prestige class form d&d flat books
- Thread starter sabathiel
- Start date
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
sabthiel said:
I would avoid incorporating DnD prestige classes into Conan. The classes in DnD, including the prestige classes, require magic items, the DnD magic system and the whole system for balance. Saves will be skewed, as will hit dice. Skill points and skill choices will be off.
Unless a prestige class fills a cultural gap that the core classes don't fill, you don't need them. The DnD splat books are too generic. Trust me, you can have fun with the game without DnD style prestige classes.
Warning: needlesly long post ahead. Those readers suffering from ADD need not bother :?
I'll assume that you mean the WotC splat books. :wink: Setting aside for the moment the debate about weither or not prestige classes should exist at all in Conan, here are some quick ideas. NOTE: I haven't worked extensevely on any of these or playtested any, this is work in progress. Also, this is not a comment on the balance of the Prc's in question, just a suggestion on converting it to Conan. You have been warned. 8)
Defenders of the Faith: wholy inapropriate, throw it out entierly.
Tome and Blood: wholy inapropriate, throw it out entierly.
Matter of fact don't even try to convert any Prc with spelcasting advancment, spell like abilities, or supernatural abilities. The only way to get any magic in Conan should be the scholar class with all the special restrictions that that entails. Moving on
Masters of the Wild: all the druid Prc's are out and rage works different in Conan than DnD so most of the barb Prc's are out, but we can still salvage somthing.
Bloodhound: good for a borderer who wants to be a mancatcher.
Requirements: same plus first Favored Terrain +2.
Hit Die: d10
Skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: 1/2
BPB: 1/2
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1:same
2:same plus fast tracking -> swift tracker (as per Conan)
3:same
4:same
5: drop shatter, drop trackless track. Add +1 to highest Favored Terrain but not to extra terrains
6: drop ignore scrying, drop locate creature. Add +1 to Second Favored Terrain, if he doesn't have a 2nd he gains Second Favored Terrain +1 chosen from same list as class that gave first terrain
7: drop see invisibility, drop fracture. Add Blind Fight as a bonus feat, Add new ability: Shatter; the character ignores 1/2 of object hardness round down
8: Subdual Resistance -> 10/-
9: drop Ignore Magical barriers. Add Iron Will as bonus feat
10: drop Find the Path. Add +1 to both First and Second Favored Terrain.
Deepwood sniper: overpowered, but it can work.
Requirements: same
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same but drop Keen Arrows and add Poison Use as a bonus feat
2: same but drop magic weapon and drop projectile improved crit. Add projectile improved AP +1
3: droop safe poison use, add Improved Crit with same weapon as has Weapon Focus in as a bonus feat
4: same
5: same
6: same but drop keen edge
7: same but drop projectile improved crit. Add projectile improved AP +2
8: same
9: same
10: same but drop true strike and add Greater Crit with same weapon as Imp Crit
Exotic Weapon Master: the Barb does it better with his Versitality
Foe Hunter: doesn't work in concept.
Frenzied Berserker: I suppose the concept could work in Conan, but the mechanics are all wrong. Needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Might come back to this one later.
Hexer: a Barb/Scholar multiclass with Curses is more apropriate
King of the Wild: the border does it better
Tempest: already handled by the standard TWF progression in Conan
Watch detective: mechanically it could be ported, but the flavor is all wrong. Too "fantasy magi-tech" with the pseudo modern detective.
All the other Prc's that I skipped I did so because it should be obvious on the face of it that they won't work for Conan.
Song and Silence: some of the more DnD-flavored Prc's just don't work (fang of loloth, temple raider) as well as some of the more, modern, Prc's (spymaster, vigilante) but that still leaves quite a few good choices.
Dread Pirate: Conan already has the single best pirate class in existance. Period. Why look anywhere else?
