Prime Directive...

[Jean]

We would probably do a "Final Frontiers" supplement for the missing stuff. Remember that the PD20/PD20M players didn't get all of the species that the GURPS players did. (That decision was made before I joined the company.) We've always promised those players would get the information in the future. I just had to finish the Federation books and then Traveller popped up. TPD quickly moved to the top of the list.

 

[Jean]

Garth, I must disagree with you about it being "all game engine stuff" with the implication that it is expendable "stuff." PD20 had information about what you would learn in the various academies -- that part was not carried over into PD20M because it broke the game system. Different careers mean that you get different information about the society. Still, it was what the d20 systems required -- and I'm not sure how to get that information into GURPS terms. It would be more of an essay about how the society works and what a person in X profession might be expected to know or learn.

We still haven't decided if the Final Frontiers will be an e-zine or how it will work. I need to get Traveller PD done before I tackle that project.

Note to self: Must eat the PD elephant one bite at a time!

 

[adm]

Jean, Salt?

 

[locarno24]

Jean, Salt?

Barbeque sauce, man, barbeque sauce. Solves every problem.

Garth, I must disagree with you about it being "all game engine stuff" with the implication that it is expendable "stuff." PD20 had information about what you would learn in the various academies

And for what my opinion is worth, I support this stuff. One of the key things with prime directive is that Star Fleet is like but not quite the same as the franchise that dare not speak its name, hence a good 'starting briefing' is a good way to recalibrate brand new players, and different careers will have very different outlooks on and knowledge of the universe.

 

[Sgt_G]

PD20 had information about what you would learn in the various academies -- that part was not carried over into PD20M because it broke the game system.

I only have PD:GURPS, but I was under the impression that it has all the same fluff information that PD20 has. Ditto for 20M.

I can see that what is "rules" (i.e., required to build a character) in one game engine is gee-wiz fluff in another. It's just background flavor text to set the stage the character will live in. "Academy cadets will spend four years learning just enough to be dangerous in many subjects to include but not limited to blah blah blah blah blah. Their real education begins once they graduate and are assigned to the Fleet." It's not "rules" per say because it doesn't set skill-point values or anything, and players can skip right over that part of the book and still build a character. I don't understand how that would "break" a game engine.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Jean, keep on doing what you're doing. I agree with your take on Prime Directive Traveller's design (and also with the hows and whys about the other PD designs in the past).

 

[Jean]

Garth, having a career path that cannot exist due to the rules set breaks the game engine. Having careers that discount abilities breaks the game engine (as GURPS quickly found out and ended with 3e, I believe). If you don't play multiple game systems (and I have), then you don't realize what is sauce for the goose may ruin the gander. (And may the food deities help you if you try to cook a rooster the same way you would a young hen!)

I've played using at least a dozen game systems. What works in one system does NOT work in others. I do have a slight amount of experience with RPGs and I certainly know what I want to know as a gamer. I also know some of what will break our contract with Paramount.

I also am listening to what Traveller players tell me they want. They are the ones who want to buy this game and ultimately, for the health of the company, those are the folks we must please.

 

[Nerroth]

Out of curiousity, will Traveller Prime Directive use the same Tech Level progression as seen in GURPS Prime Directive (where TL 9 is impulse-powered non-tactical warp, TL 12 is the "modern" era of tactical warp drive, and so forth), or will it need a new set of tech levels to account for the various generations of warp technology in the Star Fleet Universe?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I suspect the TL tree progression will follow the same lines, thematically, as the tech of the Star Fleet Universe as is. TL is a relative indicator of sophistication with some number or label thrown in for distinctiveness. As an example, Prime Directive D20 Modern version did not follow the Progress Levels to match those found in its D20 Modern SRD or in its tech assumptions. You have to do that with SFU/Traveller TL. One of the SFU warp speeds is a 500pc in one month? Better than TL 15 Warp Drive (24 pc per month, pg 109 Alternate Drives). "Transporters"/teleporters do not even exist in the Traveller Core Rules as a tech device. Neither do "tractor beams".

I'm fine with that as long as the values for "existing historical TL" (0 thru 8 ) remain the same, and that future-tech found in the Traveller Core Rules (cause all you will need is the Core Rules and Prime Directive, right :wink: ) is TL'ed to conform to the values found in Star Fleet Universe or outright stated as to not exist in the Star Fleet Universe. Oh and things that don't exist in the Core Rules, like transporters and tractor beams, are fleshed out to conform to the rule system as best possible (like ranges/skills needed/costs).

