Ranger ships

EricRoss

Mongoose
I was looking in the Minbari Federation factbook and it occured to me that the Anla'shok use ships other than the White Star for their duties, both before and after the Shadow War. I would point out the following facts to support this: Lenier serves on a vessel with as small starfighter compliment (not a White Star) the 'Legend of the Rangers' special shows three different ship classes, two are supposed to be existing Minbari designs. This said I began to wonder what Minbari ships the Anla'shok would use. I would think that they would not be the major warships. Most do not carry fighters, but a few would. the Anla'shok would have relitively small, fast ships. I have come up with the following vessels as possible Anla'shok ships (and their main duties within an Anla'shok battlegroup):
1) Tinashi (heaviest combat vessel)
2) Tigara attack cruiser (picket and fighter support)
3) Torotha assault frigate (combat support/scout)
4) White Star (combat and scout)

a 'typical' Anla'shok battlegroup could be composed of the following:

1 Tinashi;
4 Tigara;
2 Torotha;
2 White Star.

while it would be very rare to see a battlegroup together (it would be a terrifying sight to any lesser race), any or all of the above vessels could easily operate independantly or in small groups to fulfill information gathering and other missions. What do you all think?
 
EricRoss said:
Lenier serves on a vessel with as small starfighter compliment (not a White Star)

Erm, that was a Whitestar...

EricRoss said:
the 'Legend of the Rangers' special shows three different ship classes, two are supposed to be existing Minbari designs.

Only the Liandra is a stated to be an "older" design, and is twenty years old. The Emphifli (I think that's the spelling) we know nothing about, but its control technology looks more modern than the Liandra's.

The Valen looks like take one on the EA/Minbari/IA collaboration with regards the Whitestar "Destroyer" project.

EricRoss said:
This said I began to wonder what Minbari ships the Anla'shok would use. I would think that they would not be the major warships. Most do not carry fighters, but a few would. the Anla'shok would have relitively small, fast ships. I have come up with the following vessels as possible Anla'shok ships (and their main duties within an Anla'shok battlegroup):
1) Tinashi (heaviest combat vessel)
2) Tigara attack cruiser (picket and fighter support)
3) Torotha assault frigate (combat support/scout)
4) White Star (combat and scout)

Of these, I'd say these would only be available in the ISA era. If you go back to "In the Beginning", the Anla'Shok are a declining force in the Minbari Federation, very under resourced. The ships they have available at that time will be the likes of the Liandra and not much else.

Before the ISA era, they wouldn't require fighters or heavy combat vessels - they aren't a police force then, but a "secret service". The Torotha however is exactly the kind of ship they'd secure for certain operations (atmospheric and landing capable, plus designed for tropp insertions).

In the ISA era we've got another problem. Funding. The Minbari don't want to pay for arming the Anla'Shok, which presumably extends to supplying "surplus" ships to them.

However, you've missed a ship off your list, and I suspect it's because August didn't include it in the Minbari source book from the AOG original source (probably oversight I'd say, as it wasn't listed in the normal places, but in the Raiders' supplement).

The Shaveen Patrol Cutter is pretty much a non Vorlon tech Whitestar precusor, used for police and customs' work.

It's pretty much a shoe-in for Anla'Shok duty and available 2254 and beyond.
 
I can't wait until the "Ranger" book is out!!!!! :twisted:
By the way....................When is the "Ranger" book
coming out?
 
Only the Liandra is a stated to be an "older" design, and is twenty years old.
IIRC the Ship is twenty years old, the design seems older still - since it's used as small patrol ship, incapable of mounting the good stuff in the minbari arsenal according to JMS.

The Emphifli (I think that's the spelling) we know nothing about, but its control technology looks more modern than the Liandra's.
Here we have a great candidate for a Anla-shok ship IMO. It does look a lot like "the little brother of the Victory-class", and may have been purpose-built for the IA-era rangers...

The Valen looks like take one on the EA/Minbari/IA collaboration with regards the Whitestar "Destroyer" project.
Actually it looks like an EA/Minbari collaboration made by designers that failed the test to be allowed to work on the Victory class. Perhaps even an collaboration by the whole IA (complete with Drazi committees)... :wink:
Still, it would be another perfect candidate for a IA ranger ship.

Of these, I'd say these would only be available in the ISA era.
If at all!
Remember the history of the Anla-shok:

Valen's time: elite fighting force, have access to the best of Minbari tech.

...then they start to decline, as their support is slowly dismatled by the warrior caste...

ItB time: severely lacking in support from clans and council, seen as useless buch of people living in the past. Will be hard pressed to get more then a few aging patrol crafts (the Liandra was built for them during that time - that's the kind of ship they had back then)

Post-EA/Minbari War time: finally the still minbari-only Anla-shok are starting to get support from the religious caste - covertly, but they do get it. Start of the WhiteStar project with Vorlon help.

B5-era time: Sinclair takes over the Anla-shok, and opens them to humans. They still get only covert support by the religious caste, but by now that support is building the WhiteStar fleet. Remember, the Minbari ships seen in the Shadow war were crewed by Worker and Religious caste, not Rangers!

IA-era time: Now the rangers are open to all IA races. They do have the WhiteStars, and at least a few Nial fighters for training... but since we saw NO Nials in their battles against the Centauri in S-5 we can suspect they do not have any combat carriers and enough fighters for battlefield use.
Furthermore, why in hell should they have free access to Minbari ships???
Would the Minbari sell their tech to the IA, where Narn and Drazi crewmembers might learn from it? Or would they rather give the IA outdated (like the Liandra) or purpose-built (with the best stuff kept back for their own use, like the Valen and maybe the Emphili) ships? I think the latter has it - after all, the IA can call upon Minbari Federation forces (minbari-crewed) if the need arises. (and look at real life - would the US sell it's best and top secret stealth fighter planes to the UN, to be crewed and maintained by people they don't know or control, or would they keep them, at most lend them to the UN for specific missions - under US control with US crew of course; and sell only old stuff like F-16's etc.?)

