Preview 3 is out

seanwalsh

Mongoose
More about magic and runes.

One concern of mine:
One of the cool things about class based systems, like DnD, is character diversity is built in. From what little I've seen thus far, it seems like Runequest has all players striving for the same goals. So far I've seen nothing to make the characters seem different. Players being what they are will often try to maximize benefit and minimize harm, so if there are no rules based reasons for diversity, won't all characters tend to look and feel the "same"?
Will the Cults serve this function? How will characters, members of different Cults, band together?
 

andakitty

Mongoose
The 'diversity' in DnD is forced, though, I think. Usually in Basic Role-Playing (BRP) games ( to which we can already say there is a VERY close relationship) there is a group of skills that define what the player can do up to that point in their lives. These can be enhanced or overcome, which starts building diversity right at the beginning. If they don't include some lifepath or 'advantage' system it's easy to add (assuming your players don't spread out and develop diverse characters on their own)...if you still think it's necessary. Also the stats themselves frequently suggest a certain type of character. As in old DnD, high STR or DEX suggest certain types of characters. In this style of game if a PC has high POW magic is the way to go. If you have a low POW and a high DEX you have a natural thief, who might want to develop along different paths than a high POW character, who will be ,well, more powerful at magic. Now I'm thinking of non-Glorantha type settings. I don't know how they are going to diverge character goals in MRQ, at least for Glorantha. I can tell you that in the old RQ2 their were two ways to go...you either worked toward being a Rune Lord (a really good fighter) or a Rune Priest. The latter tended to differentiate due to cult. Different cults had different skills to be enhanced, their own spells (different from other cults, beyond Battle Magic) and their own restrictions. They were not characters that looked like clones of each other, believe me. There was a world of difference between a Humakti Rune Priest and a Rune Priest of Kygor Litor, for instance. Then there were the Shamans.

Anyway, the characters in RQ DO diversify, just with different motives and mechanics. The main difference in my mind is that you get more choice in the matter.
 
I usuall find people will usually have different ideas about what they want their characters to be and achieve, if they are given a little time and asked the right questions. A very good model for this is the game of twenty questions in L5r, which can easily be adapted for any system.
 

Halfbat

Mongoose
seanwalsh said:
Players being what they are will often try to maximize benefit and minimize harm, so if there are no rules based reasons for diversity, won't all characters tend to look and feel the "same"?
Whilst the class system enforces character diversity at the outset, we found that the freedom offered by a skills-based development system (background notwithstanding) helps in several ways, some of which are:
  • - Players end up adapting some skills to the campaign quicker so characters don't get isolated so much
    - Characters become more flexible (though I appreciate you are worried about the homogeneity) but often with a particular focus
    - Players can adapt their characters to any concept they have much more readily as the campaign progresses: characters are developed in ways they prefer and see fit rather than being constrained by a class system*
    - As a result, character development ends up much more diverse as each player sees advantages in different ways
Hope this helps!
 

Archer

Mongoose
L5R is a game that truly shows that you can have classes, and still have infinite diversity. I do not think I have seen two "clone characters" in L5R the way I have in D&D, due to the fact that skills, advantages, disadvantages, etc. play a more vital role and are choices made by the player. In D&D you do not have much choice beyond class, race, and feats.

But enough of that. Regarding Preview3, I have to say; Whow! Mongoose have made the magic system _just_ the way I want it.
I am very happy with this :D
 

andakitty

Mongoose
Yes, the old Bard games managed to be leveled systems with 'room for customization' too. Particularly the Arcanum. It's certainly not impossible but it still feels wooden and artificial to me on some primeval level.
 

ned-kogar

Mongoose
Hmmm..

From what Preview 3 suggests, Rune Magic - as a replacement for battle / spirit magic - worries me.

If runic integration is required, and runes are quite rare or expensive, then once attuned to a rune, characters are much more likely to learn only other spells associated with that rune, almost making 'rune classes' - appropriate when characters have committed wholeheartedly to a god, but not much cop for low-level characters.. and possibly reducing diversificiation.

Gone are the days when a low-level character could simply buy / learn a neat, individualistic selection of spells (from a cult, or shaman) - will a Gloranthan individual really have to attune a Fire rune to get the previously common 'Ignite' spell? And does he really need to then become 'Rune touched' and 50% resitant to flame?

I hope I've misinterpreted this somehow.. or that it works differently in Glorantha.. Although it does justify the game's name, at last..
 

Wulf Corbett

Mongoose
ned-kogar said:
If runic integration is required, and runes are quite rare or expensive, then once attuned to a rune, characters are much more likely to learn only other spells associated with that rune, almost making 'rune classes' - appropriate when characters have committed wholeheartedly to a god, but not much cop for low-level characters.. and possibly reducing diversificiation.
Remember this is Rune Magic, the equivalent of the old Divine Magic. It's virtually the same situation as HeroQuest magic - you can cast any spell your God grants you the Rune for. In fact, I intend to extend this, and re-use the HeroQuest concepts of Feats and Runes.

Battle/Spirit magic will be in the Glorantha Book.

Wulf
 

ned-kogar

Mongoose
Remember this is Rune Magic, the equivalent of the old Divine Magic. It's virtually the same situation as HeroQuest magic - you can cast any spell your God grants you the Rune for. In fact, I intend to extend this, and re-use the HeroQuest concepts of Feats and Runes.

