Prime Directive Traveller

[rust]

In the early TOS episodes there was a female Yeoman
named Janice Rand, probably one of the series' early
attempts to include some "eye candy" to compensate
the viewers for weak plots. Since yeoman is an enlis-
ted rank, there obviously were not only officers on the
original Enterprise.

 

[BFalcon]

rust: actually "yeoman" is a position, not a rank in star fleet... check the cuffs when you watch it next... she's an ensign (yes, I know it's a PO's rating in the USN... but they weren't that consistant with their naval stuff). If you notice, she's always asking the captain to sign something or bringing him food/drink. The yeoman is the captain's administration assistant and batman all in one - to handle all the paperwork he needs to get done so he can concentrate on the job in hand and to make sure he has time for something to eat once in a while when he's distracted.

Truth is, I think Gene Roddenberry just wasn't that clued up on naval ranks, I suspect - he was more interested in telling a story. When they did the concept, it was described as "Rawhide in space", which kinda tells you the level of detail they were aiming for...

 

[Greg Smith]

Truth is, I think Gene Roddenberry just wasn't that clued up on naval ranks,

He was in the airforce, which might explain that.

 

[BFalcon]

Might well do, Greg... although I'm a little curious as to why he shouldn't still have thought of the enlisted men - unless he took the "only pilots can be astronauts and since only officers can be pilots..." route?

Of course, and it pains me to say it, he may not have cared overmuch and just wanted to get a new ratings-grabbing TV show out there... so wasn't too interested in keeping an eye on his writers too closely.

 

[zero]

^ Thats a fair point (infact a few have been made since I last posted) but I find a ship full of 2nd and 1st Lts as crew under a Captain, a bit unbelievable, seeing as there was more crew to the Enterprise than who was on the bridge (who I could be happy with all the main characters being officers, just not everyone) - I'm not up on the numbers, but its a big ship with a crew past a hundred maybe? A hundred Lts on a single ship?
What if the Klingons took the ship out? What a waste of resources!
Is Starfleet letting every man and his son into a commission or something?

Also why wasnt Rand in the new Star Trek movie?

 

[Hans Rancke]

Roddenberry did think of Starfleet as being composed of astronauts, so everybody aboard a starship was an officer. The enlisted men were introduced later. Miles O'Brien was New Era (and IIRC he had lieutenant's insignia at one point).

Enterprise supposedly had a crew of 430. Though some of them seemed to be missing, such as the First Officer, the Chief Navigator, and the Chief Communication officer (There was a blueprint of the Enterprise with crew specifications; there were supposed to be a First Officer AND a Science Officer, and the department heads were (again supposedly) lt. commanders).


Hans

 

[BFalcon]

Yes, Spock held both the Science and First Officer positions - presumably because the Science Officer has little to do in combat roles and the First Officer has little to do in the science missions and the fact that he was so efficient in both roles. Chief Navigator was filled by Chekov in the later episodes, but whether this was added later or actually appeared in the series, I'm unsure. I know he wasn't a LtCdr though - but then they may have decided that the Navigator wasn't an important enough role to warrant a full Dept. Head rank. The Chief of Comms was Uhura... which is why she's on the bridge most times when Kirk is. I think (not sure) but she may have been referred to as such in the episode with the Elana of Troy when the complains about her quarters - Kirk replies (if I recall) that his chief of communications volunteered to give up her quarters. Just going on memory though, so may be wrong.

 

[Greg Smith]

Enterprise supposedly had a crew of 430. Though some of them seemed to be missing, such as the First Officer,

Number One (she never had a name) was originally the first officer in the pilot episode, but the network wouldn't accept a woman in such a senior role.

 

[rust]

rust: actually "yeoman" is a position, not a rank in star fleet... check the cuffs when you watch it next... she's an ensign

According to Memory Alpha she became an ensign in 2281,
about ten years after she had left the original Enterprise:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Janice_Rand

 

[BFalcon]

no idea where they got that from... ah well.

 

[Greg Smith]

rust: actually "yeoman" is a position, not a rank in star fleet... check the cuffs when you watch it next... she's an ensign

She doesn't appear to have any rank insignia in the TOS images I've googled.

According to Memory Alpha she became an ensign in 2281,
about ten years after she had left the original Enterprise:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Janice_Rand

She has enlisted rank in TMP (2271). She is a officer in STIII (2285) and later films.

 

[BFalcon]

rust: actually "yeoman" is a position, not a rank in star fleet... check the cuffs when you watch it next... she's an ensign

She doesn't appear to have any rank insignia in the TOS images I've googled.

