Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
BuShips said:
Yea, cos THATS why Wargaming is SOOOOOOOO much more popular than playing Console Games LMAO!
Pre-Paint or not Pre-Paint, that is the Question . . . . .
- Thread starter Doctor Who
- Start date
Yea, cos THATS why Wargaming is SOOOOOOOO much more popular than playing Console Games LMAO!
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
BuShips said:
My (very clumsy) point is, no amount of expenditure or new ideas, or fancy marketing will make Wargaming more mainstream than it already is.
LOTR ALMOST made it, but now the films are gone - so have the gamers for the most part.
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
Hmmm. Hmmm.
To say that there's a shift going on is correct; however, I do not agree that it is a long-term or permanent shift. I think it's more akin to a temporary cultural phenomenon...or a "blip."
People have ALWAYS been lazy...that's our nature. Technology has allowed that inherent laziness to really rear its ugly head in recent years. "Instant gratification" seems to be the expectation now, but there are all kinds of signs that people are actually becoming bored with having things simply handed to them.
Companies exist to make money, and in order to do that they have to give consumers what they want. That often means that companies must chase "fads." The really astute companies look in the longer term, and don't spend huge amounts of capital for short-term returns: they recognize that consumers are pretty fickle. The Atkins Diet is a perfect example: many companies jumped on the low-carb bandwagon, but Atkins is pretty much dead as fried chicken now, and those companies that put too much effort (and treasure) into chasing the low-carb fad are now posting losses and yet again revising their product lines.
I've said it before ad nauseum, and I'll say it again: the pre-paint idea is a fad. Personally, I've been wargaming for 30+ years now, and many of the other long-term posters on this forum have even more time in the hobby! What has kept us around for so long?
It's the HOBBY part of this thing called wargaming. It's the idea of doing something unique, creating something that is yours and yours alone. We're not all Master painters. But there is still some satisfaction when you put an army on the table that you had to build and paint. Even if it looks like sh*t compared to your opponent, Mr. Pretty Boy. I don't know about everybody else, but when I run into one of those smug, "I can paint like God" crowd, that just makes me that more determined to knock their d*ck in the dirt.
If we descend to pre-paints, then why not go one step farther and just play chess? White pieces. Black pieces. That's all. Nobody has to paint or assemble squat, and we're all equal. And I'm NOT knocking chess: I'm actually in awe of people that can play it.
The most gratifying example I've had of late that shows that ideas are changing was when I took several members of my Wargames Club to the FLGS. These are 15-16-17 year old boys. Not ONE of them even looked at any of the pre-paints from various companies. They wanted FoW, they wanted to build and paint, and they are still worrying the sh*t out of me for tips, techniques, etc. One even had balls enough to ask to borrow my Iwata airbrush!!!! :shock: After the beating, he learned an important life lesson: some questions you just don't ask. :lol:
I will reluctantly admit that pre-paints will be around for a while. I DO NOT believe that they are the "future" however. I really think it's incumbent upon ALL of us who have been with the hobby for a while to show to the new persons...or maybe even to the not-so-new persons...that there is a lot more to this hobby than simply playing games. We need to mentor, encourage, and even prod. We need to say: "It's ok that you don't instantly have the 'Mega-Army-of-Doom!' Most of the fun is getting there!"
Game companies can help, by tailoring scenarios and army lists to "starter" players rather than posting army lists of point sizes that look incredibly intimidating. That means downsizing. *gasp*
SST scenarios should start at the SQUAD level. Product releases should mirror these "starter" scenarios. A squad isn't that intimidating to assemble or paint.
In marketing parlance, that's known as "setting the hook." If you make the game/hobby enjoyable for new players, then you've got a customer base to draw from for more and more product! Simple.
MORE FLUFF!!! Oh wait. That's for another thread.
Regards.
To say that there's a shift going on is correct; however, I do not agree that it is a long-term or permanent shift. I think it's more akin to a temporary cultural phenomenon...or a "blip."
People have ALWAYS been lazy...that's our nature. Technology has allowed that inherent laziness to really rear its ugly head in recent years. "Instant gratification" seems to be the expectation now, but there are all kinds of signs that people are actually becoming bored with having things simply handed to them.
Companies exist to make money, and in order to do that they have to give consumers what they want. That often means that companies must chase "fads." The really astute companies look in the longer term, and don't spend huge amounts of capital for short-term returns: they recognize that consumers are pretty fickle. The Atkins Diet is a perfect example: many companies jumped on the low-carb bandwagon, but Atkins is pretty much dead as fried chicken now, and those companies that put too much effort (and treasure) into chasing the low-carb fad are now posting losses and yet again revising their product lines.
I've said it before ad nauseum, and I'll say it again: the pre-paint idea is a fad. Personally, I've been wargaming for 30+ years now, and many of the other long-term posters on this forum have even more time in the hobby! What has kept us around for so long?
It's the HOBBY part of this thing called wargaming. It's the idea of doing something unique, creating something that is yours and yours alone. We're not all Master painters. But there is still some satisfaction when you put an army on the table that you had to build and paint. Even if it looks like sh*t compared to your opponent, Mr. Pretty Boy. I don't know about everybody else, but when I run into one of those smug, "I can paint like God" crowd, that just makes me that more determined to knock their d*ck in the dirt.
If we descend to pre-paints, then why not go one step farther and just play chess? White pieces. Black pieces. That's all. Nobody has to paint or assemble squat, and we're all equal. And I'm NOT knocking chess: I'm actually in awe of people that can play it.
