Problems?

[H]

Those of you complaining about games going "dead": have you tried to run demos at stores or conventions? Have you tried to recruit players? The game is "dead" only as long as you let it be. Yes it may be harder to recruit players, but it's still possible.

You can still play with whatever materials you have; it's not as if they suddenly become worthless and no longer work. There are plenty of games that are still fun to play even though they are not supported anymore.

At worst, you can try to sell your old "dead" games on Ebay or Noble Knights/Troll and Toad to get something out of your "dead" game. Better than throwing it all away.

I joined the Mongoose demo team many moons ago, alas I got about as much support from the local rep as my belly would from a g-string. All i got was complaints about not doing enough demo's, but complete silence when i asked about the demo kit. I think i did 3 demo's as a mongoose person, then sacked it off and just did it for the game shops I frequented as a player.

However, if you demo a game that then dies out, you get accusing glances off people who spent hard earned cash. The bonus for ST CTA is that if it dies, i suspect ADB games will go on forever, so there will be a market to sell your mini's, as a lot of younger players won't touch those rulesets as a bit cumbersome.

as to selling those mini's, if you can afford to take such a big loss then fine, some people can't and that is what makes them wary.

Oh and I did look to run a ST tournament... that I cancelled due to mini delays, and no PDF Rules. plus a severe lack of interest.

and I did support B5 with my own supplements to the game, and hosting other peoples. http://www.rampantchicken.com
however such supplements would not be valid for ST CTA as SC would not permit ship design outside of his control from what i have read.

 

[Asroc2000]

Wow, what a lot of gloom and doom merchants we have on here

I'll start by repeating what I was told when I initially complained about the amount of errata that was appearing.

You can play a perfectly good game with what is in the core rule book alone.

So what if they did stop producing anything else? You still have enough ships and races for enough games to last for years!

Why not see the glass as half full rather than half empty?
If you bought the rules, you have a nice little game system that you can play on a hexless table top and have fun* with.
If you bought mini's too, well that's nice, you can use them ion this game, and in the various other incarnations, SFB, FC and Starmada, or adapt them to a set of generic rules like Full Thrust if you want to avoid hexes.

So even if the absolute worst case happens and nothing else comes forth, you still have years of gaming ahead of you with what exists now, and we are assured by Matt that the situation is very far from that worse case.

* fun
Anybody remember that is the reason we play games? to have fun???

Now I'll be sure to get flamed for this, but might as well get phasered for a sheep as a lamb, so, gentlefolk, please: less moaning and more gaming!!!

 

[tneva82]

So what if they did stop producing anything else? You still have enough ships and races for enough games to last for years!

You interested in playing solo games?

Neen there, done that. Often do that when I'm trying to decide do I invest on it. But it ain't interesting. in the long run.

So even if the absolute worst case happens and nothing else comes forth, you still have years of gaming ahead of you with what exists now, and we are assured by Matt that the situation is very far from that worse case.

a) solo gaming ain't fun
b) Matt is saying that now but last time I checked he isn't omniscient who knows the future. If he knew he would have been sorting out problems with Steve before he makes them public.

So basically I have to decide:

a) do I invest money in game where the main partner has already become annoyed at the whole deal or:
b) do I invest in some other thing I would love to invest if I had money.

Since I never have enough money to satisfy everything I wants to do it's not like I'm exactly lacking in things to invest. So why invest in the least reliable one...

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Your issue seems to be more about a local player base than playing a 'Dead Game'. As has been mentioned, games are only dead if you let them be. The only 28mm Sci-Fi army i have is for Warzone (as i don't like 40K), which i have had for at least 15years (and stil play with - i have a player base for this game), and i have a load of the 'BFE-WWII' books as i run the Gear Krieg version (as i don't like the DP9 core rules). Also still have ALL the SST rules and supplements produced, though got rid of my large collection of figures this year (2 reasons - wanted to switch to 15mm, and NO PLAYER BASE in the area).

Just because a game isn't being further supported, doesn't mean it's dead - though i do agree with your point that it is difficult to bring in new players (where will they get stuff :?: ). Lets allow things to follow a path that seems to be mapped out for a period into the future. I would be as unhappy as everyone else if the game didn't expand (bring on the ISC - sometime in 2018 maybe ), but i'm not passing up on it yet :?

 

[McKinstry]

I do not believe the risk on the models suddenly ceasing is significant enough to measure.

Three off hand comments by SVC over multiple months verus multiple direct statements from Matt/Jean doth not a crisis make.

Once the Kzinti and Gorn arrive, while the Lyrans and Hydrans would be nice, the game is essentially self supporting. (although I really really want the Gettysburg CB model and a Saladin DD model).

Even if things stopped post-Gorn (that pipeline is flowing) the idea that a game is dead unless supported aggressively and constantly by a company is simply false and a product of the GW culture. Virtually all historical games except Flames of War are rules only with other parties producing minatures and by GW standards, virtually all are unsupported yet they are thriving (Fire & Fury, Johnny Red, Black Powder, Impetus, DBM/DBA etc. etc.) I still play a bunch of BFG although for me, ACTASF is superior and I'll probably dump about half the models.

For me, I chose a game that I like, paint all the sides I need, and find people to game with and while I love getting new models and evolving rules, I do not depend on a company to support my game ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I do not abdicate my gaming choices to random forces of the market or the product decisions of any one company.

