[Quick Request] Daily Wages!
- Thread starter Kilgs
- Start date
A starship gunner earns 2,000 Credits per month, plus room and board.
If he works 40 hours per week / 160 hours per month, this amounts to
a steady income of 12.5 Credits per hour. Temporary jobs without room
and board would probably earn quite a bit more per hour, so I think that
somewhere between 15 Credits per hour / 120 Credits per day at the low
end and 50 Credits per hour / 400 Credits per day at the high end of the
scale could be acceptable.
If he works 40 hours per week / 160 hours per month, this amounts to
a steady income of 12.5 Credits per hour. Temporary jobs without room
and board would probably earn quite a bit more per hour, so I think that
somewhere between 15 Credits per hour / 120 Credits per day at the low
end and 50 Credits per hour / 400 Credits per day at the high end of the
scale could be acceptable.
Nice analysis, rust - might add that a gunner is a skilled position...
So Kilgs, I'd seperate the pay into skilled verus unskilled. And maybe add monies for higher skills...
So Kilgs, I'd seperate the pay into skilled verus unskilled. And maybe add monies for higher skills...
- Unskilled.........Cr 10
Level 0/1.........Cr 15
Level 2............Cr 25
Level 3............Cr 50
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Yes, room and board is technically included on a starship job. Yes, in most of our games Travellers ships often don't have a home port and Travellers are loners and have no families to support. Should this be considered typical and thus no compensation is needed for permanent housing? Do the cruise ship crews and oil rig workers of today not get paid enough to support their families?
Take into consideration that at 50cr/hr there would be little incentive to ever take a 'regular' job let alone a job on a ship. In just one six day week of 10 hour days you've made 3000cr! (for skill level 3)
I'm jumping ship and chasing the real money!
Take into consideration that at 50cr/hr there would be little incentive to ever take a 'regular' job let alone a job on a ship. In just one six day week of 10 hour days you've made 3000cr! (for skill level 3)
I'm jumping ship and chasing the real money!
Well, Kilgs asked for the wages for temporary jobs.CosmicGamer said:
At least over here such jobs pay rather well per hour or day, even much
better than most comparable steady jobs, but there is a considerable risk
that one has earned less than with a steady job at the end of the month,
because some days people just do not need and call for the services of a
labourer, electrician or whatever.
To give a real world example: If I take my car to the nearby garage to
have a problem fixed, I have to pay at least 80,- Euro per hour for the
work alone. This sounds as if it could make the garage owner a wealthy
man, but he has to deal with the fact that there are many hours per week
when there is no car to fix, and in the end he could be better off with a
steady job at a car factory with a significantly lower wage per hour.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Rust, I disagree and agree with you.
You mention wages but give an example that is the the cost to the consumer. The mechanic in the garage, the receptionist, the manager, all get wages that are much less.
I think I understand what your getting at though.
Problem is we are covering a lot of territory. From an unskilled day laborer to a highly skilled electrician.
You mention wages but give an example that is the the cost to the consumer. The mechanic in the garage, the receptionist, the manager, all get wages that are much less.
I think I understand what your getting at though.
Problem is we are covering a lot of territory. From an unskilled day laborer to a highly skilled electrician.
The wages in Traveller are ... useless ... as they bear no relation to the likely cost of the goods based on actual productivity at known Tech Levels (i.e. real world ones) and attempt to compare wages across TLs, which, since you are comparing different TLs which, theoretically, should represent different levels of productivity, is not only meaningless, but impossible anyway :shock: :? :wink:
Like, how do you compare a TL2 labourer (Medieval, say), who was paid, in good times, barely enough to survive ... that is, to buy food (around 60-70% of their daily wage went on food) ... to a TL8 (here and now industrialised economy "labourer") who comes from a society where (at least here in Oz, anyway), they need to spend less than 5% of their daily wage on food. :shock: 8) :wink:
Short answer: you simply can't. No ifs. No ands. No buts. :shock:
Attempts to do so will fail, if examined even perfunctorily, and will merely give you a migraine for your efforts. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
If the position of "Labourer" even exists at Average Interstellar (say, TL13), then it will be enough so they'll have to spend no more than 5% of their daily income on food, for a start.