Battle/Spirit magic will be in the Glorantha Book.

Wulf

That would be good, and I value your reassurance, but are you sure?:

"Rune Magic: By far the most common type of magic in
Glorantha"

"Divine Magic: A variant of magic that bypasses the need
for runes and allows practitioners to access the power of
their god directly."

Ned
 

wartorn

Mongoose
seanwalsh said:
One concern of mine:
One of the cool things about class based systems, like DnD, is character diversity is built in. From what little I've seen thus far, it seems like Runequest has all players striving for the same goals. So far I've seen nothing to make the characters seem different. Players being what they are will often try to maximize benefit and minimize harm, so if there are no rules based reasons for diversity, won't all characters tend to look and feel the "same"?
Will the Cults serve this function? How will characters, members of different Cults, band together?

Hmm. I think 'backgrounds', if they're anything like RQ3, will help a lot with this problem. First the skill allotments between characters of different backgrounds can be radicaly different. Second, the title of the background suggests what role your character will fulfill (though admittedly Farmer and Fisher leave that pretty open!). Like any of us, RQ characters all have the same potential, but different ones will focus in different areas based on where their talents (read: highest skills/attributes) lie.

I find the Class system great for combat-focussed gaming where it's important to know your tactical role. The RQ system is more rewarding to the roleplayer since it better models real world strengths and limitations. A Figther is always a Fighter, but a Fisherman who learned how to fight... is an Angry Peasant!
 

SteveMND

Mongoose
Actually, I find the new 'rune magic' system rather compelling.

One of the things I always was a little saddened at in previous editions was that there was so little 'rune' in RuneQuest. So much so, that when developing my own campaign world, I made the runes paramount in the world's history, and started working on a method by which magic was done by achieving mastery over specific runes.

With MGPRQ, it looks like they are adopting that same stance, although I can understand some concerns over the issue of a character possibly being 'pigeonholed' into a specific rune; the 'runetouched' bonuses for most runes are powerful enough to imply that they should be rare to actually obtain more than one or two.*

That said, I can wait until the game is out before making my final determination. At that point, I may well just adopt some of my own home-brew ideas to the MGPRQ runic system, such as having an individual skill for each seperate rune you know (there are fewer runes in my world), and not adopting the 'runetouched' aspect until you ae a Master (90%+) at that rune.

Steve M

* anybody else noticed that they seem to be 'ratcheting up' the power scale for this version? Full MP back in 10 hours instead of 24 hours, and all back with a good night's sleep? It also looks like it's more likely to get multiple attacks per round than in previous editions, etc. The power scale's change is not a good thing or a bad thing necessarily; just something I noticed.
 

t-tauri

Mongoose
Have to go along with the apparent raising of the power level. These rune touched things have the same cost (1 point of POW) as a basic Rune Spell but the power level is much higher.


As regards the Runes it depends how you ran the game, I suppose. If it was about climbing levels in cults then the Rune Mastery aspect was emphasised.
 

Banesfinger

Mongoose
SteveMND said:
anybody else noticed that they seem to be 'ratcheting up' the power scale for this version? Full MP back in 10 hours instead of 24 hours, and all back with a good night's sleep?

Not sure if this is a "Power-up" or "Action-up".

Let me explain. In RQ/D&D/etc spells or power points regenerate after a certain amount of time (generally each day).
It has been my observation that PCs will try and get around this obstical by limiting the amount of encounters they take-on each day.

For example: a group delves into a dungeon. Instead of rationing their power points for 5-10 rooms, they go against only 1 room and blow all their spells. Using this method, the group is MUCH more powerful. So you can see that using this method, a group becomes more powerful - regardless if their power restores in 1 day or 5 hours.

Also, what happens when a group runs out of spells/power points? They just make camp anyway. How much fun is this? 2-3 encounters, rest, repeat.

By increasing the power-point regeneration, you increase the encounters, and decrease the "down-time". Basically you keep all the "fun" stuff and get rid of the not-so-fun areas of the game.

Just an observation...
 

Archer

Mongoose
Banesfinger; I agree with you. If you are going to run an action scenario, you avoid a lot of downtime by doing it this way. And if you do not run an action scenario, it does not make that much of a difference anyway. So it is basically a win-win situation.
 

DreadDomain

Mongoose
andakitty said:
I see references to 'persistence tests'. Suppose this is MRQ speak for 'resistance rolls'?

My guess is that a Persistence test is somewhat akin to a POWx5 test and a Resilience test (as seen under the Death rune of previous preview) is akin to a CONx5 test.

Now are they just fancy names to represent just that (like the Idea roll or Luck roll of Stormbringer) or are they skills based on POW or CON that you can increase through skill points and experience, I wouldn't know.

My guess is "fancy names".
 

andakitty

Mongoose
I was just looking at the Magic preview, and found out that Persistance is a skill...at least it is referred to as such in the Runes section.
 

Archer

Mongoose
andakitty said:
I was just looking at the Magic preview, and found out that Persistance is a skill...at least it is referred to as such in the Runes section.

And having personality characteristics as skills, that gives me a bad feeling about the whole system.
 

Archer

Mongoose
Wulf Corbett said:
Archer said:
And having personality characteristics as skills, that gives me a bad feeling about the whole system.
You mean like Charisma?

Wulf

Charisma is a skill???!

I was refering to Persistence, being stubborn, not giving up.
It is just plain weird to have such a characteristic as a skill.
 
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