ (-1)  8+ (-1)  9+ (-1)     -
12    66   13+        9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-1)
13    70   14+        9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-1)
14    74   15+        9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-2)  9+ (-1)

                      EDU and SOC are not affected by aging.

 

[AKAramis]

CT had a 7 term limit, exceeded only by natural 12 reenlistment rolls.

Service beyond the seventh term is normally impossible, and retirement is mandatory for an individual who has completed a seventh term of service. However, persons who throw mandatory reenlistment must instead serve that additional term of service. It is theoretically possible for an individual to be required to serve ninth and even tenth terms under mandatory reenlistment.

Oh, and for the record, count me as one who is glad the commission and reenlistment rolls are gone.

 

[Allensh]

CT had a 7 term limit, exceeded only by natural 12 reenlistment rolls.

Service beyond the seventh term is normally impossible, and retirement is mandatory for an individual who has completed a seventh term of service. However, persons who throw mandatory reenlistment must instead serve that additional term of service. It is theoretically possible for an individual to be required to serve ninth and even tenth terms under mandatory reenlistment.

Oh, and for the record, count me as one who is glad the commission and reenlistment rolls are gone.

That makes two of us.

I like Mongoose Gar's suggestion.

Allen

 

[Allensh]

I had an idea last night that I haven't had time to test yet, but seems promising.

You roll for Promotion as normal, and the only modifier is the appropriate Characteristic. If you succeed, you advance in the career. On a natural 12, you have to stay on another term.

If you roll equal to less than the number of terms spent in this career, then you're out at the end of the term.

So, let's assume I've got a +0 DM to my rolls.
In term one, I'm always safe (I need to roll above a 1 on 2d6).
In term two, I'm out on a natural 2.
On term three, I'm on a 2 or 3.
On term four, I'm out on a 4 or less...

It would place a practical limit of about 8 terms in one career, which would fit nicely.

No more having to leave after 1 term? I would still keep it that you have to leave if you roll a natural 2..other than that, looks good

Allen

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

CT had a 7 term limit, exceeded only by natural 12 reenlistment rolls.

Service beyond the seventh term is normally impossible, and retirement is mandatory for an individual who has completed a seventh term of service. However, persons who throw mandatory reenlistment must instead serve that additional term of service. It is theoretically possible for an individual to be required to serve ninth and even tenth terms under mandatory reenlistment.

IMO this is one of those "organically evolving" rules. It looks to me that The Traveller Book ("TTB") simply consolidated the two instances of the "7 terms maximum" rule (which first appeared in LBBs 6 and 7) and applied it across the board to all careers/services in TTB.

Oh, and for the record, count me as one who is glad the commission and reenlistment rolls are gone.

It surprises me to read that from you, Aramis, but hey - each to their own

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

And, yes, I like Gar's concept, as described above.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

As for DMs under Gar's idea - I'm not actually sure that they're needed as they could/would over-complicate an elegant system.

 

[jlcatch]

I like it too, although I think both the 'out on natural 2' and 'forced reenlistment on natural 12' rules should always apply.

As outlined, you have a 97% chance of reenlisting for 2 terms, 87% for 3, 72% for 4, 52% for 5, 30% for 6, 13% for 7 and 4% for 8. If a natural 2 is an automatic fail, then these become 97% for 1 term, 94% for 2, 84% for 3, 70% for 4, 50% for 5, 29% for 6, 13% for 7 and 3% for 8.
All rounded to the nearest %.

I take it that the example means that char bonuses apply ?

If so, then a +1 pushes the first of these along by one term (97% after 3 terms, etc.) and the second becomes 97% for 1, 94% for 2, 91% for 3, 82% for 4, 68% for 5, 49% for 6, 28% for 7, 12% for 8 and 3% for 9.

Meaning, in short, that you have a good chance of rolling up a 20-year veteran, barring mishaps, irrespective of promotion.

