Prime Directive...
- Thread starter Galahad64
- Start date
I don't know about the other people doing deck plans, but this set took me over a year to complete. Granted, I let it sit for a few months a couple of times. Still, these things take time.
I am NOT in the loop for all the behind-the-screens discussions, but I am left with the impression that some people are expecting one or two pages of deck plans per ship. That's just not going to happen, not with Trek-style starships. The Federation Burke-class frigate plans take five pages, not counting any descriptive text, and eight pages with the text. The Romulan Skyhawk plans takes ten pages, including text. My police cutter planes "might" fit into four pages (two decks per page), again without any text. I had a page and a half of text for Deck Three alone as published in Captain's Log #47, so I image I could end up with ten to twelve pages of text for the whole ship, which SVC could probably re-write down to six to eight pages of text, plus the four pages of diagrams.
So, let's say there's an average of ten pages per ship with deck plans and descriptive text. Someone up-topic said Mongoose wants sixteen ships worth of plans before they'll publish anything (I have NOT heard that officially from either Mongoose or ADB). That's 160 pages, give or take. The Prime Directive - GURPS core rulebook is only 176 pages. Do the math.
I am NOT in the loop for all the behind-the-screens discussions, but I am left with the impression that some people are expecting one or two pages of deck plans per ship. That's just not going to happen, not with Trek-style starships. The Federation Burke-class frigate plans take five pages, not counting any descriptive text, and eight pages with the text. The Romulan Skyhawk plans takes ten pages, including text. My police cutter planes "might" fit into four pages (two decks per page), again without any text. I had a page and a half of text for Deck Three alone as published in Captain's Log #47, so I image I could end up with ten to twelve pages of text for the whole ship, which SVC could probably re-write down to six to eight pages of text, plus the four pages of diagrams.
So, let's say there's an average of ten pages per ship with deck plans and descriptive text. Someone up-topic said Mongoose wants sixteen ships worth of plans before they'll publish anything (I have NOT heard that officially from either Mongoose or ADB). That's 160 pages, give or take. The Prime Directive - GURPS core rulebook is only 176 pages. Do the math.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
I would just like to see maybe 8 or 10 pages with 3 artist-rendered ships on each page with a little blurb telling about the ship and what it's used for in the Starfleet Universe.
Stuff like:
Number of crew
Ship function (cruiser, freighter, luxury liner, scout, stealth, pirate, sci-lab, starbase, generation ship, hollowed asteroid , etc.)
weapons
fuel duration
speed
agility
defense shields
escape pods
light/fighter craft
From that, I can figure out all the rest of the ship for RPGing in.
Stuff like:
Number of crew
Ship function (cruiser, freighter, luxury liner, scout, stealth, pirate, sci-lab, starbase, generation ship, hollowed asteroid , etc.)
weapons
fuel duration
speed
agility
defense shields
escape pods
light/fighter craft
From that, I can figure out all the rest of the ship for RPGing in.
captainquirk
Mongoose
It's worth browsing one or other of the existing PD products - D20 or GURPS just to see what they contain in this regard. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't get re-written from PD product line to product line. All the SFU "fluff" remains the same, the only thing unique to each PD product line are the rules specific to the RPG game engine.
Much of what you are looking for already exists within the already published PD background material.
If ADB followed the expressed desires of the Traveller community (and previous posts on the subject suggested they did listen) then PD Traveller should hopefully include enough stats to run RPG space combat for at least a few iconic starships.
This is conjecture however, I don't have any insider knowledge.
Much of what you are looking for already exists within the already published PD background material.
If ADB followed the expressed desires of the Traveller community (and previous posts on the subject suggested they did listen) then PD Traveller should hopefully include enough stats to run RPG space combat for at least a few iconic starships.
This is conjecture however, I don't have any insider knowledge.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
I hope the book uses the same career gen style as other RPGs written for Mongoose Traveller.
