Question - Finesse

[Supplement Four]

OK, the enemy is a Vanir wearing a leather jerkin and a horned open-faced helm (steel cap). The Vanir has DR 5. His Dodge and Parry Defence are both 12.

Thrallan, our barbarian hero, is using his dagger (AP 1) to fight the blood thirsty Vanir bastard.

Thrallan's STR 16 (+3) and DEX 13 (+1).

For a Finesse attack, Thrallan needs a 17 to hit.

What happens if Thrallan throws a 15?

It's not enough for the Finesse attack to succeed, but does it count as a regular hit using the weapon's AP 1 (no STR bonus added)?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Yes. The attack still hits, but it does not bypass the armour.

 

[Supplement Four]

If attacking using the Finesse combat style, does one still use the STR bonus to add to weapon damage?

For example, in the above Thrallan needed a 17 to hit with a Finesse attack, but he only rolled a 15.

I understand that the AP of the weapon is not increased due to STR, but is damage? Or, is damage just straight weapon damage with no STR modifier?

 

[Supplement Four]

Yes S4, he will be able to add his Str Bonus to Weapon Damage

On a Finesse attack? I thought STR bonus was only used on damage for a melee attack.



For example, Thrallan needs an 12+ to hit the Vanir with a melee strike. The Vanir has DR 4 for a leather jerkin. Thrallan has STR 16 for a +3 to hit, and his Axe is AP 2, for a total AP 5.

Thus, Thrallan needs a 9+ to hit (with STR factored in), and if he hits, he'll do 1d8 +3 STR -2 DR, or 1d8 +1 damage.

That's a melee attack. I've got that down.



Now, for the finesse attack: Thrallan still needs a 12+ to hit the Vanir in a melee attack. But, since this is a finesse attack, we add DR 4 to the target number, making it a 16+ to hit.

Thrallan is still using his axe (AP 2). Since this is a finesse attack, we're not really concerned with AP unless Thrallan rolls a 12-15. This would mean the finesse attack was not sucessful, but Thrallan did hit with a standard melee hit.

We can't use STR to boost AP on a finesse attack, so Thrallan's total AP is AP 2. Therefore, the Vanir's armor does full damage absorbtion.

1d8 -5 damage.

Question: Does STR modifier apply to this damage roll? I didn't think it did since STR couldn't modify AP, and DEX was used on the attack throw.



Or, how about if the finesse attack does succeed with a 16+ throw? I thought the armor would be bypassed and the damage would be a flat 1d8 without STR bonus.

 

[VincentDarlage]

It is a melee finesse attack... you get the strength bonus to damage in all cases. It is still melee - it is just more controlled... but once the point starts to go into the enemy, the fighter can shove in with all his might and get the strength damage bonus. But armour is meant to deflect weapons, so a screwed up finesse attack is more deflected than a straight out strength-based attack - thus the loss of str modifier to AP. But once he connects, he can still shove in and get the str modifier to damage, but his attack is angled wrong to get the str modifier to AP.

 

[Supplement Four]

Ah. I see that in the rules now.

I'm all questions today.

What about Total AP with thrown weapons?

Does a warrior add his STR to the AP of his hunting spear when he throws it?

I'm thinking that he does.

 

[kintire]

Yes, he does. He does not add his strength bonus to bows or crossbows though, although they will often have "Strength" scores themselves.

By the way, "melee" is any attack which is not Ranged. The STR/DEX thing is power and finesse.