Dungeon Delver: can work well for Conan
requirements: same plus Eyes of the Cat
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: 3/4
BDB: good
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same
2: same
3: same
4: drop reduce. Add a +10 circumstance bonus to Escape Artist checks
5: nothing
6: same
7: drop Treasure Sense. Add a +10 circumstance bonus to Appraise checks and a +2 bonus to will saves when encountering a "kings ransom" of treasure
8: same
9: nothing
10: drop Phase Door. increase circumstance bonus to Escape Artist to +20
Outlaw of the Crimson Road: mechanically it can be ported straight up. Flavor wise I am a bit iffy, I mean everybody in Conan is an outlaw! But here goes
requirements: same
HD: d8
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class Abilities over 10 levels: same
Royal Explorer: the bonus languages are superfolus in Conan, so drop them in favor of more skill points. Otherwise this one is also mechinacially sound. Although you may have to play with the flavor some (Notional Geographic: the Hyborean Age)
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: 8 points, same list
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: drop bonus languages as I said. And, what the hell, give em Endurance at 1st and Die Hard at 5th. That should do
Thief Acrobat: now this one is very good for a Conan game, both mechanically and flavor wise.
Requirements: same but drop evasion
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same but at 3rd change Improved Evasion -> evasion
Sword and Fist: Now this is a goldmine for Conan. Still, not everything applies, particularly the wierd monk-based ki-using classes (Red Avenger I'm looking at you)
Cavalier: great for knights from Pontain
requirements: same
HD d10
skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: poor
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same plus the Mounted Weapon Bonus should apply to AP as well as attack rolls
Devoted Defender: Bombata anyone? The deflect Attack ability doesn't make much sense anymore since you can use harm's way to switch places with your charge and then use your Parry DV anyway, so I'm droping it.
requirements: same plus improved init
HD: d12
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same
2: same
3: drop deflect attack. Add toughness as a bonus feat
4: same
5: drop deflect attack.
6: same
7: drop deflect attack.
8: same
9: drop deflect attack. Add Iron Will as a bonus feat
10: same
Drunken Master: for the more light hearted Conan game. And am I the only one who thinks that a Pirate/Drunken Master would make a damn good Captain Jack Sparrow knock off? :shock:
requirements: same but drop evasion
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same except as follows. First ignore all the 3.0 nonsense about unarmed itterative attacks at -3 instead of -5. Second the For Medicinal Purposes ability no longer treates a drink as a potion of cure light; instead the ability allows you to 1/day take a drink to gain the benefits of a successiful short term care Heal check, use of this ability is a standard action that provokes an AoO and it prevents you from recieving normal short term care for that encounter. Finally drop the Breath of Flame ability. Instead at 10th level the drunken master can now use For Medicinal Purposes ability 3/day.
Duelist: play a pirate and take Intricate Swordplay
Gladiator: also very Conanesque
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: average
BPB: aberage
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same
Halfling Outrider: setting aside for a moment the fact that there are no halflings, the Nomad already fills this niche.
Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom: there is no shinning beacon of truth, justice, and the Aquilonian way in Conan.
Lasher: I don't think that this is very apropriate flavor wise but maybe, just maybe, there might be some crazy ex-slaver or something somewhere who likes the whip. And the whip is a nasty enough weapon for Conan (I'm sure that Frazeta would have loved to draw a sorcorer menacing the beautiful damsiel with a whip instead of a dagger on occasion :wink: ) So I'll do this one anyway.
requirements: same (but note that whip daggers DO NOT exist in Conan :x )
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same except Crack of Fate and Crack of Doom do not incur the -2 and -4 penalties respectievly.
Master of Chains: over my dead body :roll:
Master Samurai: even if your campagin makes it all the way to Lemuria I don't think that this class is a very good fit. Just use a soldier in Japanese armor.
Ninja of the Crescent Moon: see my comments on Master Samurai and replace "soldier" with "thief"
Order of the Bow Initiate: the whole "Zen Archery" thing probably only works if your character is from Khitai or Vendhya, but if you can find another excuse for the flavor the machanics aren't that bad (munchkin, but they work)
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same. That's not to say that it isn't one of the more twinkish classes out there, just that the abilities nestle with the rules of Conan ok.
Ravager: just take Stunning Fist and Menacing Aura
Tribal Protector: is a multiclass Barbarian/Borderer
Warmaster: is a multiclass Soldier/Noble
Weapon Master: is a soldier with Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Spec, and Greater Crit
By Crom thats a lot of Prc's! I hope that helps, not by giving you a list of classes but by seeing the pattern in what classes I chose and what I left out. If you have any questions feel free to ask them.... later
My hands are cramped
I'll assume that you mean the WotC splat books. :wink: Setting aside for the moment the debate about weither or not prestige classes should exist at all in Conan, here are some quick ideas. NOTE: I haven't worked extensevely on any of these or playtested any, this is work in progress. Also, this is not a comment on the balance of the Prc's in question, just a suggestion on converting it to Conan. You have been warned. 8)
Defenders of the Faith: wholy inapropriate, throw it out entierly.