Shawn said he wants just a lost of stuff about the ship. Most of it is in there:
Number of crew --- Yes, derived from SFB
Ship function (cruiser, freighter, etc.) --- Yes.
weapons --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
fuel duration --- No spcific number given, not needed in SFB/FedCmdr.
speed --- No, because all SFU ships run at about the same speed. (See below)
agility --- During combat, Turn Mode and "nimble" come into play, otherwise not needed.
defense shields --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
escape pods --- None ever shown in SFB. The pod can get you fifty kilometers away from the ship, but when that blows up it leaves a twenty-five THOUSAND kilometer crater in space, escape pods are pretty much useless.
light/fighter craft --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
Note about speed: at combat speed (less than warp 3.1), all ships fly at a speed based on how much power they have after deducting for charging weapons and such, and reduced for damage, and all accellerate at much the same rate. Once you jump to "high warp" for strategic speed, all ships were presumed to mvoe at the same speed within a few categories. See this document:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Warp_Speed_in_SFU.pdf
However, I wrote an article, published in Captain's Log # 34, that explains that there is slight variations within those categories. IShirt version: smaller ships accellerate better than large ships, but larger ships have a higher top speed. Ergo, a frigate can outrun a cruiser for a short distance (hopefully long enough to get out of sensor range), but a B-10 battleship that's up to full speed will walk away from the rest of the fleet.
Number of crew --- Yes, derived from SFB
Ship function (cruiser, freighter, etc.) --- Yes.
weapons --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
fuel duration --- No spcific number given, not needed in SFB/FedCmdr.
speed --- No, because all SFU ships run at about the same speed. (See below)
agility --- During combat, Turn Mode and "nimble" come into play, otherwise not needed.
defense shields --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
escape pods --- None ever shown in SFB. The pod can get you fifty kilometers away from the ship, but when that blows up it leaves a twenty-five THOUSAND kilometer crater in space, escape pods are pretty much useless.
light/fighter craft --- Yes, straight off the SFB / FedCmdr SSD.
Note about speed: at combat speed (less than warp 3.1), all ships fly at a speed based on how much power they have after deducting for charging weapons and such, and reduced for damage, and all accellerate at much the same rate. Once you jump to "high warp" for strategic speed, all ships were presumed to mvoe at the same speed within a few categories. See this document:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Warp_Speed_in_SFU.pdf
However, I wrote an article, published in Captain's Log # 34, that explains that there is slight variations within those categories. IShirt version: smaller ships accellerate better than large ships, but larger ships have a higher top speed. Ergo, a frigate can outrun a cruiser for a short distance (hopefully long enough to get out of sensor range), but a B-10 battleship that's up to full speed will walk away from the rest of the fleet.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Putraack said:
I'm not interested in having to buy other PD books in order to play PD. Otherwise, what's the point of a PD for Traveller then? My players aren't gonna buy the other books. That's for sure.
Nobody is saying you'll have to. What we're all saying is thus far ADB has ported everything over from one game engine to the others, changing only that which is specific to a given game engine. There is no reason to think they won't copy all the data you want, which is in GUPRS and D20 now, over to Traveller and convert the parts that need it. You may need to buy up to four separate PD-Traveller books: core rules book plus one book each for Feds, Klingons, and Romulans, just as the GUPRS and D20 players did. (Of course, you can get by with just the core rulebook.) The two big hold ups, from what I gather reading these same public boards, was Jean's retirement and move to Texas, and demands from Mongoose. The first item is done, and someone said this project is at the top of her to-do list now. If this is all correct, I'm sure she'll get it back on track PDQ.
Is that the system where you have to spend an hour rolling dice to see what your character did for twenty years before retiring in order to have a decent useful-skills list? I remember trying the original Traveller back in 1983 and absolutely HATED that system.ShawnDriscoll said:
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Sgt_G said:
Mongoose Traveller doesn't use Classic Traveller's limited CharGen. Are you in the right forum?
mechascorpio
Mongoose
ShawnDriscoll said:
Good to know that folks working on this game supplement are so familiar with the game itself. :shock:
I am NOT working on a Traveller-specific supplement. I am doing a set of deck plans that can be printed in any game, be it GURPS or D20 or Traveller or whatever. I'll leave it up to whomever writes said book to convert the background data into game terms.
When I started this project, it was for my own amusment because ADB had no interest at that time in RPGs or deck plans. As such, I was not tied down to any restrictions set by the game (i.e., room dimentions are not limited to multiples of 1.5 meters) but rather went for a ship that looked as realistic as possible.
When I started this project, it was for my own amusment because ADB had no interest at that time in RPGs or deck plans. As such, I was not tied down to any restrictions set by the game (i.e., room dimentions are not limited to multiples of 1.5 meters) but rather went for a ship that looked as realistic as possible.
Do the deckplans you are developing use Traveller standard sizes/assumptions for rooms and facilities?Sgt_G said:
What floorplan/area does a typical stateroom have in your plans, and do Traveller volumes in dTons work from the standard MgT starship rules for the ships you are designing?