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The PDs from what I've seen use an RPG's mechanic, but not its setting. So tech levels are swapped out for the preferred setting (Starfleet Universe). GURPS TLs were "adjusted" for its PD, if I remember. I know Traveller kicked GURPS' TLs to the curb when its setting was used in 3e.

 

[Nerroth]

I was guessing it would make sense to simply appropriate the GURPS PD tech levels more or less wholesale, if the primary goal was to maintain universe consistency (not least since those tend to be the "default" means by which to explain the technological evolution of the setting, as opposed to using the PLs from PD20M).

But I was curious as to how different the default templates were between GURPS and Traveller, to see whether or not the same jump-off point (TL 9) would apply in both cases.


And at the risk of being pedantic, I might note that, as quoted over in a recent thread elsewhere on the forums:

"Star Fleet is two words"

(So far as the arcane terms of the licence are concerned, "Starfleet" is what you see in the Paramount/CBS franchise, while "Star Fleet" is the SFU counterpart.)

 

[Galahad64]

We've been told that we need deckplans. We put out a call and got two -- one from Garth and another from another SFUer. Matthew, SVC, and I will be discussing our options regarding that. SFU ships are huge compared to many Traveller ships. I don't want to give you deckplans that you'll need a ginormous magnifying glass to read. If that means you get a separate book of 11x17 loose-leaf deckplans, then we may go that path.

What sort of deck plans do you need and what final format? I'm not SFU Savy but am pretty good with TOS Trek.

Jonathon

 

[Sgt_G]

Well, Steve Cole uses Freehand for Mac version 8.0, so the format has to be something he can pull into that program. I had to convert my files to TIFF, but then if there are any changes to be made, he can't easily edit the imagery. I need to do some experiments with DXF files to see if he can read them in and edit the result.

As to which ships need to be done: The Federation frigate and police cutter are done, and SVC said someone was working on the heavy cruiser. I don't think anyone has attempted the old light cruiser yet. The Klingon D7 was done, although in a less-detailed format than the Fed FFG or POL, but I would love to see plans for the F5 and E3/G2. The Tholian PC plans are very innovative. Someone is working on the Lyran cruiser, but last I heard had to make some major adjustments. I don't think anyone has mention doing Gorn ships yet.

 

[Jean]

Please do contact Steve Cole by email for more information on what we need.

Thanks!

 

[Galahad64]

Are these all taking their inspiration from the FASA game designs, or are they coming from classic Trek?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Are these all taking their inspiration from the FASA game designs, or are they coming from classic Trek?

Star Fleet Battles and earlier.

 

[Jean]

We cannot use FASA. Deckplans must be built from the minis and the SSDs.

 

[locarno24]

I also am listening to what Traveller players tell me they want.

What? You silly, silly person. Why would you ever do something like that? :mrgreen:

TL is a relative indicator of sophistication with some number or label thrown in for distinctiveness. As an example, Prime Directive D20 Modern version did not follow the Progress Levels to match those found in its D20 Modern SRD or in its tech assumptions. You have to do that with SFU/Traveller TL. One of the SFU warp speeds is a 500pc in one month? Better than TL 15 Warp Drive (24 pc per month, pg 109 Alternate Drives). "Transporters"/teleporters do not even exist in the Traveller Core Rules as a tech device. Neither do "tractor beams".

Right. But you don't actually need TL in a game, especially where the players aren't designing and building ships themselves. There don't need to be upmty-up versions of the hand-held phaser because the game is set at (more or less) one point in time with one polity that (unlike the 3I) is pretty good at ensuring all parts of it - or at least all parts of its armed forces - are operating at the same tech level.

The tech is just 'what is', and if they need to add something that currently 'isn't', then fair enough.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

TL of other planets is a concern when violating the prime directive.

 

[Nerroth]

Even leaving the potential for future sourcebooks set in earlier (or later) eras aside, the "modern" TL 12 time period has its own quirks. A Romulan player character will be stuck at Tech Level 9 as late as the Treaty of Smarba in Y159, and will have to go through a series of adjustments in order to get used to the newer Klingon technology being supplied to the Empire. Plus, an Inter-Stellar Concordium campaign set prior to Y160 will go no farther than TL 11, since the ISC didn't make the full-scale investment into TL 12 tech until it felt obliged to upon its discovery of the "insane empires" beyond its farthest borders.

And in any event, including the TL list in the core rulebook helps to introduce the concept of technology evolution to new readers, which may perhaps help encourage more interest in one day seeing sourcebooks covering role-playing in the Early Years, or in the eras of first- and second-generation advanced technologies.