Raven's Errata

[Raven Blackwell]

I think if you're gonna drop the Massive Damage rule, you may as well just play D&D. It's not really "returning to a D&D flavor" to not use it, because you may as well not use Dodge or Parry - it's just not Conan without the ability to get a lucky shot it and drop a werewolf in a single lucky blow.

I disagree that dropping the Massive Damage rule makes it just like D&D- weapon damages in Conan are lethal compared to the hit point per level. As for dropping Dodge/Parry- why? It makes more sense that it is hader to hit a more experienced person.

The primary reason that I dropped the Massive Damage rule is that it makes it too easy to kill high hit point mosters. In a recent battle,a Hunting Horr with 140 hp took a critical hit worth 72 hit points early in the battle. Now despite only losing a little over half it's hit points, it would require a Fort save of DC 44 to survive- something even a high Hit Dice creature like it would need a natural 20 to do. Now, this fight had been the result of a long investigation and chase. Simply killing with MD would be anti-climatic- IMHO players like it best if they feel they have earned their kill. Critical hits are IMO, the result of 'lucky strikes'. MD is just kinda a cop out that makes creatires with high hit points no longer a challenge. What's the point of high hit poitns if any ninny with a good critical can kill you no matter what your hit point total remaining is?

Also, MD violates my "Fear is Good" rule- that the game is better if the players feel threatened by their opponent. Make the game too easy and it's not a challenge and doesn't hold their attention.

For the trident, I'd make it a single handed weapon (like a short spear) but with a 19-20 threat range, x2 crit and the ability to add bonus to disarm and trip attacks. Tridents were used to stab folks, obviously, but a common practice was to snag an opponent's weapon in the prongs, give a twist to the trident, and yank the offending weapon out of the opponent's hand. The barbs aided in this, as with snaging ankles, straps, belts, etc. and forcing opponents' to buckle at the knee. They were'primarily a defensive weapon with offensive capailities, doubly difficult to fight against when the trident wielder was armed with another defensive weapon like a spiked gauntlet or, as is most anecdotally common, a weighted metal net.

I have plans for the Net- kinda of a uber whip in game stats. For trip/disarm attacks- I don't see how a trident is any better at doing it than a normal weapon. Gladiators trained with this style of fighting would likely have the Improved Disarm/Trip Feats, but Joe Schmoe with a Trident isn't going to able to use it as effectively.

As for the stats- the Trident was designed a little tongue in cheek. Note that the AP and critical are both '3'- a small pun on it's name. 8) It is designed as a counterpart in game stats to a War Sword. While most Swords have an Axe with the same damage but a different critical [19-20 x2 to x3] the War Sword does not- so I tossed the Trident in the gap. I made it 2d6 as opposed to 1d12 should someone else want to make a War Axe as well.

But these are just optional rules I use. Anyone else can use what works for them- even AP 1 claws. 8)

Raven

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Revised Rule

There sure are a lot of them

The unknown is even more frightening in larger members. When facing more than one of a single type of a creature that provokes a Terror of the Unknown check, for each time the number of creatures doubles add +2 to the DC of the Will Save needed. Thus two of the same creature would increase the DC by 2, four increase the DC +4; eight increase the DC by +6; sixteen increase it by +8, etc. Mixed groups of creatures that produce this effect must be rolled for separately per each type of creature.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

New Skill

Camouflage [Wis] Untrained Use possible

Class skill for Barbarian, Borderer, Nomad, Pirate and Thief

Camouflage is the art of concealing objects from view by the use of pigments, natural fauna and even building materials. Finding objects hidden this way require an opposed Spot or Search check.

Camouflage can beused to conceal living objects, but only so long as they stay motionless. Creatures who break camoflague must rely on their own Hide score to prevent discovery. Note that a person can use Camoflague both on themselves and other people as well.

Note that this skill, not Hide is used to conceal traps. It is not used to conceal objects on your person- that is a property fo Sleight of Hand.

Synergy: any person with five ranks of Survival has a +2 bonus to Camouflage

Any person with 5 ranks of Camouflage has a +2 to Hide checks, should they have at least a full minute to prepare themselves.

 

[Diabolus]

Why would a pirate get camouflage as a class skill I wonder? :wink:

 

[Yogah of Yag]

The Camouflage skill is pretty sweet! Thanks!

 

[Sutek]

It only needs to be a Class SKill for Borderer and maybe Barbarian, Raven. You want to have people be tempted to cross class to benefit from skills like this.

A Pirate making himself look like...erm...a fish? I don't get it...

lol

Also, the synergy should be for 5 ranks Knowledge (Nature) gain +2 Camouflage. See, you use camouflage, and if you botch it or move to reveal yourself, you have to resort to using your hide skill. Gaining a Hide bonus via a skill that supplants hiding unless you fail at Camouflage doesn't make sense.

You also need to address what it affects - what's the opposition. How far away is it effective. Right now it's jsut like Hide, but a different skill...for some reason. There has to be a DC issue with finding the proper implements. Those implements can only provode so muc camo at such and such quality based on the rolls. None of that is covered in your write-up.

