Ramscoops

[cometyo]

Hello all,

I have a quick question about ramscoops:

High Guard states that the bulkiness of ramscoop collectors prevents ships from atmospheric re-entry without damaging the ramscoops. Therefore, ships equipped with ramscoops are rarely streamlined.

Let's say I wanted to maximize the fueling options for a vessel. Could a ramscoop-equipped vessel skim a gas giant (either with fuel scoops or with the ramscoops) without damaging the ramscoops in addition to scooping up hydrogen while maneuvering through normal space.

 

[Condottiere]

Large sections of the hull consist of bands and strips that change the hull’s overall shape, making the ship have the same outline as any other ship of the same tonnage, hull configuration, hull options and external systems, including mimicry of attached modules, although these are non-functional. Other identification features such as the pattern of reactor and drive emissions can likewise be adjusted to enhance the deception. At the Referee's option, this may be limited to ships of the same general shape: a long and thin ship cannot mimic a box-shaped ship and vice versa. Reconfiguration takes one space combat round, during which the ship cannot fire weapons, dock or launch other ships or operate sensors. Any sensor close enough to achieve Full detail can see through the disguise but by then the ship is well within weapons range. The primary users of this hull option are pirates and Q-ships that want to pretend to be something else. This is also useful when landing in cargo or docking bays of unusual shape or size. All weapons, not just turrets, on such a ship have pop-up mountings at no additional cost.


In theory, an adjustable hull could reconfigure the ramscoops internally.

 

[cometyo]

Thanks for your response. I was thinking about using an adjustable hull but was wondering if the rules suggested that "cannot perform atmospheric re-entry" applies to skimming a gas giant's upper atmosphere. In other words, is a ramscooped ship, for practical purposes, "unstreamlined" and can only operate in vacuum.

 

[Condottiere]

To be fair, someone else pointed this out originally.

 

[Hardwire]

With Ramscoops there are 3 different versions in 4 different books. There should be the ability to have the ranscoops as pop-ups and or enclose them with adjustable hulls. This is being discussed un the feedback section.

 

[rinku]

Potentially you could have ramscoop carried craft that tow the streamlined main ship. Attach them on pylons in pairs or threes.

But I would think that streamlined carried craft that scoop gas giants would be the more efficient solution.

However, just thought of something.

Ramscoops are designed to collect interplanetary or interstellar Hydrogen, which is far, far more rarified than the density of Hydrogen in the near vicinity of a Gas Giant.

The High Guard entry appears to be assuming interplanetary space, since by default the ship would be operating from mainworld to mainworld and most often be in the hab zones. So it may already be accounting for scooping the far extreme upper atmospheres of planets (not just gas giants. Earth loses hydrogen constantly).

I'm not sure on the figures, but it is a thing that the interplanetary hydrogen density is a lot less than the interstellar one, because the heliosphere acts as a magnetic bubble shield.

And I may have muddied my point, but I think that any ramscoop ship should be able to gather a bit faster near a gas giant than otherwise, without modification or needing to descend to the atmosphere proper. Unless magnetic effects prevent it, I guess.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Or put the ram scoop (and optionally fuel tanks) on a breakaway hull. Separate the cargo hull which lands and does trade while the scoop hull is off scooping fuel.

 

[rinku]

The description is a bit incomplete too. It should address thrust values and "active maneuvering" is a bit vague - high *velocity* is required to scoop, but active thrust shouldn't be needed

 

[Condottiere]

Minimum factor/one acceleration, if you prefer.

Considering hydrogen dense source leaks, harvest yields should vary.

 

[rinku]

I mean... putting the ship into a highly elliptical orbit around a hydrogen source should give a nice combination of high velocity at aphelion while deeper in the hydrogen zone.

 

[Condottiere]

The problem with breakaways is the cost, but probably worth it with Collectors.

You either go skinny dipping or snorting, not both.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

The problem with breakaways is the cost, but probably worth it with Collectors.

You either go skinny dipping or snorting, not both.

The benefit with both ram scoops and collectors is the "fuelling" takes place at the same time as the landing and trading. Therefore you make more trading trips/year and more profits.

 

[Fweeba]

I'm sort of surprised at the implication that M-drive equipped ships suffer from re-entry stress at all. I'd have thought standard procedure would be to slow down from orbital velocity outside of the atmosphere then just maintain a safe speed down to the surface, since you've got arbitrary amounts of delta-V to play with.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'm sort of surprised at the implication that M-drive equipped ships suffer from re-entry stress at all. I'd have thought standard procedure would be to slow down from orbital velocity outside of the atmosphere then just maintain a safe speed down to the surface, since you've got arbitrary amounts of delta-V to play with.

This.

 

[Sigtrygg]

If you are in orbit of Earth you are moving at ~7km/s.

If you use your m-drive to slow your orbital velocity you immediately change your orbit, you start "falling" toward the ground...

the question is by how much can you reduce your orbital velocity before you hit the atmosphere.

If you have T5 lifters, which are not part of MgT but are part of the "MgT" SOM - are they Third Imperium canon or not? - then you could remain at any altitude while reducing your orbital velocity and then drop down at a sedate speed.

 

[Hardwire]

In The Spinward Extents Under primitive Tech it mentions Lifters, so I am surprised that it isn't defined anywhere else.

"Primitive spacecraft without artificial gravity, lifter support, advanced environmental controls or structural support for high gravity maneuvers are not only cheaper ....."

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

If you are in orbit of Earth you are moving at ~7km/s.

If you use your m-drive to slow your orbital velocity you immediately change your orbit, you start "falling" toward the ground...

the question is by how much can you reduce your orbital velocity before you hit the atmosphere.

If you have T5 lifters, which are not part of MgT but are part of the "MgT" SOM - are they Third Imperium canon or not? - then you could remain at any altitude while reducing your orbital velocity and then drop down at a sedate speed.

Angle your thrust to compensate for fall. Tail landers are good for this. Too bad they are not common designs.

I'll have to look at shape changing ships. I'm working on a 600 ton trader with close hull (and aerofins) and M-Drive in side mounted pods, let them angle while maintaining ship attitude for landing and it can land slowly after matching the planets wind speeds at a given altitude.

 

[Condottiere]

Artificial gravity tiling eliminates the need for tail sitters.

High Guard is pretty clear that if you have a manoeuvre drive, atmospheric reentry is a piece of cake.

Because I like cutting corners, you only need tailsitters when equipped thus, when you don't bother installing gravity tiles.