If I provide a compelling scenario, good looking models and terrain and an enjoyable game experience, I have no problem getting players regardless of whether the game is on the shelves although it makes my painting life easier if others can build fleets.

 

[Jean]

I've been thinking about how this whole situation blew up. A person took another person's statement out of its native habitat and brought it here. Most of you don't know SVC, his way of speaking, or anything about the company or its long-term customers. You lack complete context for the statement.

You don't know that the CFO (SVC's wife) is not happy about the lack of production. You don't know how much SVC blames himself for that lack. You don't know about our customers who are emailing SVC and posting in public asking just WHEN we are going to produce something for our lines. You don't know about the implications being cast that we are abandoning our own lines. You don't know that I've been after Steve to not give dates when we'll have things out especially when we don't know if we will meet them. (You know how frustrated you've been here when dates passed and we didn't have everything out we said we would.) That means he cannot give people an answer when they ask "when questions" because we have been putting off things to work on ACTASF, including working on the ACTA Journal. You take a frustrated remark and read a lot into it -- more than what was intended.

Then you take another remark that shows that Matthew and Steve ARE talking and ARE working things out and somehow read into it that Steve is ending the line. You don't seem to want to believe Matthew when he tells you the line is continuing. You don't seem to want to believe me when I say that just because we let the ACTASF timeline slip some on our end in order to try to get our own product lines caught up, that doesn't mean an end to the line.

So what am I doing on my day off from the RL job -- the day that I had planned on working on Captain's Log? I am here working on defending the expected lifespan of ACTASF. Of course the contract has defined ways it can end. However, it is a JOINT contract -- Mongoose and ADB are partners, not master and servant. It is a contract written between adults and such things must have legal cause to end. One partner having a frustrating day (Steven Petrick's new car was totaled by a careless driver and this has caused a lot of stress within the company as we didn't know if the driver had current insurance and buying another car takes a lot of work and time) does not create a breach of contract.

Now, may we call an end to all this drama? The line is continuing, things are in the pipeline that don't require ADB's attention, and all will be well.

With respect,

Jean

 

[mdauben]

All money I spent for those games wasted. Wasted, wasted, wasted.

Not to be rude, tneva82, but if you are so sure ACTASF is doomed, why are you "wasting" your time here on their forum? :roll:

a) solo gaming ain't fun

I've already got enough Starline 2500 minis to host 3-6 player games. Once the Kzinti and Gorn are released that will jump to 5-10 player games. Shake yourself out of the GW mind-set. You don't need two players, each with their own army/fleet/herd to play a wargame. :wink:

Going back to your original list, I invested hundreds in BFG and I don't consider a penny of it wasted. While GW might not actively support it anymore I can and do still play and enjoy it, and I've even seen a couple new people get into it in the last year. Same with several other "dead" GW systems like Blood Bowl, Warmaster, Legends of the Old West, etc.

I never got into the B5 game but I know people who loved it and still play it. The fact that, as you yourself said, some of the OOP miniatures are selling on auction sites for more than original retail means they are still in demand. So, people must be actively playing and either adding to their collection or starting new ones. Star Trek has an even larger and longer lived fan base that B5, so as long as their are people who are fans of the setting, I don't worry too much about finding people to play the game with.

Probably 3/4 of the games released every year are "doomed" to "die" within a year or two. Its the nature of the business. Gamers are fickle. The business is tough. I'm not going to let that stop me from trying anything new. 8)

 

[archon96]

I am a bit better off financially then my friends so ive made to the decision to field all the fleets. Is it painfully expensive for me, why yes it is. However even if the lights go out we should still be able to play. I visit both forums and people need to leave the comments were there made. This aint high school were you hear what the cool kid said about the slutty chick and then go running to the slutty chick to tell her and just to see a fight happen.

 

[storeylf]

A person took another person's statement out of its native habitat and brought it here. Most of you don't know SVC, his way of speaking, or anything about the company or its long-term customers. You lack complete context for the statement.

And I would do so again. You can follow the link and see it in its native habitat.

No disrepect, but what he said is almost certainly of interest to any one who likes the mongoose game, and not everyone here frequents the FC forum. There is no particular reason why only those who follow him on his the FC forum should hear his views on the partnership.

If he wants to make statements like that public then he has no one to blame other than himself for what flows if he didn't provide full context. The fact that people don't know anything about his way of speaking etc etc is a good reaosn to not go saying certain things on the internet, where it can only be taken at face value.

 

[Jean]

storeylf, I really don't want to argue with you. You did what you thought best.

Unfortunately one thread does not make a complete context. That comes from reading other threads and seeing how SVC interacts with the customers there. It comes from reading our blogs and SVC's daily reports. Who SVC thought he was writing for were ADB's customers who were complaining about our lack of progress and wanting to know why we were missing deadlines. We have missed deadlines before, but this is actually not something we are comfortable with -- and we don't like misleading our customers with incorrect information, even if it were correct when we originally posted it.

Could he have been more diplomatic? Certainly, and no doubt he would have been had he known that his comment would have been widely distributed.

What is done is done. What is important is that ACTASF will continue, that Matthew and Steve are communicating and working out ways of doing things that includes ADB getting products done, and that we move past this doom and gloom, OMG the game is dead and will never be playable, Sturm und Drang drama that is in this thread. The only thing this sort of discussion sells is popcorn to the spectators.

With respect,

Jean

 

[archon96]

there was popcorn, were the heck was I.

 

[H]

there was popcorn, were the heck was I.

probably on the ADB forums where nothing happened.