And also remember - the Rangers are not supposed to be an army - not officially at least; officially they're supposed to be a "police force". That's why Sheridan and Delenn had to build the two Victory-class ships in such secrecy, because if the IA races would have heard about them, they'd all have screamed bloody murder (re-watch the discussions about the "WhiteStar destroyer project" in S-5 and in "ACtA"). Only after the shock of the Drakh attack (and the rebuilding of the destroyed shipyards) can the Rangers get heavier metal without rioting among the IA members (because then it should be clear even to the most stobborn and paranoid aliens that the IA does need a bigger stick to defend them too)

So, I'd say, a "Ranger" force should have only "ranger-approved" designs (WhiteStars, Liandra-like patrol cutters, Emphili-like frigates, Valen-like diplomatic transports/carriers and after 2275 or so, Victory-like capital ships and Blue-Star class gunboats), however it should have the option to include up to 75% "allied forces" taken from any IA member...

The Torotha however is exactly the kind of ship they'd secure for certain operations (atmospheric and landing capable, plus designed for tropp insertions).
Not so - still too big. Remember, it's an troop ship, WhiteStar sized. And as you rightly wrote, back then they're a bunch of spies, not grunts. So they'd at most have small but very stealthy transports, something like a big shuttle (basically the Liandra with less guns but more stealth gear)

The Shaveen Patrol Cutter is pretty much a non Vorlon tech Whitestar precusor, used for police and customs' work.
Perhaps... I still can't see the Minbari give out much of their tech where other races can play with it, but an few old Shaveen, with some tech removed...
 
frobisher said:
EricRoss said:
Lenier serves on a vessel with as small starfighter compliment (not a White Star)

Erm, that was a Whitestar...

I will have to wait untill I can get ahol of the Ranger book to see if there are any varients of the White Star that carry fighters. I do know for certain that Lenier was in a fighter. check out this link:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/103.html
 
and this link will take you to the page for Legend of the Rangers.

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/117.html

Under the JMS Speaks area of the page it gets into the two Ranger ships in the show. it says a few things about both ships:
"The Liandra is a Ranger ship...It is also, by design, a small, fast (crew of maybe 20) patrol ship designed to go on the edge, it's not meant to go out there and pulverize fleets."

and

"Why were the raiders able to hurt the Enfali?
Even a lion can be brought down by a pack of smaller predators. The Enfalli was alone and the pursuit was a long one, and they just kept taking hit after hit. "

which would indicate that it is a sizable vessel.
 
EricRoss said:
frobisher said:
EricRoss said:
Lenier serves on a vessel with as small starfighter compliment (not a White Star)

Erm, that was a Whitestar...

I will have to wait untill I can get ahol of the Ranger book to see if there are any varients of the White Star that carry fighters. I do know for certain that Lenier was in a fighter. check out this link:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/103.html

He was in a fighter and the Rangers book has a few variants of the Whitestar, including at least one (can't remember them all off the top of my head) that carries fighters.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
He was in a fighter and the Rangers book has a few variants of the Whitestar, including at least one (can't remember them all off the top of my head) that carries fighters.

Though, by all accounts (not got my copy yet) the particular "variant" representing the Maria isn't in there

At a rough guess though, provided it is not to be used as anything other than a casual carrier, you can forfit one shuttle space in the hanger, only carry a flyer in the other and you can cram three nials into the hanger.

The hanger space on a Whitestar is clearly big enough to contain an EA atmospheric shuttle, which is quite big so there is wriggle room in there, just not for combat launches.
 
Had a quick flick through the Rangers book at my local FLGS this morning, every variant of the WS except the original carries at least one fighter (poor WSC-2 just gets one).

[Digs out own copy]

Auxiliary craft in variants:

WSC-1 (Original) 2 Flyers
WSC-2 (Upgrade) 1 Nial/Shial 2 Flyers
WSC-A (Carrier) 24 Nial/Shial 6 Flyers/Shuttles (Any Minbari or EA type)
& 2 WSC-L (Special bay can only hold these craft)
WSC-L (Superheavy Fighter Variant)) None (It is an auxiliary craft)
WSC-O (Command) 12 Nial/Shial 2 Flyers & 1 WSC-L (External mount, no hangar)

Whilst the Maria is not accurately represented here, it could easily have been a WSC-O (may favoured option) or a WSC-A before the development and fittings of the WSC-L.

Not saying it is mind, just presenting an option.

LBH
 
On a further look the Rangers book also has stats for the Fanir Ranger Flyer, Shial fighter and lots and lots of other vehicles.

I really need to find some time to sit down and read this book properly.

LBH
 
just got the Ranger book and found out that at one point or another every ship I listed was used by the Anla'skok :twisted:
 
lastbesthope said:
On a further look the Rangers book also has stats for the Fanir Ranger Flyer
LBH

A bit doubtful about that one.

Check out the number of passengers it can carry!?
 
crizh said:
lastbesthope said:
On a further look the Rangers book also has stats for the Fanir Ranger Flyer
LBH

A bit doubtful about that one.

Check out the number of passengers it can carry!?
30, hmmm. Seems like a bit much given that the standard flyer has listed 1 pilot/passenger.

Maybe a typo and it should be 3?

LBH
 
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