Progress on 2e

[Alexb83]

Do the Minbari really need the White Star?

Then again does the EA really need the Excalibur?

On the timeline thing, the White Star is introduced in Matters of Honour, first episode of Season 3. It may be crewed by Religious Caste Minbari but is effectively given to Sheridan, not really available for Minbari use...

The Grey Council is broken in Severed Dreams episode 10 of Season 3.

In Grey 17 is Missing, Episode 19, Neroon a senior Warrior Caste leader accepts that the Rangers are loyal to Delenn as "the One".

And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place episode 20 of season 3. The White Star fleet is ready for action and is revealed to Sheridan. It is still crewed by Religious Caste Minbari (loyal to Delenn) but commanded by Rangers (loyal again to Delenn). So the fleet doesn't appear until 10 episodes after the breaking of the Grey Council.

At what point are the White Stars under the command of the Grey Council? Or the Warrior Caste?


Nick

At all points up until the breaking of the council, they were under the control of the council. Afterwards whilst they're under Delenn's control (she is Minbari!) - the Whitestar is simply put at Sheridan's disposal because Delenn (A Minbari Satai) orders it to be so.

As to whether or not the Minbari need the Whitestar - does the ISA need allied fleet members? Does the EA need the Victory (as you point out). No - these are just arbitrary expansions to fleet lists by Mongoose to give them flexibility (and no doubt to sell extra models). The option for Minbari to field a WS in their fleets is no different, and just as justifiable - and can either be achieved by having it in their list, or having all ISA member fleets get a reciprocal 1FAP of ISA ships in any game (as the ISA do, the other way around).

ISA can use other fleets ships as thats part of the charter for joining the ISA, you provide additional ships. the same cannot be said to go back the other way. the ISA will defend your borders but wont go under your control. also if every member could use a WS you could end up with WS fighting each other for member states in a campaign, which would never happen, however other races do fight themselves so its not a problem the ISA having member ships.
you will not get whitestars in your minbari fleet. They were built specifically as a fleet seperate to the minbari war machine.

The ISA charter wrt the rangers as laid down in Rising Star says nothing about ships being provided to the ISA, it mentions only inviting members to give volunteers to join the rangers. They will provide information to help members enforce their security but not intervene themselves. Also the boomf about the ISA upholding the sovereignty of other races flies in the face of the ISA controlling anyone elses' ships in battle.

 

[Da Boss]

not all fleets have lot of high level choices - even the greater powers - the Centauri get the Octurion and the Liati - not really a choice at present...........

Plus of course ISA get the Victory which is quite frankly bloody scary!

 

[emperorpenguin]

actually the britons werent ancestors of modern welsh. the british isles were covered in many differant tribes, some of which were conquered by romans etc but all were celtic. they would have had differant versions of languages depending on region as is shown today by the differances in the irish, scotish, welsh and cornish languages. they all come from the same era but are related to each other (apart from the welsh which forgot how to use vowels).

At the time of the Roman withdrawal Britain was only inhabited by "P" Celts, the ancestors of the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. The "Q" Celts were still in Ireland until the Dalriadan invasions following the withdrawal.

So the Britons (meaning the Romanised Celts of the province of Brittania) were indeed the ancestors of today's Welsh, Cornish and Bretons

Why does everyone else keep trying to talk about B5? :wink:

 

[captainsmirk]

At all points up until the breaking of the council, they were under the control of the council. Afterwards whilst they're under Delenn's control (she is Minbari!) - the Whitestar is simply put at Sheridan's disposal because Delenn (A Minbari Satai) orders it to be so.

Yes but Delenn never shows much loyalty to the Council after she was fired from it...

Plus there was only one White Star at this point, hardly worth adding to the fleet, unlike a single Armageddon ship in the EA fleet...
The rest of the fleet didn't turn up as I pointed out until after the Council was broken.

Also, whilst not perhaps relevant to this discussion the Rangers were not bound to the council during this period. The Rangers are loyal to En'til'za, who during this period (until "War Without End") is Sinclair who is not under the Grey Council's jurisdiction.