Exactly - no stripes = Ensign = Commissioned Officer in TOS. Other episodes, they clearly state the rank when talking to them and introducing the characters.

I'd have thought that they'd have had some kind of rank insignia for the enlisted men - Officers tend to like to differentiate themselves from the rest of the crew. The only insignia that most have are the ship insignia and the specialty insignia on their left breast.

 

[Greg Smith]

Exactly - no stripes = Ensign = Commissioned Officer in TOS.

Both my Star Trek Encyclopedia and Memory Alpha state no stripes is for both enlisted and Ensign.

I would think that Rand is a CPO on TMP would bear out that she was enlisted in TOS.

 

[BFalcon]

And I think you'll find that the FJ Technical Manual, contemporary to the TOS, says just Ensign. Later I think they realised their mistake and "fudged" it.

Can you honestly believe that the yeoman is the only non-comm on the whole ship during TOS, or that, if present, they're not allowed to speak to any major officer, nor go on any landing parties?

Quite frankly, I'm less interested in what someone thought would be a good piece of damage limitation after the event and more in what the TOS had in for many years.

And please stop quoting wikis at me... just because someone says it's so later on... but since you are, I checked it earlier and doesn't have any enlisted ranks on the entry for the TOS era - the blank cuff, under ranks, clearly states "Ensign" - nothing about "Enlisted" at all.

 

[Greg Smith]

And I think you'll find that the FJ Technical Manual, contemporary to the TOS, says just Ensign. Later I think they realised their mistake and "fudged" it.

Just checked my FJ TM. It does indeed say the no stripe is ensign.

Can you honestly believe that the yeoman is the only non-comm on the whole ship during TOS, or that, if present, they're not allowed to speak to any major officer, nor go on any landing parties?

No, just that they weren't seen on screen. Or as you say, it was a mistake.

And please stop quoting wikis at me... just because someone says it's so later on... but since you are, I checked it earlier and doesn't have any enlisted ranks on the entry for the TOS era - the blank cuff, under ranks, clearly states "Ensign" - nothing about "Enlisted" at all.

Actually it does. 2266 Rank insignia, no insignia - enlisted, ensign.

The only section showing no sleeve insignia as ensign is for the new movie/alternate history.

Out of curiosity, does the Star Fleet universe/Prime Directive follow the FJ TM and have all starship crew officers?

 

[BFalcon]

Hmm... I'd have thought that it would be the other way around - the film would acknowledge the presence of non-comms...

Just found this... to pour more petrol on the fire...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Yeoman

There were several yeoman positions on the Enterprise (all female as well) - apparently some were officers - so if they're wearing officer ranks, how do we know the others weren't Ensigns too, if no mention was made in the series?

As for the FJ ranks being used in PD, I don't know - would be an interesting point.

 

[Hans Rancke]

Whether Rand was enlisted or not really depends on whether you go by Roddenberry's original intentions or by the rationalizations that later writers introduced retroactively. Since the nature of a retcon is to establish that the change it introduces is not a chance but that things always were like that, I'd say that 40 years ago she was an ensign, but that today she was enlisted (while she served on the Enterprise) and that we should pretend that she always has been.


Hans

 

[Greg Smith]

To further fan the flames, (and sorry quoting a wiki):

In The Cage there seems to be a CPO rank, with insignia on the sleeve. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Garison Take a close look at the picture.

Now I have seen this insignia listed elsewhere on the web as CPO, but there is no mention of it in the encyclopedia. The character is listed as 'CPO Garrison' in the credits of the Menagerie at IMBD.

The Cage does only seem to have one solid stripe for officers, this CPO insignia and no stripe (example Yeoman Colt).

And I agree Yeoman, certainly appears to be a position rather than a rank in Starfleet.

 

[Jean]

PD and the SFU realize that it takes both officers and enlisted personnel to make a ship work. The core rulebook will discuss that.

In fact, try this link: http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/index.shtml#PD

You'll find we have play aids so you know exactly what insignia is used with a rank.

I hope that helps!

 

[Hans Rancke]

PD and the SFU realize that it takes both officers and enlisted personnel to make a ship work.

Why? You need ranks and a chain of command, but why shouldn't an organization be able to work perfectly fine without the arbitrary separation into two chains? Police and fire departments seem to manage just fine.

(Note that I'm not saying that Starfleet hasn't evolved away from its original everyone-is-an-officer paradigm in the 40 years since the beginning. I'm not even saying that an officer/enlisted split doesn't have advantages (though I'm not so sure that is true and not just a convention born of historical events). But you seem to be saying that such a split is necessary to make a ship work, and I wonder if that isn't an unsupported assumption.)


Hans