Tome and Blood: wholy inapropriate, throw it out entierly.
Matter of fact don't even try to convert any Prc with spelcasting advancment, spell like abilities, or supernatural abilities. The only way to get any magic in Conan should be the scholar class with all the special restrictions that that entails. Moving on
Masters of the Wild: all the druid Prc's are out and rage works different in Conan than DnD so most of the barb Prc's are out, but we can still salvage somthing.
Bloodhound: good for a borderer who wants to be a mancatcher.
Requirements: same plus first Favored Terrain +2.
Hit Die: d10
Skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: 1/2
BPB: 1/2
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1:same
2:same plus fast tracking -> swift tracker (as per Conan)
3:same
4:same
5: drop shatter, drop trackless track. Add +1 to highest Favored Terrain but not to extra terrains
6: drop ignore scrying, drop locate creature. Add +1 to Second Favored Terrain, if he doesn't have a 2nd he gains Second Favored Terrain +1 chosen from same list as class that gave first terrain
7: drop see invisibility, drop fracture. Add Blind Fight as a bonus feat, Add new ability: Shatter; the character ignores 1/2 of object hardness round down
8: Subdual Resistance -> 10/-
9: drop Ignore Magical barriers. Add Iron Will as bonus feat
10: drop Find the Path. Add +1 to both First and Second Favored Terrain.
Deepwood sniper: overpowered, but it can work.
Requirements: same
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same but drop Keen Arrows and add Poison Use as a bonus feat
2: same but drop magic weapon and drop projectile improved crit. Add projectile improved AP +1
3: droop safe poison use, add Improved Crit with same weapon as has Weapon Focus in as a bonus feat
4: same
5: same
6: same but drop keen edge
7: same but drop projectile improved crit. Add projectile improved AP +2
8: same
9: same
10: same but drop true strike and add Greater Crit with same weapon as Imp Crit
Exotic Weapon Master: the Barb does it better with his Versitality
Foe Hunter: doesn't work in concept.
Frenzied Berserker: I suppose the concept could work in Conan, but the mechanics are all wrong. Needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Might come back to this one later.
Hexer: a Barb/Scholar multiclass with Curses is more apropriate
King of the Wild: the border does it better
Tempest: already handled by the standard TWF progression in Conan
Watch detective: mechanically it could be ported, but the flavor is all wrong. Too "fantasy magi-tech" with the pseudo modern detective.
All the other Prc's that I skipped I did so because it should be obvious on the face of it that they won't work for Conan.
Song and Silence: some of the more DnD-flavored Prc's just don't work (fang of loloth, temple raider) as well as some of the more, modern, Prc's (spymaster, vigilante) but that still leaves quite a few good choices.
Dread Pirate: Conan already has the single best pirate class in existance. Period. Why look anywhere else?
Dungeon Delver: can work well for Conan
requirements: same plus Eyes of the Cat
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: 3/4
BDB: good
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same
2: same
3: same
4: drop reduce. Add a +10 circumstance bonus to Escape Artist checks
5: nothing
6: same
7: drop Treasure Sense. Add a +10 circumstance bonus to Appraise checks and a +2 bonus to will saves when encountering a "kings ransom" of treasure
8: same
9: nothing
10: drop Phase Door. increase circumstance bonus to Escape Artist to +20
Outlaw of the Crimson Road: mechanically it can be ported straight up. Flavor wise I am a bit iffy, I mean everybody in Conan is an outlaw! But here goes
requirements: same
HD: d8
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class Abilities over 10 levels: same
Royal Explorer: the bonus languages are superfolus in Conan, so drop them in favor of more skill points. Otherwise this one is also mechinacially sound. Although you may have to play with the flavor some (Notional Geographic: the Hyborean Age)
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: 8 points, same list
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: drop bonus languages as I said. And, what the hell, give em Endurance at 1st and Die Hard at 5th. That should do
Thief Acrobat: now this one is very good for a Conan game, both mechanically and flavor wise.