And, say, ground cars will be priced so that they can be purchased for far less than a year's wage (though, if you buy into the "High Tech worlds must equal hugely overpopulated worlds paradigm of Traveller, there may be huge taxes on them to discourage private ownership of transport and encourage use of mass transit public transport ... I, personally, have severe doubts about that, but YMMV). Just to mention two things. :shock: :? :wink:
Then, consider the "skills" that a "labourer" will possess at TL2 and TL13 -- hugely better educated and trained in things that are useful at TL13, and useless in a TL13 setting if they're from TL2. :shock: 8) :wink:
Phil
Like, how do you compare a TL2 labourer (Medieval, say), who was paid, in good times, barely enough to survive ... that is, to buy food (around 60-70% of their daily wage went on food) ... to a TL8 (here and now industrialised economy "labourer") who comes from a society where (at least here in Oz, anyway), they need to spend less than 5% of their daily wage on food. :shock: 8) :wink:
Short answer: you simply can't. No ifs. No ands. No buts. :shock:
Attempts to do so will fail, if examined even perfunctorily, and will merely give you a migraine for your efforts. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
If the position of "Labourer" even exists at Average Interstellar (say, TL13), then it will be enough so they'll have to spend no more than 5% of their daily income on food, for a start.
And, say, ground cars will be priced so that they can be purchased for far less than a year's wage (though, if you buy into the "High Tech worlds must equal hugely overpopulated worlds paradigm of Traveller, there may be huge taxes on them to discourage private ownership of transport and encourage use of mass transit public transport ... I, personally, have severe doubts about that, but YMMV). Just to mention two things. :shock: :? :wink:
Then, consider the "skills" that a "labourer" will possess at TL2 and TL13 -- hugely better educated and trained in things that are useful at TL13, and useless in a TL13 setting if they're from TL2. :shock: 8) :wink:
Phil
alex_greene
Guest
One potential employer told me that his company's policy was to judge roughly how much per annum a person employed at a given position was expected to bring in during the course of a single year, and pay them ten percent of that projected income.
So if some crewmember was earning Cr 24,000 per annum, i.e. Cr. 2,000 per month, his job would be expected to bring in an income of Cr. 240,000 p.a. or around Cr. 20,000 per month.
So if some crewmember was earning Cr 24,000 per annum, i.e. Cr. 2,000 per month, his job would be expected to bring in an income of Cr. 240,000 p.a. or around Cr. 20,000 per month.
alex_greene said:
Say, however, that you're a High School teacher (like me 8) ) in a government school ... this paradigm doesn't work, since, obviously, there is no easily measurable profit (of course, there is an actual profit, if you think about it more than perfunctorily ... but it certainly wouldn't qualify as "easily measurable" :roll: :wink: ).
A lot of public service jobs are gonna be like that.
Phil
Wages are all relative in the RW - and drastic variations can be found even in the smallest of communities... and they don't neccessarily tie to RW economics, cost of goods, etc. That is reality.
MGT is a game - and not a simulation of reality. Of course it doesn't 'make sense'. (Not that the RW does either!)
Could it be done better - well, yeah. I have never liked the 'one price' model of any RPG I've played (admittedly not many). As a ref though, I find economics is the easiest thing to modify without clashing with other game mechanics. It may clash with 'official' stories - but that stuff is just fluff anyway.
None of the MGT books covers economics in a level of detail that would be neccessary for 'suspension of disbelief' to players who want to play a 'realistic' economic simulation. And nowhere is this stated as a goal or intent (though the converse has been explicity stated by its creators). It doesn't stop one from doing so - although, if taken as absolute, the rules and stats would require excessive 'reasoning' to account for easily percieved irregularities.
This is a 'feature' of making a 'playable' RPG that appeals to the majority of consumers.
MGT is a game - and not a simulation of reality. Of course it doesn't 'make sense'. (Not that the RW does either!)
Could it be done better - well, yeah. I have never liked the 'one price' model of any RPG I've played (admittedly not many). As a ref though, I find economics is the easiest thing to modify without clashing with other game mechanics. It may clash with 'official' stories - but that stuff is just fluff anyway.
None of the MGT books covers economics in a level of detail that would be neccessary for 'suspension of disbelief' to players who want to play a 'realistic' economic simulation. And nowhere is this stated as a goal or intent (though the converse has been explicity stated by its creators). It doesn't stop one from doing so - although, if taken as absolute, the rules and stats would require excessive 'reasoning' to account for easily percieved irregularities.
This is a 'feature' of making a 'playable' RPG that appeals to the majority of consumers.
My case is even worse, as a geriatric nurse I keep patients alive whoaspqrz said:
only create expenses without a chance of ever generating a profit.
With this idea of wages, I really should have a negative income ...
But back on topic.
I think that is is quite possible to play Mongoose Traveller with a rather
realistic economy, but it requires that one designs another setting than
the Third Imperium, preferably a much smaller one with less technology
level differences.
alex_greene
Guest
Of course, a crewman's life would be interesting if he were required to pay for his own lodgings on board ship.