The most gratifying example I've had of late that shows that ideas are changing was when I took several members of my Wargames Club to the FLGS. These are 15-16-17 year old boys. Not ONE of them even looked at any of the pre-paints from various companies. They wanted FoW, they wanted to build and paint, and they are still worrying the sh*t out of me for tips, techniques, etc. One even had balls enough to ask to borrow my Iwata airbrush!!!! :shock: After the beating, he learned an important life lesson: some questions you just don't ask. :lol:
I will reluctantly admit that pre-paints will be around for a while. I DO NOT believe that they are the "future" however. I really think it's incumbent upon ALL of us who have been with the hobby for a while to show to the new persons...or maybe even to the not-so-new persons...that there is a lot more to this hobby than simply playing games. We need to mentor, encourage, and even prod. We need to say: "It's ok that you don't instantly have the 'Mega-Army-of-Doom!' Most of the fun is getting there!"
Game companies can help, by tailoring scenarios and army lists to "starter" players rather than posting army lists of point sizes that look incredibly intimidating. That means downsizing. *gasp*
SST scenarios should start at the SQUAD level. Product releases should mirror these "starter" scenarios. A squad isn't that intimidating to assemble or paint.
In marketing parlance, that's known as "setting the hook." If you make the game/hobby enjoyable for new players, then you've got a customer base to draw from for more and more product! Simple.
MORE FLUFF!!! Oh wait. That's for another thread.
Regards.
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
Scipio - I like fried chicken . . . . . .
Its funny, but FOW REALLY is the exception that proves the rule.
It requires a lot of effort on the part of the gamer collector, quite refreshing considering how popular skirmish Wargames are these days.
Its funny, but FOW REALLY is the exception that proves the rule.
It requires a lot of effort on the part of the gamer collector, quite refreshing considering how popular skirmish Wargames are these days.
Thanks for the bit of exposition there, Lieutenant Rasczak, as it helped me "get" your comment.
Scipio makes sense. I'm one of those "old fogies" with about 30 years in the hobby, too :wink:. I've always likened the war-gaming hobby to that of the model railroad hobby. In fact, when my computer customers come into my store and see my war-gaming scenics laying about, I describe what I do as something similar to model railroading, but without the railroad :roll:.
When they see my painted figures, I say "chess pieces" and people understand. I tell them that not unlike model railroading, a lot of the enjoyment is in "the journey" as much as it is in the "destination", possibly even more. I actually describe my assembly and painting of figures and of my terrain to my customers as "therapy" for my daily stress of removing viruses and doing other repair work on computers.
I've seen the pre-painted "trend" in plastic styrene kits as well. I wince when I see those pre-painted "model kits" that don't need any of the steps that I used to take in hundreds of kits that I went through over the years. Someone else has already made it for you, so you can just snap it together and hang it from the ceiling. I suppose next they will already have the string attached, in the box. :roll:
Scipio is quite correct in highlighting the "lazy" factor in our modern world. Fast food instead of home cooking, TIVO instead of watching a show normally (I don't though), 24 hour news, instant coffee (again, not me!), cell phones, etc. etc. Ad nauseam. It's the world we live in. It's called...
Instant Gratification.
Thus, my new term for pre-painted models will be a combination of these two words- INstant GRATifiEdS. I'll admit to blasphemy and say that I already own quite a bit of Battlefield: Evolution pieces. I just focus upon my terrain now for my "fix".
There is no slight intended by me towards Mongoose in this play on words. If it turns out that their sales go up as a result of their decision to go pre-paints, then cu-does is warranted for their cahones in this. :wink:
Scipio makes sense. I'm one of those "old fogies" with about 30 years in the hobby, too :wink:. I've always likened the war-gaming hobby to that of the model railroad hobby. In fact, when my computer customers come into my store and see my war-gaming scenics laying about, I describe what I do as something similar to model railroading, but without the railroad :roll:.
When they see my painted figures, I say "chess pieces" and people understand. I tell them that not unlike model railroading, a lot of the enjoyment is in "the journey" as much as it is in the "destination", possibly even more. I actually describe my assembly and painting of figures and of my terrain to my customers as "therapy" for my daily stress of removing viruses and doing other repair work on computers.
I've seen the pre-painted "trend" in plastic styrene kits as well. I wince when I see those pre-painted "model kits" that don't need any of the steps that I used to take in hundreds of kits that I went through over the years. Someone else has already made it for you, so you can just snap it together and hang it from the ceiling. I suppose next they will already have the string attached, in the box. :roll:
Scipio is quite correct in highlighting the "lazy" factor in our modern world. Fast food instead of home cooking, TIVO instead of watching a show normally (I don't though), 24 hour news, instant coffee (again, not me!), cell phones, etc. etc. Ad nauseam. It's the world we live in. It's called...
Instant Gratification.
Thus, my new term for pre-painted models will be a combination of these two words- INstant GRATifiEdS. I'll admit to blasphemy and say that I already own quite a bit of Battlefield: Evolution pieces. I just focus upon my terrain now for my "fix".
There is no slight intended by me towards Mongoose in this play on words. If it turns out that their sales go up as a result of their decision to go pre-paints, then cu-does is warranted for their cahones in this. :wink:
I say no to Pre-Paint, I really don´t like the thought of it. I would prefer to paint it by myself, a few selected pieces okay, I could live with that.For example, a miniature of Johny Rico in a nice pose, something like a showcase model...
Sorry my English isn´t that good. I really don´t talk or write in English often.
Sorry my English isn´t that good. I really don´t talk or write in English often.
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
I think your English is very good, better than my German Lol!Tzeentch said:I say no to Pre-Paint, I really don´t like the thought of it. I would prefer to paint it by myself, a few selected pieces okay, I could live with that.For example, a miniature of Johny Rico in a nice pose, something like a showcase model...
Sorry my English isn´t that good. I really don´t talk or write in English often.