Simple and effective, to my mind.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Having read peoples' ideas on this, I've tweaked the table I put together for Gar's re-enlistment idea slightly.

On this table, a natural 2 on 2D at the end of any term of service gets you the Grand Order of the Boot and a natural 12 on 2D at the end of any term of service means you've got to stay in for another term.

Term       Re-Enlist 
No.   Age  Throw (2D) 
 1    22    3+ 
 2    26    4+ 
 3    30    5+ 
 4    34    6+ 
 5    38    7+ 
 6    42    8+ 
 7    46    9+ 
 8    50   10+ 
 9    54   11+ 
10    58   12
11    62   12 
12    66   12 
13    70   12 
14    74   12

So basically the re-enlistment throw is terms of service+2 or higher on 2D up to term 9; characters can only stay in their service from terms 10+ by throwing a natural 12 on 2D.

....or is this over-complicating Gar's original idea? :?

 

[JimG]

If you roll equal to less than the number of terms spent in this career, then you're out at the end of the term.

Gar's idea serves to limit the time spent in a particular career, without limiting the chance for promotion. It looks clean and elegant to me.

Term       Re-Enlist 
No.   Age  Throw (2D) 
 1    22    3+ 
 2    26    4+ 
 3    30    5+ 
 4    34    6+ 
 5    38    7+ 
 6    42    8+ 
 7    46    9+ 
 8    50   10+ 
 9    54   11+ 
10    58   12
11    62   12 
12    66   12 
13    70   12 
14    74   12

One difference with this table is that it is showing an age based on total number of terms served, while Gar presented the rule as being based on the current career.

Another is that it should probably be 3+ for the second term, 4+ for the third, and so on.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Should the effects of Anagathics play a roll in this?

WHY would the military kick out someone after 7 terms if they were physically 18 years old, but with a lot more experience?

 

[Stormraven]

Should the effects of Anagathics play a roll in this?

WHY would the military kick out someone after 7 terms if they were physically 18 years old, but with a lot more experience?

Off the top of my head?

• The civilian government doesn't want 10 term officers, because that leads to dynastic thinking.
  
  The Nobles don't want 10 term officers, except rarely, because the loyalty of the troops is already heavily on the side of the officers - too long serving, and the officers are more of a threat. It's a balancing game, though.
  
  The Rank and File of the military doesn't want 10 term officers (or higher enlisted) because that limits their ability to advance.

 

[AKAramis]

Should the effects of Anagathics play a roll in this?

WHY would the military kick out someone after 7 terms if they were physically 18 years old, but with a lot more experience?

Because, in most cases, they will have 7 terms of bad habits built up anyway!

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

One difference with this table is that it is showing an age based on total number of terms served, while Gar presented the rule as being based on the current career.

Indeed, you are correct, Jim. I had forgotten to take into account characters that go on to have a second career.

 

[Oaty_bars]

I've been pondering something, say instead of "Re-Enlistment" in the same career, how about you Enlist in new onw (always seemed kinda dumb that everyone starts their gaming career as soon as they leave the career they trained in) so say you could have a guy who spent time in the army who was from the vallies and had a fine singing voice (thinking about the zulu movie right now lol) and was offered a job in performance, and left to pursue that career,

(okay joking above, but just say a ex-scout who becomes an agent, because he has the contacts and knows the area so well)

you should be able to go in to another career,

 

[AKAramis]

I've been pondering something, say instead of "Re-Enlistment" in the same career, how about you Enlist in new onw (always seemed kinda dumb that everyone starts their gaming career as soon as they leave the career they trained in) so say you could have a guy who spent time in the army who was from the vallies and had a fine singing voice (thinking about the zulu movie right now lol) and was offered a job in performance, and left to pursue that career,

(okay joking above, but just say a ex-scout who becomes an agent, because he has the contacts and knows the area so well)

you should be able to go in to another career,

MoTrav Draft 1 & two both allow this already, except for the other two subcareers in your current one....