Requirements: same but drop evasion
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: 3/4
BDB: average
BPB: average
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same but at 3rd change Improved Evasion -> evasion
Sword and Fist: Now this is a goldmine for Conan. Still, not everything applies, particularly the wierd monk-based ki-using classes (Red Avenger I'm looking at you)
Cavalier: great for knights from Pontain
requirements: same
HD d10
skills: same
BAB: full
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: poor
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same plus the Mounted Weapon Bonus should apply to AP as well as attack rolls
Devoted Defender: Bombata anyone? The deflect Attack ability doesn't make much sense anymore since you can use harm's way to switch places with your charge and then use your Parry DV anyway, so I'm droping it.
requirements: same plus improved init
HD: d12
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: average
BPB: good
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
1: same
2: same
3: drop deflect attack. Add toughness as a bonus feat
4: same
5: drop deflect attack.
6: same
7: drop deflect attack.
8: same
9: drop deflect attack. Add Iron Will as a bonus feat
10: same
Drunken Master: for the more light hearted Conan game. And am I the only one who thinks that a Pirate/Drunken Master would make a damn good Captain Jack Sparrow knock off? :shock:
requirements: same but drop evasion
HD: d8
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same except as follows. First ignore all the 3.0 nonsense about unarmed itterative attacks at -3 instead of -5. Second the For Medicinal Purposes ability no longer treates a drink as a potion of cure light; instead the ability allows you to 1/day take a drink to gain the benefits of a successiful short term care Heal check, use of this ability is a standard action that provokes an AoO and it prevents you from recieving normal short term care for that encounter. Finally drop the Breath of Flame ability. Instead at 10th level the drunken master can now use For Medicinal Purposes ability 3/day.
Duelist: play a pirate and take Intricate Swordplay
Gladiator: also very Conanesque
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: average
BPB: aberage
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same
Halfling Outrider: setting aside for a moment the fact that there are no halflings, the Nomad already fills this niche.
Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom: there is no shinning beacon of truth, justice, and the Aquilonian way in Conan.
Lasher: I don't think that this is very apropriate flavor wise but maybe, just maybe, there might be some crazy ex-slaver or something somewhere who likes the whip. And the whip is a nasty enough weapon for Conan (I'm sure that Frazeta would have loved to draw a sorcorer menacing the beautiful damsiel with a whip instead of a dagger on occasion :wink: ) So I'll do this one anyway.
requirements: same (but note that whip daggers DO NOT exist in Conan :x )
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: good
Ref: good
Will: poor
Class abilities over 10 levels: same except Crack of Fate and Crack of Doom do not incur the -2 and -4 penalties respectievly.
Master of Chains: over my dead body :roll:
Master Samurai: even if your campagin makes it all the way to Lemuria I don't think that this class is a very good fit. Just use a soldier in Japanese armor.
Ninja of the Crescent Moon: see my comments on Master Samurai and replace "soldier" with "thief"
Order of the Bow Initiate: the whole "Zen Archery" thing probably only works if your character is from Khitai or Vendhya, but if you can find another excuse for the flavor the machanics aren't that bad (munchkin, but they work)
requirements: same
HD: d10
skills: same
BAB: good
BDB: good
BPB: poor
MAB: poor
Fort: poor
Ref: good
Will: good
Class abilities over 10 levels: same. That's not to say that it isn't one of the more twinkish classes out there, just that the abilities nestle with the rules of Conan ok.
Ravager: just take Stunning Fist and Menacing Aura
Tribal Protector: is a multiclass Barbarian/Borderer
Warmaster: is a multiclass Soldier/Noble
Weapon Master: is a soldier with Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Spec, and Greater Crit
By Crom thats a lot of Prc's! I hope that helps, not by giving you a list of classes but by seeing the pattern in what classes I chose and what I left out. If you have any questions feel free to ask them.... later
My hands are cramped
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
argo said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm impressed! That was a nice bit of effort there!
sanseveria
Mongoose
WOW, I too am very impressed. Though I don't plan on bringing any Prc in my game, this was a very interesting read. I may use a few of these to help work on a few NPC idea's.
Very well done,
SS
Very well done,
SS
The whole feel of the WoTC PrCs seems wrong for Conan. However some of Mongoose's PrCs from eg Quint Fighter & Quint Rogue, which have a much 'grittier' feel, might well be usable - they generally eschew magical/supernatural powers and have a more 'swords & sorcery' feel, whereas WoTC's PrCs feel very "D&D sui generis".