Monthly Income: Cr. 2,000.
Stateroom running cost: Cr. 2,000.
Net take home pay: Cr. 0.
No wonder most of them hire out their gun hands, first planet they hit.
Monthly Income: Cr. 2,000.
Stateroom running cost: Cr. 2,000.
Net take home pay: Cr. 0.
No wonder most of them hire out their gun hands, first planet they hit.
CosmicGamer said:
Many Cruise Ship position's have relatively low wages and lots of tips. Oil Rig workers generally are paid on the same scale as their landside equivalents with a healthy hazard bonus and Generally a healthy amount of overtime pay (Generally about 44 hours of overtime a week). Commercial Seamen are the same the big bucks is in the overtime, not the actual base rate of pay.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
How about just using the standard 1Cr = $3-5 and convert from today's salaries?
Classic Traveller (1980s) used 1Cr=$3, but with inflation etc, most people would say it is closer to 1Cr=$5 now. Use that as a general guide.
So, minimum wage is Cr 1.5 per hour (round up to Cr2 per hour for convenience).
Unskilled Laborer will make Cr 2,000 - 4,000 per year.
Classic Traveller (1980s) used 1Cr=$3, but with inflation etc, most people would say it is closer to 1Cr=$5 now. Use that as a general guide.
So, minimum wage is Cr 1.5 per hour (round up to Cr2 per hour for convenience).
Unskilled Laborer will make Cr 2,000 - 4,000 per year.
RW is not neccessarily a good example - min. wage in the 70's was a lot different than today - and there was not linear change, nor did it match 'inflation'.
Not that I actually use these as any more than a quick answer (were it doesn't really matter) or a baseline myself. There are just way too many variables in such things - ex. Military personnel are probably housed when planet side and have access to reduced priced goods and services - while civilians are probably left to fend for themselves.
Wages would vary by the 'wealth' of the world as well as its TL, resources, law and government types. Even unskilled labor spans quite a range - hospitality and agricultural jobs generally getting the lowest wages - while inexperienced, unskilled labor/construction tends to be higher (more temporary, greater health risks).
Not that I actually use these as any more than a quick answer (were it doesn't really matter) or a baseline myself. There are just way too many variables in such things - ex. Military personnel are probably housed when planet side and have access to reduced priced goods and services - while civilians are probably left to fend for themselves.
Wages would vary by the 'wealth' of the world as well as its TL, resources, law and government types. Even unskilled labor spans quite a range - hospitality and agricultural jobs generally getting the lowest wages - while inexperienced, unskilled labor/construction tends to be higher (more temporary, greater health risks).
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Um. Your memory of things is rather wildly different from mine.
Classic Traveller (1970's) didn't have a Cr=$ equivalence, but we generally assumed that it was around 1 Cr = US$1 at that time.
Later on, I forget whether CTrav or MegaTrav did, either implicitly or explicitly, I forget which, assume 1 Cr = US$2-2.50.
AFAIUI TNE and Mongoose Traveller still use this equivalence - I don't recall anything in TNE that changed the 1 CR = US$2-2.50 and I haven't noticed anything in MongTrav that does, either (I freely admit I could have missed it - if you have a cite to a page in the Core Rules or any official printed material that says different, I'd be interested to see it ... seriously, not sarkily
)You don't need to worry about inflation since the 1970s as prices for key items in Traveller (and Salaries, such as they are) don't seem to have substantially changed since then. So, as far as the equipment in the printed books are concerned, there's no problem ... and pricing equivalent modern stuff should be easy enough ... work out the divisor (or multiplier) for a basket of listed goods of similar type and use this to divide/multiply the current price ... allowing for the fact that it should get cheaper each TL beyond the present one. of course
Phil
BP said:
Then, of course, you cannot assume that US style pseudo laissez-faire capitalism will be the prevalent socio-economic system in the 3I ... why, even the US is moving, with glacial slowness, towards the "socialist" (which, of course, is not the same as "communist", Limbaugh et al notwithstanding :wink: ) position of, say, Canada or most European states and the UK (and Australia and NZ in my part of the world) with regard to Health Insurance.
Even though some Traveller players seem quite dismissive of GURPS Traveller, it is clear from the material on the Vilani in GTrav products that the Vilani Imperium was very much a socialist style state in many ways.
So the wages being paid in cash probably only represent a part of the actual financial benefits that characters have access to.
Just something to think about, anyway 8)
Phil