If not, what volumes/areas/rules are ships layouts and construction details calculated from?
As I said, I did not tie myself down to any particular game system when drafting the deck plans. Crew quarters and such are what they are because that was the area required for a bed, nightstand, dresser, wall locker (armoire), and small table with a chair or two. On average, they are 3.75 x 4.75 meters. There are some that are 3.625 x 4.875 meters because that was what fit in the space I had to use (i.e., after I had locked down other features). Officer two-room suites are mostly 7.75 x 4.25 meters.
Here's a view (albeit very blury) of Deck Three - forward:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/38/deck_plan_example.pdf
This has the bridge, transporter, tractor, and armory, and six officer suites. The corridor is 1.5 meters wide (picked because it fit, not because of Traveller's use of 1.5m squares).
The Burke-class frigate plans were published a number of years back. Here's a sample of that ship:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/deckplan/Fed_FFG_Sample.pdf
Nick Blank did those, and again he went for realism and what "fit" without regard to any grid overlay.
That being said, I can measure out the actual area / volumn of the ship, and then whomever writes the game data will be able to make the conversions from real-world numbers to game terms.
Here's a view (albeit very blury) of Deck Three - forward:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/38/deck_plan_example.pdf
This has the bridge, transporter, tractor, and armory, and six officer suites. The corridor is 1.5 meters wide (picked because it fit, not because of Traveller's use of 1.5m squares).
The Burke-class frigate plans were published a number of years back. Here's a sample of that ship:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/deckplan/Fed_FFG_Sample.pdf
Nick Blank did those, and again he went for realism and what "fit" without regard to any grid overlay.
That being said, I can measure out the actual area / volumn of the ship, and then whomever writes the game data will be able to make the conversions from real-world numbers to game terms.
IanBruntlett
Emperor Mongoose
Looks OK to me. Looking forward to seeing the ships in print.
captainquirk
Mongoose
It isn't likely to be possible to design a Star Fleet Universe starship using the standard Traveller rules, and I'm pretty sure that ADB responded to this effect on one of the earlier PD Traveller threads. There are very different concepts. An SFU ship actually carries a very small number of weapons in comparison to an "official" Traveller ship of the line. I doubt that SFU ships and Third Imperium ships are going to mix at all well together.
What HAS been said on earlier threads was that there would be an RPG starship combat system using a modified version of the Traveller core rules. Obviously there will need to be changes there too - Third Imperium ships don't have shields, and SFU ships don't use sandcasters or black globes.
I'm pretty sure I remember the proposal being that we get a combat system, enough stats to run some of the iconic ships... and no design system.
Not sure it would be needed - at a wild guess there must be around 4-5000 ship designs already existing in the SFU, and it ought to be possible to work out roughly what most of them are like given the RPG stats for one or two of the vessels from a particular race. Even the ones that aren't published for Traveller.
Again, I don't work for ADB or Mongoose, so this is merely a view, and product development may have led off in another direction. We really need an update from Jean when she has settled in her new location and role; she'll be the one with the real news.
What HAS been said on earlier threads was that there would be an RPG starship combat system using a modified version of the Traveller core rules. Obviously there will need to be changes there too - Third Imperium ships don't have shields, and SFU ships don't use sandcasters or black globes.
I'm pretty sure I remember the proposal being that we get a combat system, enough stats to run some of the iconic ships... and no design system.
Not sure it would be needed - at a wild guess there must be around 4-5000 ship designs already existing in the SFU, and it ought to be possible to work out roughly what most of them are like given the RPG stats for one or two of the vessels from a particular race. Even the ones that aren't published for Traveller.
Again, I don't work for ADB or Mongoose, so this is merely a view, and product development may have led off in another direction. We really need an update from Jean when she has settled in her new location and role; she'll be the one with the real news.
Yes, I'm in the right forum. Is this not where one comes to ask questions about Traveller? No, I don't have Mongoose Traveller (or any other versions), but I saw your YouTube video about the actor become emperor. Very funny. Did you name him Ronald, by any chance? So, it looked at first glance to be much the same idea. I picked up Traveller supplement #3 yesterday, and while at the store I did flip thru the core rulebook. Again, I didn't read it in detail, but it seemed the same stuff as I remember.ShawnDriscoll said:
If I were to spend time getting back into RPG, I'd probably want to do GURPS. I haven't played D20, but I hear it's a good system.