Nick

 

[Joe_Dracos]

actually the britons werent ancestors of modern welsh. the british isles were covered in many differant tribes, some of which were conquered by romans etc but all were celtic. they would have had differant versions of languages depending on region as is shown today by the differances in the irish, scotish, welsh and cornish languages. they all come from the same era but are related to each other (apart from the welsh which forgot how to use vowels).

At the time of the Roman withdrawal Britain was only inhabited by "P" Celts, the ancestors of the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. The "Q" Celts were still in Ireland until the Dalriadan invasions following the withdrawal.

So the Britons (meaning the Romanised Celts of the province of Brittania) were indeed the ancestors of today's Welsh, Cornish and Bretons

Why does everyone else keep trying to talk about B5? :wink:

So your telling me (a guy of dirrect welsh decent) that it is okay to think King Arthur is a hero? Ha! Take that Anglo-Saxons!

 

[Shadow Queen]

Like the guy im the movie "King Arthur" with wasshername from the "Captain Jack Sparrow" movies

 

[Silvereye]

Oh god, I had managed to blank that film from my mind. Thanks for dredging it back up.... I'm still not sure which was worse, Arthur or Troy or Alexander.

Oh, there is a large rocky hill in the middle of Edinburgh called Arthur's Seat so it seems every bit of Britain has its attempts at King Arthur ties.

 

[emperorpenguin]

So your telling me (a guy of dirrect welsh decent) that it is okay to think King Arthur is a hero? Ha! Take that Anglo-Saxons!

Yup everyone (except the Americans) seems to realise Arthur fought against the Saxons.

 

[katadder]

think most accurate information points to cornwall, who even in their own language do acknowledge the existence of vowels which means he cant be anything to do with wales

as for troy, alexander and king arthur. alexander is by far the worst out of all of them. troy and king arthur arnt to bad if you dont try to link them with the history and just take them as swords and bows type films.

 

[emperorpenguin]

think most accurate information points to cornwall, who even in their own language do acknowledge the existence of vowels which means he cant be anything to do with wales

as for troy, alexander and king arthur. alexander is by far the worst out of all of them. troy and king arthur arnt to bad if you dont try to link them with the history and just take them as swords and bows type films.

Arthur wasn't bad but set the Roman withdrawal from Britain about 40 years later than it actually happened..... :roll:

 

[captainsmirk]

He was at least fighting the Saxons in it, even if they did inexplicably land in Scotland...

:?


Nick

 

[Hash]

Fascinating as your perspectives on the creative interpretation of history that modern film makers tend to take...

How goes 2nd ed - is there some sort of summary of the information compiled here to date that forum users might want to be involved in discussing? What are the play testers testing at the moment - is there anything that might usefully be debated here?

 

[Greg Smith]

We are currently testing:

Centauri
Narn
Minbari
Abbai
Brakiri
Planetary Assaults
Admirals
Space stations
shields

and debating Centauri interceptors(which ships should have them), whether replacing Sentris with Rutarians is worth it.

Topic for further debate: do you use Demos, Vorchars, Vorchats, Amars, Balvarix/Balvarin, Prefect?

 

[Hash]

Nicely back on track Greg

Centauri being my second fleet - I've never used a Demos, just seems completely underpowered to me and not very versatile.

The two Vorchan variants aren't bad but I've always tended to go for the Maximus or Darkner in preference with Corvan for scout - patrol level scouts rule! One thing I really like about Centauri....

Balvarin...hmm...no, a carrier full of Sentri isn't very appealing when I can have all the other fantastic Centauri raid ships - and yes I have used a beardy Prefect...even 3 once in a tournament They are very, VERY good ships for Raid.

Balvarix - was very tempted to take Centauri for the 5pt Fleet Admiral (War) tourney at ID Gaming (ended up taking Drazi). It looks good as a command ship and fleet carrier is great - especially with Raziks giving them more than a fighting chance against those Nials and WS Fighters! (Not bad for Rutarians either...) definitely a nice battle addition.