I could see this being Craft (blind or hide) just easily by the way you have it written. It's too skeletal. Besides, shouldn't it provide or generate Concealment?

In regards to the Numbers thing, I like it, but make it +5 per multiple of the PC party for non-Terror causers (so with 4 PCs, 8 would be a 10+ save. 20 would be a 25+) and +2 per Terror causer. Still seems kind of easy to pass the way you have it.

As far as MD, what was the DR and FORT save for that creature? If ther ewere 74 pts of damage dealt, that means the MD DC should have been 10+36=46. But if the crit was 74, the Creature's DR should ahve reduced it. No?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Why would a pirate get camouflage as a class skill I wonder? :wink:

I have a lot of Pirates acting as smugglers, so the skill is for hiding cargos from the prying eyes of customs officials. 8) Sort of a hold over from my old WEG Star Wars days.....

 

[Raven Blackwell]

It only needs to be a Class SKill for Borderer and maybe Barbarian, Raven. You want to have people be tempted to cross class to benefit from skills like this.

Barbarians and Nomads would use it to place hidden caches of their supplies along the landscape. It should also be a class skill for Bandits. I'll make that change.

A Pirate making himself look like...erm...a fish? I don't get it...

I explain this in the post above this one.

Also, the synergy should be for 5 ranks Knowledge (Nature) gain +2 Camouflage. See, you use camouflage, and if you botch it or move to reveal yourself, you have to resort to using your hide skill. Gaining a Hide bonus via a skill that supplants hiding unless you fail at Camouflage doesn't make sense.

You also need to address what it affects - what's the opposition. How far away is it effective. Right now it's jsut like Hide, but a different skill...for some reason. There has to be a DC issue with finding the proper implements. Those implements can only provode so muc camo at such and such quality based on the rolls. None of that is covered in your write-up.

The break down is this- Camouflage is the skills used to hide objects not people. That's why it is the skill used to conceal traps as I mentioned. People can be hidden like objects of course- so long as they don't move. The skills that oppose it are Spot and Search, though I'd likely give a +5 DC for using the Spot skill since the purpose of Camouflage is to prevent being spotted by visual means. As for materials you are right- but I usually say no materials, no Camouflage possible. Using it for your synergy bonus to Hide only requires mud, dust or charcoal for the purposes of applying it to your skin. As for Knowledge [nature] vs. Survival I'd say you can get the synergy bonus for either skill but not both.

I could see this being Craft (blind or hide) just easily by the way you have it written. It's too skeletal. Besides, shouldn't it provide or generate Concealment?

Correct- it should. Perhaps it can increase the concealment bonus of a area by one level with a DC 10 check and continue to increase the level of concealment every 5 points the character rolls beyond that?

In regards to the Numbers thing, I like it, but make it +5 per multiple of the PC party for non-Terror causers (so with 4 PCs, 8 would be a 10+ save. 20 would be a 25+) and +2 per Terror causer. Still seems kind of easy to pass the way you have it.

I've noticed that after fifth level Terror becomes embarrasingly easy for a character to overcome. It's sole purpose to me seems to be the weed out the low level NPCs. The purposeof the rule wasn't to make it that much harder, but to make it possible to roll Terror once rather than for each creature.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

As far as MD, what was the DR and FORT save for that creature? If ther ewere 74 pts of damage dealt, that means the MD DC should have been 10+36=46. But if the crit was 74, the Creature's DR should ahve reduced it. No?

The 72 hit points was after DR was already subtracted. It was dealt by the 24 STR Cimmerian I've discussed before. The creatures Fort Save was +16, which is still too low to make a succesful save unless you rule that a natural 20 is an automatic success which still only gives a 5% chance for survival. Too easy a kill in my eyes.

 

[Sutek]

Nat 20 is always and auto success, but I see your point.

One house rule I developed was that if the creature's FORT save was artificially higer than mere CON bonus called for, then obviously something was up and that creature was tougher. I'd then add the FORT save to the MD threshhold.

Thus a creature with a CON +3 and a FORT save +11 has some hocus-pocus making them more resilient than mere CON would suggest. They'd therefore have a MD threshhold of 31. Much harder to kill in one blow.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

After taking people’s advice to clean up the “Camouflage” skill I developed here is the result-


Revised Skill

Conceal
[was “Camouflage”]
Class Skill for Bandit, Barbarian, Borderer, Nomad, Pirate and Thief
Wis skill; Untrained use possible

This skill represents the ability of a character to hide objects from the view of others. It does not allow a person to hide themselves- that is the province of the Hide skill- nor does it measure the ability to hide an object on their person- that is the province of the Sleight of Hand skill. Instead the skill allow a person to use natural foliage, debris or even construction materials to conceal an object so that it more difficult to find by use of the Spot or Search skill. Barbarians, Borderers and Nomads use this skill to conceal caches of food and equipment from the attentions of both animals and rival tribes, while Bandits, Pirates and Thieves use the ability to Conceal their ill-gotten gains from prying eyes. Note that this skill is used to set the DC of discovering Concealed traps as well.