Just my thoughts...

 

[animus]

Yup everyone (except the Americans) seems to realise Arthur fought against the Saxons.

That's the problem with all you Irish - always grouping an entire country's people into a single stereotype.

 

[Triggy]

Nicely back on track Greg

Centauri being my second fleet - I've never used a Demos, just seems completely underpowered to me and not very versatile.

The two Vorchan variants aren't bad but I've always tended to go for the Maximus or Darkner in preference with Corvan for scout - patrol level scouts rule! One thing I really like about Centauri....

Balvarin...hmm...no, a carrier full of Sentri isn't very appealing when I can have all the other fantastic Centauri raid ships - and yes I have used a beardy Prefect...even 3 once in a tournament They are very, VERY good ships for Raid.

Balvarix - was very tempted to take Centauri for the 5pt Fleet Admiral (War) tourney at ID Gaming (ended up taking Drazi). It looks good as a command ship and fleet carrier is great - especially with Raziks giving them more than a fighting chance against those Nials and WS Fighters! (Not bad for Rutarians either...) definitely a nice battle addition.

Just my thoughts...

How about a point of view on the concept of using these ships? (i.e. would you use them if they were all equal in ability or do you think some are poor ideas for variants and shouldn't be an option?)

 

[Hash]

How about a point of view on the concept of using these ships? (i.e. would you use them if they were all equal in ability or do you think some are poor ideas for variants and shouldn't be an option?)

Ok - more interesting question!

I loved the idea of 3 variants for the Vorchan! (I like buying one model and have 3 different ship options ) when I first read the rules, would definitely consider it a hard choice between them although I still don't think much of the Demos

The two levels of carrier Balvarin/Balvarix, again makes perfect sense and would definitely use them (although maybe would rely on how the fighter rules work)

Likewise on the other ships really - none of the ideas behing the ships are lame - hell I love the Kutai for example and the model for the Haven patrol boat but would never use 'em in a game (ok I actually have twice but they didn't do much). I don't think there are any really poorly thought out concepts in the Centauri fleet - they're all interesting ships just some seem far more effective than others....now balance 'em all and make it a tough choice between them? Fan-head heaven

 

[lastbesthope]

Plus there was only one White Star at this point, hardly worth adding to the fleet, unlike a single Armageddon ship in the EA fleet...
The rest of the fleet didn't turn up as I pointed out until after the Council was broken.

Nick

Chances are though that some of them were complete, just not yet in service

LBH

 

[animus]

Plus there was only one White Star at this point, hardly worth adding to the fleet, unlike a single Armageddon ship in the EA fleet...
The rest of the fleet didn't turn up as I pointed out until after the Council was broken.

Nick

Chances are though that some of them were complete, just not yet in service

LBH

Maybe they were on long range scouting missions guarding Za Ha Dum or something or maybe not a lot of them or maybe they didn't want the whole league to see them or maybe they were being built by other league worlds who added their expertise to the ISA fleet in new unique ways. Lots of ways to go with ISA.

 

[Greg Smith]

Nicely back on track Greg

Thanks. I didn't want to reveal too much about what we are doing. We're still working on alot of fleets, although most of the rules are now done.

Centauri being my second fleet - I've never used a Demos, just seems completely underpowered to me and not very versatile.

The two Vorchan variants aren't bad but I've always tended to go for the Maximus or Darkner in preference with Corvan for scout - patrol level scouts rule! One thing I really like about Centauri....

Hmm.

...and yes I have used a beardy Prefect...even 3 once in a tournament They are very, VERY good ships for Raid.

Obviously we aim to tone down the overpowered ships. The Cantauri have a lot of very similar ships at raid - some of the similar variants are (how shall I put this) endangered.

Balvarix - was very tempted to take Centauri for the 5pt Fleet Admiral (War) tourney at ID Gaming (ended up taking Drazi). It looks good as a command ship and fleet carrier is great -

Fleet carrier, command ship is good. Ok.

Just my thoughts...

Thank you.