The smaller the object being concealed, the easier it is do so. Concealing Fine sized objects gives a +4 bonus to the Conceal roll; Diminutive object a +2 bonus; Tiny a +1 bonus. Larger targets are harder to conceal. Hiding a Medium sized objects give a –1 penalty to the Conceal roll, Large objects a –2 penalty and Huge objects a –4 penalty. Concealing Gargantuan and Colossal objects would be a work of engineering but is it was done they gain a –6 and a –8 penalty to the Conceal rolls respectively.

Characters attempting to discover objects that have been Concealed must make an opposed Spot check or Search check depending on what manner the character is trying to discover it. When attempting to Spot a Concealed object for each 10 feet between the Concealed object and the Spotting character, the DC set by the Concealing character’s opposing roll gains a + 1 bonus. Searching characters have no such penalty but must be in the same square(s) as the object is in order to discover it- otherwise they automatically fail. Searching characters may Take 10 or 20 to discover Concealed objects while Spotting characters may not.

Synergy: A character with five ranks in Hide gains a +2 synergy bonus to all Conceal checks.

A character with five ranks of Conceal gains a +2 synergy bonus to all Sleight of Hand checks to hide an object on their person.

 

[Sutek]

Why not keep the size values equivalent to DEF values (pg 15) but add something about terrain density or available cover. You're still assuming that there's enough stuff to properly conceal the object, and "tiny" is like...something you can put in the palm of your hand. I've spent hours looking for my car keys and they weren't even concealed deliberately.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Conceal is based around concealing a Small object. Concealing a man sized [Medium] object is a lot of work- just ask anyone who's had to hide a body. 8) Concealing smaller objects is more natural use of skill. As for Terrain, it is to be expected in the use of the skill that the Concealing charcter would use existing terrain to their advantage.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

High Lord Dee contacted me via e-mail. Since I think his post is relevant to the discussion I;ve posted it here,

I do like the skills and will use them. However, I will add a synergy the affect the conceal. If the character has 5 or more ranks in slight of hand, I will give a +2 bonus on conceal.

Since Conceal is a skill designed to hide object of any size and anywhere and SoH was designed to work only with small objects that the reverse- the listed synergy Conceal gives SoH- was more appropiate. But feel free to do as you wish. Unlike the majority of the poeple on theboard, I encourage the use of house rules. 8)

 

[GimpCowKing]

heres an idea i was wondering about for a time, first as a joke to get a rise out of my role playing crew, then seriously; a feat called eating masterey, or somthing akin

the whole idea that your character has eaten quite a bit in his day and is a sort of connisuer (spelled horribly wrong, i know) and due to his eating habits is probably quite rotund

the game effect:
same requirements as sleep mastery
is able to eat twice as much as another person of his size without flinching, but can live off his own, er, "stores" shall we say, or knows how to manage his diet allowing him to only need to eat one full meal per day without taking penalty

id also suggest a +2 fort bonus against things going into that iron box he calls a stomach and perhaps some kind of hinderance penalty, like a -2 to reflexes, or a -1 to dodge DV and when writing up player description, add a couple extra pounds

this would make an excent companion to nobles, that way everyone knows your loaded, or a theif, no one would suspect a pudgy thief -coughHOBBITS-

any suggestions/opinions/beliefs?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Oi!

 

[Sven]

I like the trident idea.

May I add another suggestion:

Knowledge is Power.

Usually a scholar can make a special knowledge check with a bonus of his scholar levels + his Int bonus.

For each knowledge skill with five or more ranks he gets an extra +1 synergy bonus to this check.

The Feat Knowledgeable also applies to this special knowledge check.

 

[geordiekimbo]

Barbarians, Borderers and Nomads use this skill to conceal caches of food and equipment from the attentions of both animals and rival tribes, while Bandits, Pirates and Thieves use the ability to Conceal their ill-gotten gains from prying eyes.

I think a Soldier might also get Conceal as a class skill. It seems to me that a soldier could hide trenches, siege engines, ammunition caches from the enemy. In some cases he may even have to hide his own looted treasures from his own army.

I think the synergy bonuses are sound. I like the idea of the skill

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I think a Soldier might also get Conceal as a class skill. It seems to me that a soldier could hide trenches, siege engines, ammunition caches from the enemy. In some cases he may even have to hide his own looted treasures from his own army.

Hmm....I don't know. A Soldier could buy these with their bonus skill points from their Int score. After all it's not a Soldier's job to provide much more than muscle to that sort of thing. Guerrillas [sp?] [Soldier/Thief multiclass] or Scouts [Soldier/Borderer multiclass] would be more prone to that sort of thing and it's a class skill for them.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I like the trident idea.

May I add another suggestion:

Knowledge is Power.

I call it Uncanny Knowledge. I just like the sound of it better. 8) See "Raven's Rules for Sorcery v1.1' somewhere else on this forum for more details....

Usually a scholar can make a special knowledge check with a bonus of his scholar levels + his Int bonus.

For each knowledge skill with five or more ranks he gets an extra +1 synergy bonus to this check.

I'd say only if the skill applied to the information desired. Five ranks of Knowledge [nobility] ain't going to help a Scholar figure out how a Archeronan artefact works....

The Feat Knowledgeable also applies to this special knowledge check.

Agreed.